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I've been a bit curious about various Honor Guards throughout the lore recently and found that almost every legion has its own. However, I really don't know much about them, save for some limited knowledge about the Sehkmet for the Thousand Sons and what I'm starting to learn about the Justaerin Terminators for the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus from the first few Horus Heresy novels.

What are the various Honor Guard units of the other legions, what are they like in the lore, and how/what do they do on the Tabletop?

The Death Guard have the Deathshroud Terminators, the personal bodyguards of Mortarion. The members of the Deathshroud had their official records changed to "KIA" upon their induction as Mortys BFFs. They were everything our introverted, scythe-loving, people-hating, psycher-smiting primarch wanted in a group of best friends. They never spoke, always wore their armor, carried giant scythes, and while not adept at murdering psychers, they could suffice in a pinch. They were really uncharismatic but that wasn't important, all that mattered was protecting Mr. Grumpy Pants and keeping him out of trouble.

On the tabletop, they are generally fairly impactful when I run them. Their minimum squad size is 2 with the maximum at 10. They can be taken as either Elites or HQs, which allows a bit more list flexibility at higher point levels. They carry their S+1, I-1, AP2 scythes which tear through most infantry with ease, while remaining hard to kill themselves with their 2 wounds per model. They can take melta bombs to deal with vehicles and all come stock with handflamers to make them a bit better at taking charges or for softening up enemies before you charge them. Chem Munitions can give them Shred on their flamers for free, but at the expense of gaining the Gets Hot rule. Generally worth the tradeoff IMHO.

The Salamanders have Firedrakes, which make for a solid (if incredibly expensive) deathstar unit. Two Wounds, storm shields, and thunderhammers make them pretty scary deathstar-duel units; I've found them a terrifying hammer capable of smashing through most anything you park in their way, but expensive enough that they may find there isn't a target that it's worth using them to kill.

Emperor's Children have the Phoenix Guard, whose effectiveness is pretty much entirely dependent on whether you get the charge off or not. If you get the charge and you're packing Sonic Shriekers to get the to-hit edge back from enemy WS5 units you're throwing S5/AP2 attacks at I6 hitting on 3+, if you get charged you've got a batch of expensive Tartaros Terminators with power swords.

The Imperial Fists have Templar Brethren, who aren't great at deathstar fights (given their lack of AP2 melee and their weak Invulnerable saves), but who serve as a solid linebreaker in power-armoured fights with 2+ armour, power swords, and WS5 to batter through normal melee squads. If you're getting into a deathstar fight better to put storm shields on a generic Terminator squad.

The Iron Hands have Gorgon Terminators, who serve mostly as a normal Terminator squad, except that I3 makes the trade-off between striking at Initiative and taking an Unwieldy weapon an irrelevant choice, and they've got access to graviton. They're basically standard Terminators only a bit tougher.

Ultramarines have Invictarii, who are cheaper than Terminators as a full squad but have most of the stats (minus the combi-bolters), AP2 at Initiative, the ability to intercept Challenges, and serve as a Ld buff bubble. They have the general properties of Ultramarines in that they're not tremendously impressive in a vacuum but when used in conjunction with other units (as character bodyguards, with Logos Lectora and Interlocking Tactics to give them better movement and/or counter-attack, with Auxilia blobs to make them less vulnerable to Leadership...) they do a lot more.

Deathshrouds are well-covered above, though I will add if you don't mind being ahistorical with them using Morturg to make them Infiltrate and give them Endurance is a funny troll move.

I don't really like Justaerin given how little they do over normal Terminators; they're a basic Terminator squad with slightly different options, an extra Wound, and WS5 for 10pts/model over normal Terminators. They do give you some extra Rite flexbility in a Terminator army since Horus lets you bring them as Troops without needing Pride of the Legion.

Lernean Terminators from the Alpha Legion have basically the same issues as Justaerin; they're cool, but they don't really improve on what a standard Terminator squad does. They have WS5 at a relatively reasonable price and the conversion beamer is a weirdly flexible tool (since it lets them contribute while parked on an objective despite the 15" range on their volkite weapons, but when they're moving around it's still a S6 blast weapon at worst), but I'd still take normal Terminators most of the time.

Varagyr have a Strength edge over normal Terminators from the frost weapons; they're expensive but you can stack charge buffs onto them to get five S6/AP2 attacks each on the charge. I haven't done much analysis on them and I haven't seen them on the table, but they definitely look cool at first glance.

Iron Warriors, Night Lords, World Eaters, Word Bearers, and Raven Guard don't really have anything that fills the traditional "honour guard" role (their unique units are forlorn-hope suicide units, outriders, special forces, or otherwise not really centrally placed in their order of battle), and there aren't rules for whatever the Dark Angels, White Scars, and Blood Angels use at the moment.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Varagyr have a Strength edge over normal Terminators from the frost weapons; they're expensive but you can stack charge buffs onto them to get five S6/AP2 attacks each on the charge. I haven't done much analysis on them and I haven't seen them on the table, but they definitely look cool at first glance.

I can expand on the varagyr a bit more as a player of the VIth.
Varagyr are cataphratii terminators that come with free frost weapons, they have to option to upgrade to power fists and chain fists for next to nothing which is worth doing as their frost axes are worse versions of power fists and they are even more overpriced than normal if you take frost swords/claws (I would argue they should actually cost less if you take the swords/claws). They are horrendously overpriced to boot, costing about 50pts or so more than a regular terminator squad and only gaining an extra wound on the sergeant and hammer of wrath if they charge from more than 6" away in return. In general they are probably the worst legion specific terminators in the game, a regular terminator squad would serve you far better.

In contrast the sekhmet terminators of the thousand sons are probably the best terminators in the game and are criminally undercosted (costing far, far less than varagyr) for what they bring to the table. They can take either cataphractii armour or tartarus armour, each have two wounds, are able to cast psychic powers to further buff themselves or throw out more hurt (they can buff themselves to gain +1 to their invul) and come stock with power swords iirc but can upgrade to power axes.

 AnomanderRake wrote:


Iron Warriors, Night Lords, World Eaters, Word Bearers, and Raven Guard don't really have anything that fills the traditional "honour guard" role (their unique units are forlorn-hope suicide units, outriders, special forces, or otherwise not really centrally placed in their order of battle), and there aren't rules for whatever the Dark Angels, White Scars, and Blood Angels use at the moment.

I'm taking issue here with the blatant Iron Circle erasure, Big-ass battle automata with Grav-hammers, interlocking shields and Olympia bolt-cannons. What is not to like about them?

The 12th aren't fond of the formalities the other legions are. The only Honor Guard the 12th need is to be surrounded by brothers with chain axes. Even then they're not particularly fond of honor and much more fussed about getting the nails firing.

Dark Angels - Either Deathwing or the Paladins. No in game stats, but they carry powered longblades and blast shields.
Emperor's Children - The Phoenix Guard.
Iron Warriors - The Iron Circle. Big robots with hammers and shields.
White Scars - The Keshig. Terminators, but we don't know their in-game stats.
Space Wolves - Wolf Guard. Probably just use the stats for the Varagyr Terminators.
Imperial Fists - Both the Templar Brethren, and Huscarl Terminators. No in-game stats for the Huscarls.
Night Lords - The Atramentar. No in-game stats for them.
Blood Angels - Sanguinary Guard. No 30k stats for them.
Iron Hands - The Morlocks. Probably should use Gorgon Terminator stats in game.
World Eaters - By formality, the Devourers. However, they were looked down upon in the Legion, because they didn't believe Angron needed a retinue. Would probably use Red Butchers stats.
Ultramarines - Invictarii Suzerains.
Death Guard - Deathshroud Terminators.
Thousand Sons - Sekhmet Terminators.
Sons of Horus - Justaerin Temrinators, and later in the Heresy, the Luperci. Basically the Sons version of the Gal Vorbak.
Word Bearers - Probably the Gal Vorbak.
Salamanders - The Pyre Guard. Use the rules for Firedrakes.
Raven Guard - The Shadow Wardens. No in-game stats.
Alpha Legion - The Laernan Terminators.

I don't have much experience of them in game, but these are all the honour guards for the Legions.

 Glasdir wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Varagyr have a Strength edge over normal Terminators from the frost weapons; they're expensive but you can stack charge buffs onto them to get five S6/AP2 attacks each on the charge. I haven't done much analysis on them and I haven't seen them on the table, but they definitely look cool at first glance.

I can expand on the varagyr a bit more as a player of the VIth.
Varagyr are cataphratii terminators that come with free frost weapons, they have to option to upgrade to power fists and chain fists for next to nothing which is worth doing as their frost axes are worse versions of power fists and they are even more overpriced than normal if you take frost swords/claws (I would argue they should actually cost less if you take the swords/claws). They are horrendously overpriced to boot, costing about 50pts or so more than a regular terminator squad and only gaining an extra wound on the sergeant and hammer of wrath if they charge from more than 6" away in return. In general they are probably the worst legion specific terminators in the game, a regular terminator squad would serve you far better.

In contrast the sekhmet terminators of the thousand sons are probably the best terminators in the game and are criminally undercosted (costing far, far less than varagyr) for what they bring to the table. They can take either cataphractii armour or tartarus armour, each have two wounds, are able to cast psychic powers to further buff themselves or throw out more hurt (they can buff themselves to gain +1 to their invul) and come stock with power swords iirc but can upgrade to power axes.

As a Thousand Sons player, I agree with you. You got so shafted that its just not funny. At the very least you should have all 2 wound terminators and a cost reduction.

 AnomanderRake wrote:


The Imperial Fists have Templar Brethren, who aren't great at deathstar fights (given their lack of AP2 melee and their weak Invulnerable saves), but who serve as a solid linebreaker in power-armoured fights with 2+ armour, power swords, and WS5 to batter through normal melee squads. If you're getting into a deathstar fight better to put storm shields on a generic Terminator squad.

Rogal dorn's bodyguard were the huscarls, and of course the honour guard was the primarchs bodyguards, the Templar bretheren where an elite unit, but not the honour guard.

LunaWolvesLoyalist wrote:

 Glasdir wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Varagyr have a Strength edge over normal Terminators from the frost weapons; they're expensive but you can stack charge buffs onto them to get five S6/AP2 attacks each on the charge. I haven't done much analysis on them and I haven't seen them on the table, but they definitely look cool at first glance.

I can expand on the varagyr a bit more as a player of the VIth.
Varagyr are cataphratii terminators that come with free frost weapons, they have to option to upgrade to power fists and chain fists for next to nothing which is worth doing as their frost axes are worse versions of power fists and they are even more overpriced than normal if you take frost swords/claws (I would argue they should actually cost less if you take the swords/claws). They are horrendously overpriced to boot, costing about 50pts or so more than a regular terminator squad and only gaining an extra wound on the sergeant and hammer of wrath if they charge from more than 6" away in return. In general they are probably the worst legion specific terminators in the game, a regular terminator squad would serve you far better.

In contrast the sekhmet terminators of the thousand sons are probably the best terminators in the game and are criminally undercosted (costing far, far less than varagyr) for what they bring to the table. They can take either cataphractii armour or tartarus armour, each have two wounds, are able to cast psychic powers to further buff themselves or throw out more hurt (they can buff themselves to gain +1 to their invul) and come stock with power swords iirc but can upgrade to power axes.

As a Thousand Sons player, I agree with you. You got so shafted that its just not funny. At the very least you should have all 2 wound terminators and a cost reduction.

Book 7: Inferno is the worst HH book to date. It's full of omissions, contradictions, and lack of play testing. The Space Wolf Varagyr Terminators are the worst special terminators in the HH. They don't/can't benefit or use the Legion Space Wolf specific rules, the Frost Weapons are OK, but the one that would be the most useful (Great Frost Blade) they can't take. Their one heavy weapon is a Heavy Flamer or Reaper Autocannon. Shooting is limited to combi weapons. Their anti-armor is limited to P-fists and T-hammers. So they are a melee unit- but in Cataprhacti armor, so no running, and only one wound. They have no deep strike options outside of a couple RoW that Space Wolves won't take because they suck for the rest of the wolves. So they foot slog or require a transport.

The Space Wolves just... Forge World kinda dropped the ball on these guys. It's like these are the beta version of the army list and they just ran out of time to play test or optimize the list.

There were a lot of external factors going on in Forge World during the development of this book and it really, really shows. Just really sad, as the HH up to this point was really known for quality books and enjoyable armies/rules.

One of the really cool things I like about the Horus Heresy are all the special Legion units. They really add a lot of character to the Legions and I love the models Forge World has made to represent them so far. Some of their rules might not be the best, but its just something that really adds to a game of 30K. I always try to include at least one unit either Reavers or Justerian Terminators for my Sons of Horus.

 Tamwulf wrote:

LunaWolvesLoyalist wrote:

Spoiler:

 Glasdir wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Varagyr have a Strength edge over normal Terminators from the frost weapons; they're expensive but you can stack charge buffs onto them to get five S6/AP2 attacks each on the charge. I haven't done much analysis on them and I haven't seen them on the table, but they definitely look cool at first glance.

I can expand on the varagyr a bit more as a player of the VIth.
Varagyr are cataphratii terminators that come with free frost weapons, they have to option to upgrade to power fists and chain fists for next to nothing which is worth doing as their frost axes are worse versions of power fists and they are even more overpriced than normal if you take frost swords/claws (I would argue they should actually cost less if you take the swords/claws). They are horrendously overpriced to boot, costing about 50pts or so more than a regular terminator squad and only gaining an extra wound on the sergeant and hammer of wrath if they charge from more than 6" away in return. In general they are probably the worst legion specific terminators in the game, a regular terminator squad would serve you far better.

In contrast the sekhmet terminators of the thousand sons are probably the best terminators in the game and are criminally undercosted (costing far, far less than varagyr) for what they bring to the table. They can take either cataphractii armour or tartarus armour, each have two wounds, are able to cast psychic powers to further buff themselves or throw out more hurt (they can buff themselves to gain +1 to their invul) and come stock with power swords iirc but can upgrade to power axes.

As a Thousand Sons player, I agree with you. You got so shafted that its just not funny. At the very least you should have all 2 wound terminators and a cost reduction.

Book 7: Inferno is the worst HH book to date. It's full of omissions, contradictions, and lack of play testing. The Space Wolf Varagyr Terminators are the worst special terminators in the HH. They don't/can't benefit or use the Legion Space Wolf specific rules, the Frost Weapons are OK, but the one that would be the most useful (Great Frost Blade) they can't take. Their one heavy weapon is a Heavy Flamer or Reaper Autocannon. Shooting is limited to combi weapons. Their anti-armor is limited to P-fists and T-hammers. So they are a melee unit- but in Cataprhacti armor, so no running, and only one wound. They have no deep strike options outside of a couple RoW that Space Wolves won't take because they suck for the rest of the wolves. So they foot slog or require a transport.

The Space Wolves just... Forge World kinda dropped the ball on these guys. It's like these are the beta version of the army list and they just ran out of time to play test or optimize the list.

There were a lot of external factors going on in Forge World during the development of this book and it really, really shows. Just really sad, as the HH up to this point was really known for quality books and enjoyable armies/rules.

One of the really cool things I like about the Horus Heresy are all the special Legion units. They really add a lot of character to the Legions and I love the models Forge World has made to represent them so far. Some of their rules might not be the best, but its just something that really adds to a game of 30K. I always try to include at least one unit either Reavers or Justerian Terminators for my Sons of Horus.

I have no issue with the rest of the space wolves units and rules, I must admit that I think they are pretty good on the whole, but the varagyr are just pure garbage, I'm living in hope that they will revamp them when they add the inferno content to the red books.

Do we have any info about the red books ?

 godardc wrote:
Do we have any info about the red books ?

What do you mean? The Red Book Rule Book was supposed to be released by the end of this year, but there was apparently such a huge -up in the book that they destroyed all of 'em and are presently re-editing them and re-printing them in China. No ETA. I suspect sometime in March, as this is the holiday season, and the printer needs time to actually print the books, package them, and ship them to the UK... and there is Chinese New Year in February.

There has been no other news about any more Red Books besides the Red Rule Book. I doubt they will update the Legions or Army List book before Book 8: Angelus, which FW said 4th Quarter 2018... maybe. They are always late on those books, so I think we won't see book 8 until summer 2019. Looooooong time without anything new besides models for 30K...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Glasdir wrote:

I have no issue with the rest of the space wolves units and rules, I must admit that I think they are pretty good on the whole, but the varagyr are just pure garbage, I'm living in hope that they will revamp them when they add the inferno content to the red books.

I agree- to a point. The Grey Slayers are probably the best troops choice in 30K in terms of cost and equipment options. Combined with a Priest of Fenris, they are awesome. The Deathsworn are great too. The RoW for Space Wolves have too many drawbacks and not enough advantages. The Special Characters just don't feel special. Wish FW would have kept the Saga's from 6th edition for the Warlord traits. Finally, Russ himself. Wow, he is definitely in the top 3 for Primarchs in close combat, but fails miserably in supporting his own army. +1 LD is pretty meh when just about everyone takes a standard. Making the worst terminators in the game into a troops choice is Turning Veteran Tactical Squads into Troops is nice, but there is a very popular ROW that already does that. And that's it. No unique ROW, no "command squad" for him, just- mediocre army support but awesome in close combat. It just really feels like FW rushed the Space Wolves out. Maybe when the Legion Red Book gets updates (whenever that may be!), they'll get the fine tuning they deserve. The Thousand Sons were definitely the star of that book.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Dark Angels - Either Deathwing or the Paladins. No in game stats, but they carry powered longblades and blast shields.
Emperor's Children - The Phoenix Guard.
Iron Warriors - The Iron Circle. Big robots with hammers and shields.
White Scars - The Keshig. Terminators, but we don't know their in-game stats.
Space Wolves - Wolf Guard. Probably just use the stats for the Varagyr Terminators.
Imperial Fists - Both the Templar Brethren, and Huscarl Terminators. No in-game stats for the Huscarls.
Night Lords - The Atramentar. No in-game stats for them.
Blood Angels - Sanguinary Guard. No 30k stats for them.
Iron Hands - The Morlocks. Probably should use Gorgon Terminator stats in game.
World Eaters - By formality, the Devourers. However, they were looked down upon in the Legion, because they didn't believe Angron needed a retinue. Would probably use Red Butchers stats.
Ultramarines - Invictarii Suzerains.
Death Guard - Deathshroud Terminators.
Thousand Sons - Sekhmet Terminators.
Sons of Horus - Justaerin Temrinators, and later in the Heresy, the Luperci. Basically the Sons version of the Gal Vorbak.
Word Bearers - Probably the Gal Vorbak.
Salamanders - The Pyre Guard. Use the rules for Firedrakes.
Raven Guard - The Shadow Wardens. No in-game stats.
Alpha Legion - The Laernan Terminators.

I don't have much experience of them in game, but these are all the honour guards for the Legions.

The Word Bearers also had a terminator honour guard: The Anointed.

trindaros wrote:
The Word Bearers also had a terminator honour guard: The Anointed.

From what I can read, they look like a Post-Heresy formation, not a Pre/Mid-Heresy one. I may be wrong - where do they appear?

The Lernaean Terminators of the Alpha Legion are definitely not an honor-guard. They are a force unto themselves, generally sent into take and hold missions, or annihilation missions. Their infamy is due to there generally being few to no survivors who witness their deeds. Alpharius and Omegon don't really have an honor-guard. The concept is pretty anathema to the Alpha Legion way of waging war, which is to make it confusing where the leader of the army is, and for that position to change fluidly whenever an Alpha Legionnaire who is in charge is slain. Having an incredibly flashy unit of beefy badasses makes it pretty hard to hide where your leader is. Having your command structure centralized around the toughest soldiers you have, while sound tactically, is not a good way to achieve tactical flexibility: it gives your opponent a target.



As far as Honor Guard units, I feel that only the units with the rule "Favored of X" (which generally allows them to be taken instead of command squads) are actual honor guard. So Firedrakes, Justaerin, Invictarus Suzerains, Deathshroud, etc. Otherwise the "honor guard" of the Legion is represented in-game by the command squad entry. In fact, for many companies within the Legions, that is the case regardless. Not every company of the Luna Wolves or Sons of Horus is accompanied by Justaerin. Not every company of Ultramarines are accompanied by the Suzerains. In fact, that is the one thing that bothered me the most about Vengeful Spirit. The ridiculous numbers cited for the Justaerin. How can they be an "elite bodyguard" of the Legions "best of the best" when their numbers are in the hundreds and they can be thrown at an assault fifty at a time?

 Tamwulf wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Glasdir wrote:

I have no issue with the rest of the space wolves units and rules, I must admit that I think they are pretty good on the whole, but the varagyr are just pure garbage, I'm living in hope that they will revamp them when they add the inferno content to the red books.

I agree- to a point. The Grey Slayers are probably the best troops choice in 30K in terms of cost and equipment options. Combined with a Priest of Fenris, they are awesome. The Deathsworn are great too. The RoW for Space Wolves have too many drawbacks and not enough advantages. The Special Characters just don't feel special. Wish FW would have kept the Saga's from 6th edition for the Warlord traits. Finally, Russ himself. Wow, he is definitely in the top 3 for Primarchs in close combat, but fails miserably in supporting his own army. +1 LD is pretty meh when just about everyone takes a standard. Making the worst terminators in the game into a troops choice is Turning Veteran Tactical Squads into Troops is nice, but there is a very popular ROW that already does that. And that's it. No unique ROW, no "command squad" for him, just- mediocre army support but awesome in close combat. It just really feels like FW rushed the Space Wolves out. Maybe when the Legion Red Book gets updates (whenever that may be!), they'll get the fine tuning they deserve. The Thousand Sons were definitely the star of that book.

I dunno, I think they hit the nail on the head with russ' rules (especially after those frankly insulting stopgap rules that we got for about 4 months) in terms of fluff, he's just there to challenge the nastiest character the enemy has and kick their a*se (Horus included), as he should what with his track record and all. In the books he never comes across as being interested in giving orders and much prefers to lead from the front surrounded by his jarls and huscarls and single out foes he deems worthy to challenge. I think his rules capture that perfectly.

 Glasdir wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Glasdir wrote:

I have no issue with the rest of the space wolves units and rules, I must admit that I think they are pretty good on the whole, but the varagyr are just pure garbage, I'm living in hope that they will revamp them when they add the inferno content to the red books.

I agree- to a point. The Grey Slayers are probably the best troops choice in 30K in terms of cost and equipment options. Combined with a Priest of Fenris, they are awesome. The Deathsworn are great too. The RoW for Space Wolves have too many drawbacks and not enough advantages. The Special Characters just don't feel special. Wish FW would have kept the Saga's from 6th edition for the Warlord traits. Finally, Russ himself. Wow, he is definitely in the top 3 for Primarchs in close combat, but fails miserably in supporting his own army. +1 LD is pretty meh when just about everyone takes a standard. Making the worst terminators in the game into a troops choice is Turning Veteran Tactical Squads into Troops is nice, but there is a very popular ROW that already does that. And that's it. No unique ROW, no "command squad" for him, just- mediocre army support but awesome in close combat. It just really feels like FW rushed the Space Wolves out. Maybe when the Legion Red Book gets updates (whenever that may be!), they'll get the fine tuning they deserve. The Thousand Sons were definitely the star of that book.

I dunno, I think they hit the nail on the head with russ' rules (especially after those frankly insulting stopgap rules that we got for about 4 months) in terms of fluff, he's just there to challenge the nastiest character the enemy has and kick their a*se (Horus included), as he should what with his track record and all. In the books he never comes across as being interested in giving orders and much prefers to lead from the front surrounded by his jarls and huscarls and single out foes he deems worthy to challenge. I think his rules capture that perfectly.

In Betrayer Russ makes a pretty big point that he trusts his men, and makes opportunities for them. He hunts with his soldiers as a pack, not as a glory-hungry rush to the finish. Those are the Sons of Horus you're thinking of. And his track record is not actually that amazing... He lost his duel with Angron, even if he won the fight. In terms of in-game rules, Russ would wipe the floor with Angron. I disagree that his ability to simply annihilate opponents in challenges encapsulates his character. He's supposed to be the calming influence on the Space Wolves, the honing of their ferocity into true greatness. Instead he just smashes.

My Invictarii dont have two wounds, or my Fulmentarii.

Not all legion honor guard units or special terminators have two wounds...

 Crazyterran wrote:
My Invictarii dont have two wounds, or my Fulmentarii.

Not all legion honor guard units or special terminators have two wounds...

Which sucks- you pay a premium in points for these squads- at the very least, they should have two wounds. In the case of Terminators, that extra wound helps when you blow that 2+ from a bolter. In close combat... it depends. Vs. pFists and T-Hammers, that extra wound doesn't mean much thanks to instant death. Against anything else- it helps a lot.

Honor guard and special "named" Terminator units should have two wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kraytirous wrote:


In Betrayer Russ makes a pretty big point that he trusts his men, and makes opportunities for them. He hunts with his soldiers as a pack, not as a glory-hungry rush to the finish. Those are the Sons of Horus you're thinking of. And his track record is not actually that amazing... He lost his duel with Angron, even if he won the fight. In terms of in-game rules, Russ would wipe the floor with Angron. I disagree that his ability to simply annihilate opponents in challenges encapsulates his character. He's supposed to be the calming influence on the Space Wolves, the honing of their ferocity into true greatness. Instead he just smashes.

If I am reading what you are saying- the Russ in Book VII is portrayed as more of a coach then a Primarch for the Space Wolves, but his rules don't reflect that. His rules don't really do anything for the Space Wolves at all, but his combat prowess in close combat ranks him near the top of Primarch vs. Primarch.

This just reinforces the argument that the Space Wolves were finished in haste and with no clear design template for book VII.