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Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut





Reading through the rules from both the rule book and gang war 1, I see some inconsistencies. Also the rule book is very chaotic and insufficiently edited. Actions are all over, they insist on having the "Advanced" section which will always and forever be part of the core rules.

But over to the first problem:

Lasgun is listed as Short Range 16" in the rule book and 18" in Gang War 1. Which takes precedence?
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







I'll tell you that if you tell me what a Scare Gas Grenade does.

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Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut





Hehe what a mess!

How about this one:

Plasma/Stub combi pistol has Combi and Pistol Traits for the Stub gun.

But Stub gun as an individual weapon (not combi) has Pistol and Plentiful.

Stub gun loses Plentiful when combined (with plasma)?
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Maryland, USA

It might very well use special ammunition that doesn't IMMEDIATELY COOK OFF when a portable sun-launcher is discharged directly above it

M.

Codex: Soyuzki - A fluffy guidebook to my Astra Militarum subfaction. Now version 0.6!
Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels. -pismakron
Sometimes a little murder is necessary in this hobby. -necrontyrOG

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
 
   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

Baxx wrote:
Hehe what a mess!

How about this one:

Plasma/Stub combi pistol has Combi and Pistol Traits for the Stub gun.

But Stub gun as an individual weapon (not combi) has Pistol and Plentiful.

Stub gun loses Plentiful when combined (with plasma)?


No that's one's right IIRC - they reason it as both parts of a combiweapon have to be miniaturised to some extent to fit together, so ammo capacity suffers.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






.. and they're more difficult to reload, more prone to jamming, etc.

On Warhammer TV last week, Andy Hoare said there's an FAQ coming soon to correct these errors. Until then, decide amongst your friends how to go. Personally I'd go with the rules in Gang War if there's a discrepancy, but do what you like.
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut





What's up with Brute Cleaver having +1 to hit on Long range? Can you throw it? Description says it's a primitive weapon... doesn't sound like anything that should grant extra accuracy.
   
Made in at
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot





Most melee weapons have a long range of E - that is, engaged. Ie, if youre engaged, you get the modifier.
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut





Except not a single other weapon got hit modifier in close combat.

"A weapon every bit as brutal and crude as those wrought on the many primitive and feudal worlds of the Imperium, these heavy, bladed weapons have found a place among the bitter close quarter battles fought between hive gangs. Usually turned out by black market machine shops, brute axes are made from the heaviest scrap available, with heads sharpened to a wicked edge and often including a bill-hook for snagging enemies. With enough muscle behind them, these axes can cleave through armour, meat and bone aline."

If there were a single weapon to get a hit bonus, you reckon this would be it?
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







Baxx wrote:
Except not a single other weapon got hit modifier in close combat.


Flail. Sword. Stiletto Knife. And two-handed weapon has a -1. It's used consistently enough that it's obviously intended. They're just being really daft buggers with formatting. Would it kill them to have a melee profile line with only entries that are relevant to melee weapons?

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Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut





Thanks, you're right!

Talk about 'Two-handed weapon', that's an error right there. Two hands, no Strength bonus, only Unwieldy and -1 to hit! A knife is better in all regards? And even cheaper?!?

Autogun - Gangs Of Legend: Short range 8", rulebook and Gang war 1? 9".

Boltgun AP - or -1? D 1 or 2? Ammo 6+ or 4+?
Autopistol Ammo 3+ or 4+?

Looks like someone slapped together something here in a hurry and with complete disregard to detail and consistency.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/12/12 18:23:31


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






The different boltgun stats are not errors. They're done that way so that the legacy gangs don't overpower Goliath and Escher gangs built using the rules from Gang War.

Bear in mind that the only boltgun available to Goliaths and Escher is the Escher combi-weapon - that may have a 4+ ammo roll, but you need to re-roll successful ammo rolls, so the probability of success goes from 0.5 to 0.25; much more like a 6+

The 2-handed weapon does look poor at first glance and probably is an error. I can't actually think of any existing Van Saar, Orlock, Delaque or Cawdor models armed with a 2-handed weapon anyway.

Have you contacted GW about these?

The range bands seem pretty clear to me, and I don't understand the problem.

All weapons have a Long Range; for some that's E for Engaged. Not every weapon has a Short Range - only those where the accuracy changes depending on the range.
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Maryland, USA

Were boltguns faction limited like that in the past? I seem to remember them being rare market items.

Codex: Soyuzki - A fluffy guidebook to my Astra Militarum subfaction. Now version 0.6!
Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels. -pismakron
Sometimes a little murder is necessary in this hobby. -necrontyrOG

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
 
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut





In the past you had a limited list you could buy, and the leader had a wider selection. Also the leader could automatically buy one weapon not available to the gang after each game.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Originally, boltguns were available to everyone.

In the 2nd edition, they introduced the "House weapon lists"; a gang could only freely buy common weapons from their list. Common weapons not on the list required you to give up one of your rare trade rolls to buy them.

In this edition, these weapons will be added to the trading post in time, but not at the moment. I believe I misspoke; some weapons (like the Goliath rivet cannon or the Escher chem-thrower), are faction-restricted; they're only on those gangs' equipment lists. Others might appear both on the trading post list and in the gang equipment lists. In that case, this means some gangs have better access to these weapons, but any gang can use one if they can get one. the bolter-needler and stub-plasma pistol call into this category.
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







If you capture a ganger with restricted weapons, kill them and nick their stuff, can you use the weapons even if you don't run the same faction?

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
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Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I guess so, as that's not buying it.

   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut





So weapons are not only limited depending on gang, have different price depending on gang, but now also different stats depending on gang!

I'm fine with the different prices and limited availability. What is just stupid game design by GW is having multiple weapon profiles for the same weapon!

"I'm firing with a boltgun"
"Wait, is that a rulebook boltgun, gangwar boltgun or pdf boltgun?"
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

Ammo stats probably work based on the stock the gang has access to. Some gangs have piles of bolter clips, so the stat is better.
And better training to get the best out of a weapon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/12 16:10:20


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Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut





 AndrewGPaul wrote:
The different boltgun stats are not errors. They're done that way so that the legacy gangs don't overpower Goliath and Escher gangs built using the rules from Gang War.

Bear in mind that the only boltgun available to Goliaths and Escher is the Escher combi-weapon - that may have a 4+ ammo roll, but you need to re-roll successful ammo rolls, so the probability of success goes from 0.5 to 0.25; much more like a 6+


The Goliath/Escher boltgun (in Escher combi-weapon) have Ammo 6+. The legends pdf boltgun have 4+ ammo...

If two weapons with the same name have different stats and different costs, they're not really the same weapon are they?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/12 19:36:55


 
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







 Flinty wrote:
If you capture a ganger with restricted weapons, kill them and nick their stuff, can you use the weapons even if you don't run the same faction?


None of that. You can play Rescue, trade him back or sell him for half his worth.

I suppose in theory you could demand a restricted weapon in trade for a captive.

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40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

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Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Maryland, USA

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Originally, boltguns were available to everyone.

In the 2nd edition, they introduced the "House weapon lists"; a gang could only freely buy common weapons from their list. Common weapons not on the list required you to give up one of your rare trade rolls to buy them.

In this edition, these weapons will be added to the trading post in time, but not at the moment. I believe I misspoke; some weapons (like the Goliath rivet cannon or the Escher chem-thrower), are faction-restricted; they're only on those gangs' equipment lists. Others might appear both on the trading post list and in the gang equipment lists. In that case, this means some gangs have better access to these weapons, but any gang can use one if they can get one. the bolter-needler and stub-plasma pistol call into this category.


Hm, I am close to talking out of my , I think - I did not know there ever even was a "Second Edition" - which, I suspect, was the one I was familiar with the entire time. So I suppose we're on 3rd Edition?

I suppose I should go look these things up - there's PDFs of the old rules out there somewhere still - but not really relevant anymore

I do hope things aren't locked down too much; I did like some stuff being hard-to-get, though.


Codex: Soyuzki - A fluffy guidebook to my Astra Militarum subfaction. Now version 0.6!
Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels. -pismakron
Sometimes a little murder is necessary in this hobby. -necrontyrOG

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







1st edition was the amazing boxed set, which was expanded by Outlanders. 2nd edition, as far as I'm aware, was just a softback rules update to bring the rules a bit more into line with the then current 40k mechanics as well as fiddle with things a bit. Then it went Specialist games only and there was probably some community footling.

Am I missing anything major?

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







2nd edition was under Jervis Johnson's SG circa 2004 and saw about half a dozen gangs resculpted, too. Mostly the rules did away with OOP play aids, like the sustained fire dice and any templates other than the basic 40k 3" blast, 5" blast and 8" flamer.

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Made in us
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Maryland, USA

Alright, sounds like I only ever saw 2e. Curiously I don't think any of the communities I frequented referenced editions at the time; it wouldn't have been long after 2004, either.

Codex: Soyuzki - A fluffy guidebook to my Astra Militarum subfaction. Now version 0.6!
Another way would be to simply slide the landraider sideways like a big slowed hovercraft full of eels. -pismakron
Sometimes a little murder is necessary in this hobby. -necrontyrOG

Out-of-the-loop from November 2010 - November 2017 so please excuse my ignorance!
 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

That's because calling it a new 'edition' would be a bit of a stretch. An updated reprint would be better.

 Flinty wrote:
... was just a softback rules update to bring the rules a bit more into line with the then current 40k mechanics as well as fiddle with things a bit....
It certainly added a few things (like House weapon lists), but for the most part the rules were a copypaste of the original rulebook, including all that book's errors.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/13 01:32:59


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'll tell you that if you tell me what a Scare Gas Grenade does.

The real question is how much does it (along with Photon and Smoke) cost?

BTW, I can't seem to find the stats for the club/hammer/maul even though you can pick one up at the Trading Post for 5 credits.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/13 06:44:58


 
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







 Breotan wrote:

BTW, I can't seem to find the stats for the club/hammer/maul even though you can pick one up at the Trading Post for 5 credits.



Those are hiding out in the Legacy pdf!

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40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

How does one purchase a Sawn-Off Shotgun? It's in there, on page 32, but I cannot find a price for it.

And it's weird that the Stub Cannon isn't in the armoury on 32.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

Honestly I wouldn't expect any of these kinds of issues to get fixed going forward, on the stream the other day Andy seemed perfectly happy with "meh, everything's in one of the books we've published somewhere"(obviously I'm paraphrasing) as a response to "why isn't this or that in the rulebook/legacy/GW1 as well" type questions.

Which is exactly why I won't be spending a penny on the new rules until they collect everything into a single volume.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
 
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