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Sorry this question has probably been answered like a million times but I’m just getting back into 40k lol. If an ap values makes the armour save worse than 6+ do you still get a save or does it ignore armour. For example if a ap-5 weapon wounded a model with a 5+ armour save would it completely ignore the armour??? Thanks guys

If the AP makes it impossible to roll the result on a D6 then it ignores armor.

p5freak wrote:
If the AP makes it impossible to roll the result on a D6 then it ignores armor.

Technically incorrect. You have an armour save, it's just an armour save you might not be able to make on a D6. Positive modifiers might cancel out negative ones.

Example: You have a 5+ save, and are hit with an AP-2 weapon. Normally you'd need to roll a 5+ on a D6-2, which would normally give a result range of 1-4 (since anything less than 1 counts as 1), which means you can't possibly pass the save.

However if you were in cover, giving you a +1, you'd have to pass a 5+ on a D6-2+1, which gives a result range of 1-5, so it's possible to pass.

There is an important lesson here that even the best of us forget, the modifiers alter the DICE ROLL, not the characteristic. A model with a 5+ armour save that is hit with a AP-1 weapon still has to make a 5+ save, not a 6+ save, it's the dice that is changed from a D6 to a D6-1

He was correct... he just did not go into as much detail.

 Primark G wrote:
He was correct... he just did not go into as much detail.

"Ignores armour" and "Makes it difficult to pass an armour save" are not even remotely the same. One suggests that it cannot be mitigated in any way and the other is correct.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Technically incorrect. You have an armour save, it's just an armour save you might not be able to make on a D6. Positive modifiers might cancel out negative ones.

Well, technically its called the "save" characteristic, not armor save. Armor save cannot be modified but Save characteristics can be.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
He was correct... he just did not go into as much detail.

"Ignores armour" and "Makes it difficult to pass an armour save" are not even remotely the same. One suggests that it cannot be mitigated in any way and the other is correct.

what about “ignores armour saves” and “makes it impossible to make an armour save”? Are those remotely the same?

Bremon wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
He was correct... he just did not go into as much detail.

"Ignores armour" and "Makes it difficult to pass an armour save" are not even remotely the same. One suggests that it cannot be mitigated in any way and the other is correct.

what about “ignores armour saves” and “makes it impossible to make an armour save”? Are those remotely the same?

They are subtly different, as explained before.

You'll notice Pox Walkers have a 7+ save on their datasheet.

They have a save that is normally (outside of cover etc) impossible to make, which is different to not having an armour save.

Hope that helps clear up the difference.