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Hey guys, just checking if I have missed anything here. The only means of attacking/getting into melee is Charging, which is a double action; but grants a free attack once engaged. After attacker is resolved the other model(s) are granted a reaction attack (which appears to be just the single action fight).

If a Escher gang member has a Stiletto knife, and Chem-Synth is she only able to synthesize (action:basic) on her second turn? Or am I missing something? With the synthesize poison ability only lasting until activation is over does that mean It can never be used offensively?

How/what I mean is: due to the only method of attacking/getting into melee is to double action charge, there is no way for an Escher to activate her poison before she attacks as both her actions are used to charge. Meaning she would have to wait for next rounds activation, (pass a cool check) then perform two basic actions: activate poison and then basic action fight. It also does not seem to be able to be used defensively either: such as synthesize poison and then do other action, with the foresight you might get charged. But this will not benfit either because the poison effect wears off as soon as her activation ends. Is this correct and as intended?

I do know the ability still has use with the Chem thrower, but I feel like I am missing something as it seems like the rules were trying to allow it to be useful in melee. Am I misinterpreting activation in the Chem-Syth description? Does it actually mean until next turn as in a full cycle of both players activations are done, or does it stop as soon as the models turn (activation) is over?

Anoher question I have is about melee. If a model is pinned, it has the prone status, which means it has no facing. If a pinned model is charged, it automatically gets up and will recive a reaction if it survives the charge attacks, but for this reaction, does the defending pinned model count as having rotated or is it given? In the fight phase you can only attack whats in your firing arc, and if you must turn to fight, you take the -1 penalty to hit. This is obvious when fighting normally but is the pinned model, which is forced to stand and given the reaction suffering the -1 to hit back or is it ignored, since prone have no facing?

A pinned model stands up when charged. This happens as soon as contact is made, before you carry out attacks. So unless you decide to stand up and face away from the attacker, then there'll be no penalty for being attacked from behind.

And yes; no using the Chem-Synth in a turn when you charge.

Yeah, RAW chem synth is pretty useless atm. Were houseruling it as lasting until the first attack you make with the poisoned weapon, but still... RAW you would always at least have to survive a reaction to use it in melee. And considering most other gangs are going to be Goliaths, good luck with that...

Useless in melee; not so much when it comes to chucking choke grenades or using the chem-sprayer.

This Chem-Synth stuff is just atrociously bad. It is bad for all the above mentioned rule reasons but also for it´s description.

You can only apply this poison on weapons with the Gas & Toxin trait and the name for the actual action is called Synthesise Poison (Basic). I know this is science fiction but you can only synthesize chemical compounds in a lab which is a lengthy and complicated process. The wording is counter-intuitive. Why not Use/Apply Poison (Basic)? And why would you want to apply poison to a blade which is already affected by poison (Toxin trait)?
And now comes the fun part. A ganger is going to throw a Choke gas grenade and in order to make it even more lethal she injects the grenade with a bit of poison? Just stupid! Last but not least comes the Chem-thrower. This weapon already fires some sort of deadly nerve gas. Nerve gas! And you want to make it even more deadly than it already is by applying a small amount of poison into the gas tank... Gimme a break. It would have made sense, if you could apply poison to your combat knives. Alas, there is no option for it.

It seems to me that someone wrote the rules for Chem-Synth who has never tried them in an actual game which is a pity. Thanks GW for ruining the trademark weapons from one of my favoured gangs. I hope you do better when the Redemptionists arrive in the Underhive.

This is just a part of the Escher rules being bungled. They're supposed to be a melee gang that relies on poison weapons, but as written their weapons are just terrible. Toxin weapons are mostly a liability in CC, yet cost more than normal weapons. And as, noted, you really cannon use chem-synth in melee.

Thing i found weird is how the rules for the chemsynth state that the weapon is poisoned after using, though there is no status, condition or whatsoever called poison... or did i like miss something? Is there an additional effect due to this? Only thing which is sort of in line in terms of meaning is toxic... but thats toxic not poison. Somebody pls enlighten me

"poisoned" isn't a state in itself. It's just a name for the effect of the Chem-synth - the penalty to the target's Toughness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Strg Alt wrote:
This Chem-Synth stuff is just atrociously bad. It is bad for all the above mentioned rule reasons but also for it´s description.

You can only apply this poison on weapons with the Gas & Toxin trait and the name for the actual action is called Synthesise Poison (Basic). I know this is science fiction but you can only synthesize chemical compounds in a lab which is a lengthy and complicated process. The wording is counter-intuitive. Why not Use/Apply Poison (Basic)? And why would you want to apply poison to a blade which is already affected by poison (Toxin trait)?
And now comes the fun part. A ganger is going to throw a Choke gas grenade and in order to make it even more lethal she injects the grenade with a bit of poison? Just stupid! Last but not least comes the Chem-thrower. This weapon already fires some sort of deadly nerve gas. Nerve gas! And you want to make it even more deadly than it already is by applying a small amount of poison into the gas tank... Gimme a break. It would have made sense, if you could apply poison to your combat knives. Alas, there is no option for it.

It seems to me that someone wrote the rules for Chem-Synth who has never tried them in an actual game which is a pity. Thanks GW for ruining the trademark weapons from one of my favoured gangs. I hope you do better when the Redemptionists arrive in the Underhive.

You're reading far too much into the fluff. Mixing two precursors to create a third toxic chemical is "synthesis", and you can do that in seconds with a pair of test tubes. Add some magic future technology, and it seems fine to me.

So I finally figured out how to use Chem-synth. Tactics cards and some other shenanigans. It's not capable with just a mook fighter, but using skills and tactics cards can allow you to use it in melee/before you charge.

I think that is a poor design choice, as I feel like since its the factions calling card, it should be easily available but at least its doable.

I disagree; it feels to me like the main use is for powering up ranged weapons - if you're in a good spot for a shot, you have a choice between improving accuracy (Aim) or damage (Synthesise poison).

You quite often get to choose your Tactics cards anyway, so you're not at the mercy of the shuffle.