Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This is a discussion about how many different versions of the new Necromunda game can be played.

Here are the different versions I found:

Basic rulebook game

Advanced rulebook game

Basic rulebook and Gang War game using 2d terrain

Basic rulebook and Gang War game using 3d terrain

Advanced rulebook and Gang War game using 2d terrain

Advanced rulebook and Gang War game using 3d terrain

If we ignore the 2d/3d aspect of the game and assume advanced rules as core rules, we got only two uniquely different and mutually exclusive versions of the game:

Rulebook game (rulebook skills, rulebook house lists, rulebook equipment, rulebook prices, rulebook scenarios)

Rulebook core rules with Gang War expansion (gang war skills, gang war house lists, gang war equipment, gang war prices, gang war scenarios)

In the rulebook, there are 20+ pages that can be ripped out without any consequences to the gang war version of necromunda. The skills in Gang War does not expand the skills in the rulebook, they replace them. The prices in gang war does not replace the prices in the rulebook, they replace them. The house lists in gang war does not expand house lists in rulebook, they replace them. The equipment in gang war does not expand the equipment in the rulebook, they replace them. The scenarios in gang war does not expand the scenarios in the rulebook, they replace them.

Gang War is replacing the demo game in the rulebook, not expanding it!

Is this supposed to be a troll thread?

What makes you say that?

This is a stupid thread, but I agree with the sentiment. Gang War is incomplete without Underhive, and most of Underhive is irrelevant if you have Gang War.

You shouldn't need to spend $155 on two books and models you might not even use to get the rules for a Necromunda campaign. Gang War should have been a stand-alone rulebook including the core rules needed to play a campaign game

"using 2D terrain" and "using 3D terrain" is the same thing. It was the same game in 1995 when I played Necromunda using Space Crusade boards, and it's the same now.

Sure, in my real argument we ignore the 2d/3d aspect of the game. I just included it for completeness as 2d and 3d got mutually exclusive rules.

What I found stupid is the hostility and ignorance I'm met with, just for stating the obvious fact: Necromunda now has multiple versions, it's not one single way to play, and the different versions of Necromunda are not compatible with each other. The version using core rules in the rulebook with all the Gang War books is going to be expanded. The demo version in the rulebook is dead and obsolete. This should be obvious for anyone reading the books. Instead I'm accused of trolling, being stupid and not having read the rules.

You are trolling
The "demo" version is not dead and obsolete, new tiles and scenarios are in Gang War 2 for it.

Still talking 2d/3d? I'm not. But I guess you could use the tiles for the demo version. However there will be very little else in the Gang War 2 book that supports the demo version. Orlocks will not be compatible.

My initial argument was that there were different versions of this game, which you agree with, so thank you. The following argument is that the demo version is obsolete. You may think that because future tiles are compatible with the demo version, that will make it survive?

You accuse everyone you don't agree with?

I think you will find a lot less resistance to your assertions, agree or disagree, if you simply call the 'demo' version underhive as it is meant to be called, or at least 'Mortalis'. From what I hear, both versions are fun, and offer the ability for many to get on board (no pun intended) without worrying about the massive amount of terrain the 3d version of the game requires.

Still talking 2d/3d? I'm not.

You can play the full Necromunda game on 2d board.

Check out this example I give you: Orlocks are compatible with tiles ('Mortalis' as you call it). Orlocks are not compatible with the demo version. See what I did there?

Congratulations Baxx your the first person i've put on the ignore list

What did I say that makes people so angry, accusing me for trolling and putting me on their 'ignore' list?

Baxx wrote:
What did I say that makes people so angry, accusing me for trolling and putting me on their 'ignore' list?

Because you obnoxiously keep regurgitating the same argument over and over again in other threads, much to the annoyance of other people and if you won't shut up about it, putting you on ignore is the next best thing.

And others don't do the same? Every time I say something, there seems to be multiple expressions of the opposite.

I got a lot of flak for saying it the first time, before repating it. If you don't like my opinion, why come to my thread where this is the topic to tell me I'm ignored? Does that make sense to you? I thought for some reason the topic was really toxic, but maybe the real reason people are annoyed is because of me repeating the argument. In which case I would suspect them saying so (like you do here), instead of bringing counter-arguments or just straight out harassment.

Why are you so obsessed with this nonsense? There are no 'versions' of tbe game. There is just Necromunda, a d the only real decisions you have to make as players is if you play on 2D or 3D terrain.

[EDIT]: Apologies for spelling. Using my phone as I've been without a PC for a week now.

Baxx wrote:
And others don't do the same? Every time I say something, there seems to be multiple expressions of the opposite.

I got a lot of flak for saying it the first time, before repating it. If you don't like my opinion, why come to my thread where this is the topic to tell me I'm ignored? Does that make sense to you? I thought for some reason the topic was really toxic, but maybe the real reason people are annoyed is because of me repeating the argument. In which case I would suspect them saying so (like you do here), instead of bringing counter-arguments or just straight out harassment.

I made a point to give a compelling advantage to the underhive version the box gives without gang war. You didn't respond at all. The box gives everything you need to play, and continue playing without buying additional material. That is a sales advantage and appeals to people who don't want to buy a gak-ton of terrain, or who aren't experienced enough to go all in on complex rules while still having a very solid and enjoyable game. The fact you can continue to play 2d and 3d is not a problem to me, even if you get terrain. It's options, you choose your play-style to what you feel like. Yes you have to buy gang-war to get the 'full experience', but so what? How is that different than any other system? You can play x-wing out of the starter box too, it doesn't mean you don't need to buy more things and rules to get the full experience.

So GW has given us an ability to play with the minimum buy-in, and options to grow as we want. I think it was quite smart of them. This is my first necromunda experience, so the 2d version is not offensive to me at all. In fact, it is a relief to ease into it.

You don't seem to be grasping you are acting like anyone who doesn't see it your way or has a problem with how you are wording your ideas are attacking you. Then you are repeating yourself over and over, while claiming no one is making any points. This is the reason you are getting hit with ignores, you don't seem interested in discussing as you claim to, you seem interested in winning an argument. If you genuinely feel what I just said is not your intent, then step back, take a breath, and make an effort to understand that you are writing your ideas in a way that is not accomplishing what you want and the problem may be in how you are approaching things. Try and see what you can do on your end with how you are writing and I think you will find plenty of people who are reacting badly to you may respond in much more positive way if you just choose your words a little more carefully.

Please explain what terrain has anything to do with this.

I'm asking because you're talking about tiles, terrain, 2d and 3d. I am not talking about those things. Those are not topic for this discussion or my argument.

lol, ok, I agree with others, you are trolling. I tried though!

Take care buh-bye.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why are you so obsessed with this nonsense? There are no 'versions' of tbe game. There is just Necromunda, a d the only real decisions you have to make as players is if you play on 2D or 3D terrain.

[EDIT]: Apologies for spelling. Using my phone as I've been without a PC for a week now.

What is the price of a grenade launcher in this "one single version" of Necromunda?

It's pretty astounding, I honestly can't tell anymore if everyone else is being willfully obtuse or what.

Objective fact: you can cross out ~27 out of ~60 rules pages in Underhive if you're playing a Gang War campaign game. This has nothing to do with terrain. This is 27 pages of house lists, equipment and scenarios that are entirely replaced by Gang War.

Opinion: If GW was going to pretend that Underhive was a self-contained product, they should have published it with a leaflet rulebook in the box and a real Necromunda rulebook as a seperate product, so we wouldn't have the editing mess we do now.

That is all.

edit - no comment.

Yeah, the fact that you have to buy the core rules with a box set is pretty dumb. Hopefully they'll release a stand alone book when the orlocks come out.
Or combine GW1 and underhive in the orlock book.

If anything it's one game with 2 sets of army lists depending on if you're playing a random stand alone pick up game or if you're playing a campaign. The basic rules and mechanics are all the same and there are some advanced rules to play with 3d terrain and/or to do a detailed campaign. It's all Underhive though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's quite a nice example of modular rules in my view.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Baxx wrote:

What is the price of a grenade launcher in this "one single version" of Necromunda?

How much does a heavy bolter cost in 40k? It either depends on which army list you're using, or maybe there are 30+ versions of 40k...

I was not clear on what was meant. Disparity in the rules between underhive and gangwar is not something I am overly familiar with, as I understood it, it all depended on how many 'levels' or 'steps' into the rule set you go. Underhive underpinning everything, but Gangwar adding and superseding as you go. I am not an experienced list builder and frankly the underhive pre-builds appealed for that reason. I figured/expected that once you went into list building and campaigns things would be quite different in that particular arena.

Regardless, I still think of it as the same game. As has been said, codex's add particular and specific rules and scenarios to 40k, I don't consider playing against someone using a codex being 'another' version of 40k... it's kinda expected this will be part of the experience, and that the same items may cost differently to different armies depending on the codex's being used. The codex's supercede the base rules.

I do agree a stand-alone rule book would be great for many, but for the short-term, they want to sell the box. It's business, it may not be convenient for everyone, but it is the best business plan. I am sure eventually a collected book will be released.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, the fact that you have to buy the core rules with a box set is pretty dumb. Hopefully they'll release a stand alone book when the orlocks come out.
Or combine GW1 and underhive in the orlock book.

I've done it already. There is no way to combine the books without dropping loads of pages from the rulebook that simply just don't combine with the gang war book. Mutually exclusive pages. I'm very familiar with the inconsistencies and conflicts throughout the books and pdf.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Flinty wrote:

How much does a heavy bolter cost in 40k? It either depends on which army list you're using, or maybe there are 30+ versions of 40k...

Sure, a specific unit for imperial guard may pay 10 points for a heavy bolter, while a specific space marine unit pays 15 points for that weapon. Do you find two different codexes for the same army in the same version of 40k where this heavy bolter is priced differently? And do you find two armies that have two alternative codexes that could face each other interchangeably?

Do you think that a fighter in necromunda with an unwieldy 140 points grenade launcher is ever going to fire at a fighter with a 135 points chem thrower?

Legacy gangs also somehow survive with just 1 list for both game modes.

It will be interesting to see if Gang War 2 has two different house lists for the Orlocks. If there's only a single list, that will be a pretty damning admission that the lists in Underhive are just padding to justify two books at launch.

I don't know about the pricing thing, but it wouldn't surprisee me if it was the case. Regarding different codex versions, the Guard have had lots of army list variants in play at one time. Going back to when the different regiments were introduced you could have different options for Cadians compared to Catachan's. Also Forge world have introduced various Guard variant lists for drop troopers, Special Forces drop troopers (unit D66) and Death Korps. Also my understanding of 8th edition 40k is that you can quite happily mash any units you like together and that the Index entries for units can be used interchangeably with Codex units.

But I agree that it will be interesting to see if the next gang lists have the 2 different lists for pick up play and campaign play.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also doesn't 40k just now have a parallel points system depending on whether you play narrative or competetive games?

These are not cadians vs catachan's. This is Goliath vs Goliath.

There will of course not be 2 Orlock lists in Gang War 2. Not 2 sets of prices. There will not be 2 skills sets. Not 2 sets of scenarios.

You can without any problem use the Goliath/Escher from Gang War 1 to have a much richer and varied one-off non-campaign game. You can use the scenarios in Gang War 1 for a one-off non-campaign game.

If GW ever sells the rulebook separate, I would guess they removed all the parts that are obsolete and replaced completely by Gang War 1. Why would they continue this mistake? There was no anticipation for a necromunda version which only has 2 houses, 11 skills and 15 equipments and no juves. Nobody wanted that.

So, kind of an Index >>> Codex situation, where the index has been supposedly quickly replaced by the codex but you still need it because so much stuff simply is not in the codex anymore?

That sounds quite accurate.

One could argue that the Index for an army in w40k would be obsolete after the Codex is out. One could also argue that the Index would no longer receive any future development (what some might call "dead").