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2018/01/09 04:50:39
Subject: All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Fixture of Dakka
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2018/01/09 05:53:37
Subject: Re:All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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I have no words.
No words at all.
How badly did the prosecutor have to feth up here? Like...this case wrote itself, it was served up on a silver platter, why bother withholding evidence? You had a slam-dunk in the bag perfect moneyshot of a case...and then you just decide..."nah, let's feth this up, just for giggles".
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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2018/01/09 13:15:03
Subject: All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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I'd say I'm disappointed but I'm really not. After getting acquitted of pointing guns and occupying a government building I doubted they were going to get any conviction for just pointing guns and talking like meanies.
But withholding evidence? Really? That's how they fethed this up? If I hadn't seen the FBI botch a whole series of investigations in the last few years I might be shocked but my faith in the FBI is basically zero at this point. They're maybe a few ladder rungs off from being as low in my faith as the DEA and ATF which is pretty damn low.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/09 13:15:19
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2018/01/09 13:21:30
Subject: All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
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LordofHats wrote:I'd say I'm disappointed but I'm really not. After getting acquitted of pointing guns and occupying a government building I doubted they were going to get any conviction for just pointing guns and talking like meanies.
But withholding evidence? Really? That's how they fethed this up? If I hadn't seen the FBI botch a whole series of investigations in the last few years I might be shocked but my faith in the FBI is basically zero at this point. They're maybe a few ladder rungs off from being as low in my faith as the DEA and ATF which is pretty damn low.
This. Seems like there was all the evidence in the world and to try to be shady seems like incompetence, or malice.
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10k CSM
1.5k Thousand Sons
2k Death Guard
3k Tau
3k Daemons(Tzeentch and Nurgle)
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2018/01/09 13:22:51
Subject: All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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I'd go with some level of incompetence. Malice could have been achieved simply by following procedure and presenting evidence on request (especially since the evidence claimed to have been withheld isn't evidence that would have aided in Bundy's defense in my view, making its withholding all the more bizarre).
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2018/01/09 14:27:08
Subject: All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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This isn't on the FBI so much as the Prosecutor. I guess the Prosecutor out there has had some problems before? At least the article I read about it alluded to some past issues.
You will also note this was an Obama appointed minority judge. So this wasn't a case of the old boys club protecting their own, unless it was fromt he Prosecution side?
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2018/01/09 16:24:15
Subject: Re:All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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This is just stunning to me...
From what I've read, the Defense stated that they only called their armed supporters AFTER the feds were surveilling them (with sniper assets as well).
The Prosecutions initially were like, "luz!!! listen to these yahoos!", while withholding exculpatory documents proving the Defense's arguments.
Blatant Brady violations really is a big deal and the government fethed up royally here.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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2018/01/09 16:39:50
Subject: All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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What a cluster. Between prosecutorial missteps and a new administration that is probably not terribly interested in pursuing the case, it was doomed. I wonder if this will embolden these armed militia groups.
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-James
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2018/01/09 17:24:42
Subject: All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?
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jmurph wrote:. I wonder if this will embolden these armed militia groups.
It'll encourage the stupid ones, for sure. The smart ones will realize that this technically wasn't a "win" for them.
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"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks |
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2018/01/09 17:46:31
Subject: All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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There's smart militia groups?
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2018/01/09 18:32:16
Subject: Re:All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Fixture of Dakka
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whembly wrote:This is just stunning to me...
From what I've read, the Defense stated that they only called their armed supporters AFTER the feds were surveilling them (with sniper assets as well).
The Prosecutions initially were like, "luz!!! listen to these yahoos!", while withholding exculpatory documents proving the Defense's arguments.
Blatant Brady violations really is a big deal and the government fethed up royally here.
I have family down in Overton and as that deal was happening,they were telling me that people were worried about going outside because of bureau snipers.
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2018/01/09 19:21:54
Subject: All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Powerful Ushbati
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Amazing.
So if these men had been black and did this to protest cop shootings in St. Louis, would the outcome have been the same?
#Wheremahcountrygone?
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2018/01/09 19:23:04
Subject: Re:All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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Relapse wrote:I have family down in Overton and as that deal was happening,they were telling me that people were worried about going outside because of bureau snipers.
Why did they believe that random people were just being shot by snipers?
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Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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2018/01/09 19:35:42
Subject: Re:All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Powerful Ushbati
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Ahtman wrote:Relapse wrote:I have family down in Overton and as that deal was happening,they were telling me that people were worried about going outside because of bureau snipers.
Why did they believe that random people were just being shot by snipers?
I would assume they were simply nervous. When highly militarized police enter an area in mass, common citizens tend to get nervous, especially in these times where *some* cops regularly murder people, for no reason, and are acquitted of all wrong doing.
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2018/01/09 19:54:36
Subject: All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Togusa wrote:Amazing.
So if these men had been black and did this to protest cop shootings in St. Louis, would the outcome have been the same?
#Wheremahcountrygone?
I'm very confident in believing that US District Judge Gloria Navarro (an Obama appointee as has been pointed out in this thread already) would have dismissed the govt's case due to the Brady violations regardless of the identity of the defendents or the nature of the charges. I find it amusing that you think that BLM protestors would receive different treatment than people protesting the BLM.
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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2018/01/09 20:18:51
Subject: Re:All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ahtman wrote:Relapse wrote:I have family down in Overton and as that deal was happening,they were telling me that people were worried about going outside because of bureau snipers.
Why did they believe that random people were just being shot by snipers?
Maybe because the Feds have a history of that kind of thing.
Because a FBI HRT sniper screwed up at Ruby Creek, Idaho back in '92, and killed a woman (Vicky Weaver) holding a baby while trying to tag Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris, due to vague ROEs (based on a faulty threat assessment by the Marshall's Service) set by the FBI's on-site commander.
Lon Horiuchi, the HRT sniper is question, despite being under an (half-assed) investigation, was deployed at Waco, where there is some evidence that he fired on cultists trying to escape the burning Branch Davidian complex.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah. The ones that use their militia as a platform for a political agenda, or a social club that LARPs as minutemen.
The ones that go full tard and challenge the Feds directly? Not so much. Automatically Appended Next Post: LordofHats wrote:I'd say I'm disappointed but I'm really not. After getting acquitted of pointing guns and occupying a government building I doubted they were going to get any conviction for just pointing guns and talking like meanies.
But withholding evidence? Really? That's how they fethed this up? If I hadn't seen the FBI botch a whole series of investigations in the last few years I might be shocked but my faith in the FBI is basically zero at this point. They're maybe a few ladder rungs off from being as low in my faith as the DEA and ATF which is pretty damn low.
Back in my Pop's day in law enforcement, and continuing through my time as a flatfoot, the FBI was known as the "First Bunch of Idiots". And from time to time, they worked hard to live down to that moniker.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/01/09 20:24:06
Proud Purveyor Of The Unconventional In 40k |
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2018/01/09 20:49:55
Subject: Re:All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Fixture of Dakka
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Ahtman wrote:Relapse wrote:I have family down in Overton and as that deal was happening,they were telling me that people were worried about going outside because of bureau snipers.
Why did they believe that random people were just being shot by snipers?
Imagine you are living in a small town and you are out in the back yard with your kids or hanging laundry, only to look up on a hill and see someone camped with a rifle, pointing it in your general direction.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
oldravenman3025 wrote: Ahtman wrote:Relapse wrote:I have family down in Overton and as that deal was happening,they were telling me that people were worried about going outside because of bureau snipers.
Why did they believe that random people were just being shot by snipers?
Maybe because the Feds have a history of that kind of thing.
Because a FBI HRT sniper screwed up at Ruby Creek, Idaho back in '92, and killed a woman (Vicky Weaver) holding a baby while trying to tag Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris, due to vague ROEs (based on a faulty threat assessment by the Marshall's Service) set by the FBI's on-site commander.
Lon Horiuchi, the HRT sniper is question, despite being under an (half-assed) investigation, was deployed at Waco, where there is some evidence that he fired on cultists trying to escape the burning Branch Davidian complex.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah. The ones that use their militia as a platform for a political agenda, or a social club that LARPs as minutemen.
The ones that go full tard and challenge the Feds directly? Not so much.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LordofHats wrote:I'd say I'm disappointed but I'm really not. After getting acquitted of pointing guns and occupying a government building I doubted they were going to get any conviction for just pointing guns and talking like meanies.
But withholding evidence? Really? That's how they fethed this up? If I hadn't seen the FBI botch a whole series of investigations in the last few years I might be shocked but my faith in the FBI is basically zero at this point. They're maybe a few ladder rungs off from being as low in my faith as the DEA and ATF which is pretty damn low.
Back in my Pop's day in law enforcement, and continuing through my time as a flatfoot, the FBI was known as the "First Bunch of Idiots". And from time to time, they worked hard to live down to that moniker.
I remember once when some FBI agents shot the tires on a high jacked plane full of passengers as it was taking off.
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/FBI/FBI%20Miscellaneous%201972/Item%2006.pdf
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/09 20:55:17
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2018/01/09 21:53:51
Subject: Re:All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Relapse wrote: Ahtman wrote:Relapse wrote:I have family down in Overton and as that deal was happening,they were telling me that people were worried about going outside because of bureau snipers.
Why did they believe that random people were just being shot by snipers?
Imagine you are living in a small town and you are out in the back yard with your kids or hanging laundry, only to look up on a hill and see someone camped with a rifle, pointing it in your general direction.
Imagine you're a representative for the Bureau of Land Management and doing your job, only to look up on a hill and see a bunch of someones camped with rifles pointing them in your general direction.
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2018/01/09 22:08:19
Subject: All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Considering that just shooting people seems to be working out better for law enforcement than sitting back and arresting people later, I wouldn’t be surprised if we return to the days of Waco.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/09 22:08:50
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2018/01/09 22:16:23
Subject: Re:All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Fixture of Dakka
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Kanluwen wrote:Relapse wrote: Ahtman wrote:Relapse wrote:I have family down in Overton and as that deal was happening,they were telling me that people were worried about going outside because of bureau snipers.
Why did they believe that random people were just being shot by snipers?
Imagine you are living in a small town and you are out in the back yard with your kids or hanging laundry, only to look up on a hill and see someone camped with a rifle, pointing it in your general direction.
Imagine you're a representative for the Bureau of Land Management and doing your job, only to look up on a hill and see a bunch of someones camped with rifles pointing them in your general direction.
It's clear from your statement you are clueless as to what was going on in the early stages of the standoff.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/09 22:16:56
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2018/01/09 22:26:16
Subject: All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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Whatever happened well they managed to sneak out a rather massive fail of situationthe prosecution should not have failed to win.
So I'm guessing someone royally needed up as I doubt a Obama era prosacuter would been a freind of there's.
He was not a heavily pro gun president..
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/09 22:26:54
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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2018/01/09 22:46:28
Subject: All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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d-usa wrote:Considering that just shooting people seems to be working out better for law enforcement than sitting back and arresting people later, I wouldn’t be surprised if we return to the days of Waco.
One of the Obama administrations biggest mistakes, in my opinion, was backing down in this standoff. You don't pull out law enforcement officers from enforcing a lawful, just, and fair court order because they are in fear of their life. The appropriate thing to have done would have been to send in the National Guard.
The lack of resolve in this situation will only further embolden the militias. The seeds have been planted for future conflict which will be worse.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/09 22:48:02
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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2018/01/09 22:59:22
Subject: Re:All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Relapse wrote: Kanluwen wrote:Relapse wrote: Ahtman wrote:Relapse wrote:I have family down in Overton and as that deal was happening,they were telling me that people were worried about going outside because of bureau snipers.
Why did they believe that random people were just being shot by snipers?
Imagine you are living in a small town and you are out in the back yard with your kids or hanging laundry, only to look up on a hill and see someone camped with a rifle, pointing it in your general direction.
Imagine you're a representative for the Bureau of Land Management and doing your job, only to look up on a hill and see a bunch of someones camped with rifles pointing them in your general direction.
It's clear from your statement you are clueless as to what was going on in the early stages of the standoff.
On March 27, 2014, 145,604 acres of federal land in Clark County were temporarily closed for the "capture, impound, and removal of trespass cattle." BLM officials and law enforcement rangers began a roundup of such livestock on April 5, and an arrest was made the next day.
On April 12, 2014, a group of protesters, some of them armed, approached the BLM "cattle gather". Sheriff Doug Gillespie negotiated with Bundy and newly-confirmed BLM director Neil Kornze, who elected to release the cattle and de-escalate the situation. As of the end of 2015, Cliven Bundy continued to graze his cattle on federal land and still had not paid the grazing fees
Anything else I should be aware of?
I mean, there's more I can quote right now but when the wackjobs who showed up to point guns at federal officials started calling it "The Battle of Bunkersville", I don't think I am really misrepresenting this as the case of the militias being in the wrong.
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2018/01/09 23:14:21
Subject: All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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Personally I think it's hilarious how pointing a gun at law enforcement is acceptable so long as your an old white guy defending your freedom. Obviously drug dealers just need to rebrand themselves. They're not gangsters at all, just liberators against an oppressive government that shoots people for having a pot smell. Viva la revolution!
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2018/01/09 23:30:25
Subject: Re:All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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Nah, then they'll just be branded as thugs complaining about problems that don't exist. It's not like various movements where black people are urged to resist oppressors don't already exist and aren't already vilified.
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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2018/01/09 23:31:09
Subject: All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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LordofHats wrote:Personally I think it's hilarious how pointing a gun at law enforcement is acceptable so long as your an old white guy defending your freedom. Obviously drug dealers just need to rebrand themselves. They're not gangsters at all, just liberators against an oppressive government that shoots people for having a pot smell. Viva la revolution!
Don’t go for the straw man. Nobody decided that the Bundys weren’t guilty or in the wrong, they case was dismissed as a mistrial due to prosecutorial misconduct. If the Brady violations don’t happen there might wel have been a guilty verdict but now we’ll never know.
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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2018/01/09 23:38:59
Subject: All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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I'm more talking about the general attitude of reception given the Bundy's at the time, and the way the Bundy standoff has been regarded is a complete opposite of how other smaller scale incidents have been treated and I find it funny in the macabre way that these sorts of things are funny. It's not so much a comment about anyone here or the thread as a general comment about how Americans have reacted to this (and the Wildlife Refuge incident for that matter). Me and hordes of others who generally bemoan an overzealous use of violence by law enforcement have been continually irate at how this has developed even though in a general way it probably more closely reflects what we actually expect out of law enforcement, while on the opposite side suddenly there's lots of people who are more sympathetic to the "criminals" than they usually are though I've noticed most of Bundy's ardent supporters from 2014 around here are no longer such/no longer commenting/no longer present.
It's funny in the macabre way these things are funny.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/09 23:39:40
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2018/01/10 00:08:03
Subject: All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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Ouze wrote: d-usa wrote:Considering that just shooting people seems to be working out better for law enforcement than sitting back and arresting people later, I wouldn’t be surprised if we return to the days of Waco.
One of the Obama administrations biggest mistakes, in my opinion, was backing down in this standoff. You don't pull out law enforcement officers from enforcing a lawful, just, and fair court order because they are in fear of their life. The appropriate thing to have done would have been to send in the National Guard.
The lack of resolve in this situation will only further embolden the militias. The seeds have been planted for future conflict which will be worse.
However. A alternate view. The momment the line a group of ApC, tanks and soldiers to deal with it. They just admitted the police cannot handle a bunch of men with guns and you need the army to enforce the laws there meant to do.
Much as a legal order. A smouldering ruin and video of military firing on people with heavy armour looks rather bad on TV.
No one died when they did it the way they did, blood spilled could have enraged the militias allies and help feed there naritive of the evil state, soldiers oppressing citizens. Evil government etc.
Anyway. Location was remote. No real homes or such near the land.
Isolations and seige working towards surrender beats a assault when not needed. Unless lives at risk or a danger to those nearby.
Well. Seige and negotiation best idea.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/10 00:11:08
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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2018/01/10 00:14:06
Subject: Re:All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Fixture of Dakka
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Kanluwen wrote:Relapse wrote: Kanluwen wrote:Relapse wrote: Ahtman wrote:Relapse wrote:I have family down in Overton and as that deal was happening,they were telling me that people were worried about going outside because of bureau snipers.
Why did they believe that random people were just being shot by snipers?
Imagine you are living in a small town and you are out in the back yard with your kids or hanging laundry, only to look up on a hill and see someone camped with a rifle, pointing it in your general direction.
Imagine you're a representative for the Bureau of Land Management and doing your job, only to look up on a hill and see a bunch of someones camped with rifles pointing them in your general direction.
It's clear from your statement you are clueless as to what was going on in the early stages of the standoff.
On March 27, 2014, 145,604 acres of federal land in Clark County were temporarily closed for the "capture, impound, and removal of trespass cattle." BLM officials and law enforcement rangers began a roundup of such livestock on April 5, and an arrest was made the next day.
On April 12, 2014, a group of protesters, some of them armed, approached the BLM "cattle gather". Sheriff Doug Gillespie negotiated with Bundy and newly-confirmed BLM director Neil Kornze, who elected to release the cattle and de-escalate the situation. As of the end of 2015, Cliven Bundy continued to graze his cattle on federal land and still had not paid the grazing fees
Anything else I should be aware of?
I mean, there's more I can quote right now but when the wackjobs who showed up to point guns at federal officials started calling it "The Battle of Bunkersville", I don't think I am really misrepresenting this as the case of the militias being in the wrong.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quite a bit more, actually. I'll just refer you to the original thread about the standoff and save myself a lot of wasted time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LordofHats wrote:I'm more talking about the general attitude of reception given the Bundy's at the time, and the way the Bundy standoff has been regarded is a complete opposite of how other smaller scale incidents have been treated and I find it funny in the macabre way that these sorts of things are funny. It's not so much a comment about anyone here or the thread as a general comment about how Americans have reacted to this (and the Wildlife Refuge incident for that matter). Me and hordes of others who generally bemoan an overzealous use of violence by law enforcement have been continually irate at how this has developed even though in a general way it probably more closely reflects what we actually expect out of law enforcement, while on the opposite side suddenly there's lots of people who are more sympathetic to the "criminals" than they usually are though I've noticed most of Bundy's ardent supporters from 2014 around here are no longer such/no longer commenting/no longer present.
It's funny in the macabre way these things are funny.
There were people in the original thread saying the involved towns and everyone in them should be blown up.
All that being said, I can't understand how a lot of people stayed out of jail on the Bundy side and there were no reprimands on certain BLM agents.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/01/10 00:22:26
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2018/01/10 00:22:13
Subject: Re:All charges against Bundy dismissed in 2014 standoff case
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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Relapse wrote:There were people in the original thread saying the involved towns and everyone in them should be blown up.
That whole thread was like an episode of the Twilight Zone at times.
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