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The new Red Rule book went up for purchase this morning at Forge World! Check it out!

Looks like demand temporarily crashed the order server this morning! But FW sent out a message saying it's fixed and they have more rule books available. Maybe they underestimated the demand for it?

Digital version is available now. Merry Christmas!

Ah ah sorry for the late ones ! I successfully bought one, with the two army list books and the summary sheets ! :p

Transferring a digital copy to my ereader now. Will let you know if I discover anything exciting.

Or...not. It's larger than the filesize limit for Play Books, I may need to find another epub reader app.

(Some time later

Kind of disappointed, to be honest. I was hoping for Forge World's edit of 7th to make some of the weirder bits more sensible (wound allocation, Destroyer weapons, that kind of thing), and it's just 7th with different art.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Transferring a digital copy to my ereader now. Will let you know if I discover anything exciting.

Or...not. It's larger than the filesize limit for Play Books, I may need to find another epub reader app.

(Some time later

Kind of disappointed, to be honest. I was hoping for Forge World's edit of 7th to make some of the weirder bits more sensible (wound allocation, Destroyer weapons, that kind of thing), and it's just 7th with different art.

Any NOTABLE Differences? (E.G Invisibility)

 commander dante wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Transferring a digital copy to my ereader now. Will let you know if I discover anything exciting.

Or...not. It's larger than the filesize limit for Play Books, I may need to find another epub reader app.

(Some time later

Kind of disappointed, to be honest. I was hoping for Forge World's edit of 7th to make some of the weirder bits more sensible (wound allocation, Destroyer weapons, that kind of thing), and it's just 7th with different art.

Any NOTABLE Differences? (E.G Invisibility)

Invisibility's been replaced with a 12" range Malediction that sets the target unit's WS/BS to 1 (still WC2). And Summoning has a table of generic Daemon profiles (a la Codex CSM 4e) that you add one keyword to when summoned (choose from FNP5+, Rage, Crusader, Brotherhood of Psykers/Psyker (ML2)/Psyker (ML3) depending on rank), with the caveat that if you've got the 7e Daemons book lying around and both players agree you can use those rules instead. And grenades are back to one attack per model in melee, so the cost for giving melta to a squad makes sense again.

Haven't found anything else yet, but if you have further questions I'll see what I can do. (The points I looked at first and was most disappointed by are the Destroyer/Stomp/Thunderblitz tables (unchanged, still 'kill all things on a 6') and wound allocation (still closest model plus Look Out, Sir!), for the curious.)

Ordered!
Merry Christmas to you too FW!

I just had a long day hosting and cooking, then when i get the moment to sit and chill the book I've been wanting goes up for order with sweetener and no traffic volume or demand issues..

Going to keep using the alternate d weapon rules from my black books - does the new book keep that?

It does not

Crashing their server is a good sign for the game.

Glad to hear it.

What changes made it into the book?

 Red_Five wrote:
What changes made it into the book?

Very few. I've found Invisibility, Summoning, and grenades thus far (details further up the page), if you have anything specific you want me to check let me know.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Red_Five wrote:
What changes made it into the book?

Very few. I've found Invisibility, Summoning, and grenades thus far (details further up the page), if you have anything specific you want me to check let me know.

Supposedly tightening up wordings. I have feeling they used assault as example but could be wrong.

Invisibility great, daemon handy though prefer codex. Grenade one unsure. Makes sense for melta bomb costing but makes vehicles(already weak) weaker. It was good for balance to be limited but screwed melta bomb squads. I would have prefered adjusting those prices myself.

Glad for the melta change. My melta assault squads for troops plan took a massive hit with that FAQ.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Red_Five wrote:
What changes made it into the book?

Very few. I've found Invisibility, Summoning, and grenades thus far (details further up the page), if you have anything specific you want me to check let me know.

Is wound allocation the same?

I believe it is.

Assault the same?

Wound allocation and assault are still the same, as far as I can see.

The red rulebook has got a lot of positives though, I'd say its a lot more prescisely written.
There is no fluff getting mixed up with the crunch.

I've only seen one error, there is a slash missing on the third line of the catastrophic explosion table.

Wounds and attacks can be raised above 10. (might not be new, I can't remember)

The grenade change makes sense, even if it it is extreme. Certainly meltabomb squads now terrify tanks, it also allows Custodes to fight tanks in a pinch.
I dont think the grenade change is going to be a huge deal unless you go all out to use it. Although, melee mechanicum monstrous creastures are certainly screwed. Krak grenades on tacticals are a lot of S6 AP4.

DaemonJellybaby wrote:

Wounds and attacks can be raised above 10. (might not be new, I can't remember)

Angron will be happy...

DaemonJellybaby wrote:
The red rulebook has got a lot of positives though, I'd say its a lot more prescisely written.
There is no fluff getting mixed up with the crunch.

I've only seen one error, there is a slash missing on the third line of the catastrophic explosion table.

Wounds and attacks can be raised above 10. (might not be new, I can't remember)

The grenade change makes sense, even if it it is extreme. Certainly meltabomb squads now terrify tanks, it also allows Custodes to fight tanks in a pinch.
I dont think the grenade change is going to be a huge deal unless you go all out to use it. Although, melee mechanicum monstrous creastures are certainly screwed. Krak grenades on tacticals are a lot of S6 AP4.

Tell that to my Knight army! But to be fair, I am using a Knight army. I deserve it.

It certainly changes the dynamic, for knights and for mechanicum.
Those big robots aren't unstoppable anymore.

Honestly, as someone who plays Mechanicum, and plays in a group that got the grenade rule wrong and played it where everybody could make a grenade attack in the assault phase: it ain't that bad, really. As long as it's just krak grenades, though.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Honestly, as someone who plays Mechanicum, and plays in a group that got the grenade rule wrong and played it where everybody could make a grenade attack in the assault phase: it ain't that bad, really. As long as it's just krak grenades, though.

From what I gather, it applies to Meltabombs.

Meltabombs are also squad-wide.

The grenade change just give units a chance where before, they' be stuck.

The Grenade rule does not bug me, it is how I played 7th for the majority of its life cycle (until the FAQ came out).

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Honestly, as someone who plays Mechanicum, and plays in a group that got the grenade rule wrong and played it where everybody could make a grenade attack in the assault phase: it ain't that bad, really. As long as it's just krak grenades, though.

From what I gather, it applies to Meltabombs.

My point was that "it ain't that bad" if all they've got is krak grenades, not that the rule doesn't apply to melta bombs.

But because it applies(and even because it also applies to krak grenades) vehicles got big nerf. As if they were overpowered before. Combat dreadnoughts just melt now. Good thing mine have magnets so I can bring more guns instead to tournaments.

Imho there aren't that many units which can get Squad wide Melta, and that are fast enough to make it a huge deal. Breachers have to be transported to get them close fast to assault tanks, and assault marines aren't exactly tough by 30k standards. Krak grenades can't even pen most dreads front armor.

Pen? What's the big deal about pen when 7th ed vehicle rules are all about glancing tanks to death. There's reason why mid-S guns rule the anti-tank world in 7th ed rules over weapons that have high chance of penetrating. To bust tanks you are concerned only with stripping hull points.

tneva82 wrote:
Pen? What's the big deal about pen when 7th ed vehicle rules are all about glancing tanks to death. There's reason why mid-S guns rule the anti-tank world in 7th ed rules over weapons that have high chance of penetrating. To bust tanks you are concerned only with stripping hull points.

How can S6 Krak glance Front armor 13 on contemptors? I never see anything but contemptors as far as dreads go even at major events since the Contemptors are just plain better. As for tanks, if you allowed your tank to get assaulted by Krak grenade wielding marines that's your bad. You were outmanuvered. In 7th before this anything with rear armor 10 is a joke in assaults anyway. I find this may hurt Mechanicum the most, but even then unless you are fighting vorax, most Mechanicus MC have a 3+ and some form of Invulnerable on too of that. Only scary thing for them is Melta bomb armed squads but they usually have enough shooting to destroy threats like that before it becomes an issue.

So can we give up this stupid fight?

7th edition 30K is here, and it's apparent it's going to stay. We've seen a lot of evidence that many players are happy about that.

There is zero reason we need to have every thread discussing this devolve into a fight about whether or not 8th would be better.