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Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

I remember a family member once saw some movie and in it the bad guys tracked the good guys to an island using a cell phone connection they had. Keep in mind this phone didn't work and i guess a signal was somehow achieved in the middle of F off nowhere stranded on an island.

For me there are a few but i'm gonna have to say some of the vehicles and similar in 'the terminator' series.

I just find the fact they have helicopters and all sorts of things able to be maintained and fueled when they're under constant attack everywhere to be a bit hard. The aircraft carrier base seemed pretty odd. I'm not a specialist in the field but i think aircraft carriers need massive supplies and maintenance.

I'll get into much more later but my internet's about to cut out for today.

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Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

I think the list you requested is nearly infinite. You'd have better luck asking for movies that had no such errors, or at least not too egregious ones.

   
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The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

A better, and perhaps more interesting, question would be "Is there any movie ever that had no technical issues or plotholes and thus was technically flawless?"

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Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

 Grey Templar wrote:
A better, and perhaps more interesting, question would be "Is there any movie ever that had no technical issues or plotholes and thus was technically flawless?"


Yes.

Dungeons and Dragons.
   
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Mighty Vampire Count






UK

Every film I have ever watched.

IMO good movies you don't really notice until after,

In Bad movies (The Last Jedi is a prime example of this) however you are sitting there going "wtf" and it breaks immersion.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

Give me a movie and I'll probably find a plot hole somewhere. I mean come on. Narrative conventions in fiction pretty much always rely on some degree of unrealistic (there's an entire website dedicated to finding plot holes in basically everything). Even great works are often littered with plot holes and "what the feth" moments that if you dig into them deeply enough make no sense whatsoever

All alien invasion movies pretty much come down to a glaringly stupid/obvious design flaw being exploited by the heroes and a complete lack of contingency planning on the part of the invaders.

Correspondingly lots of haunted house/place movies have someone who tries to warn the heroes off of doing what they're doing but doesn't actually tell them why they shouldn't do it and instead just gives some cryptic warning that won't even make sense until after gak has hit the fan.

Pretty much any time travel plot inevitably runs into the problem of why time travel was used after the fact to resolve the plot before it even began.

Star Wars... Oh jesus where to I begin? TLDR: Star Wars is basically just a long story about religious fanatics driving the galaxy continually into war and the galaxy just going along with it cause reasons. Don't even get me started about how the place "wise" master Yoda and Obi-Wan decided to hide super evil Vader's super force powerful son was with his own family. I'm sorry even if Vader cut all ties and thought Padme died with the kids, that just seems super fething pointlessly risky like what the gak? You got a whole galaxy to hide the kid in and the first place you go is Anakin Skywalker's mom's adopted son? Not to mention how the Death Star, a planet killer, decided to wait for a planet to be out of the way before blowing up a moon filled with rebel scum. It's a planet killer! I'm pretty sure blowing up the planet will probably take the moon with it!

I got more;

Spoiler:
Percy Jackson's entire story (the movie that is) could have been solved in about five seconds if anyone so much as bothered to use common sense/talk to anyone before trying to kill them.

Anyone ever wonder how the T-Rex in Jurassic Park the Lost World managed to kill members of that boat in places it couldn't possibly fit? Like the guy at the wheel. How the feth did he get eaten if he was at the wheel?

In Oceans Eleven the bags containing the hooker ads at the end of the scheme literally appear out of thin air. Even the makers of the film acknowledge that it's a glaring plot hole because there's no conceivable way that the bags could have gotten there.

When between Space Seed and Wrath of Khan did Khan meet Chekov?

So in Alien, what exactly was Burke's plan after letting the Facehuggers lose in medical, but before getting off the planet? I imagine it would have taken mere seconds for everyone else to realize it was him who let them lose, and that's not counting the possibility that either of them wake up before he gets off the planet and accuses him of doing it. I mean I guess the guy was kind of dumb in the first place but then how the feth did he ever end up in a position of authority being that stupid?

Super evil villain Voldemort could have won in the second movie by just letting the Basillisk kill Harry. I'm starting to think Voldemort is really stupid and find the idea that he ever posed a credible threat a sign of nothing more than general idiocy on the part of everyone who wasn't genocidally evil. I mean he gets maybe a half dozen chances to just kill Harry outright, and doesn't because of the usual cartoon villain arrogance that generally comes with being an adult villain in a children's media series, but come on. It gets kind of absurd at a point how many times he could have won outright just by dropping his need to gloat for a few seconds. And lets not forget that time machine that was used in the third film and then never ever brought up again. Ever. Even though it probably could have single devicingly solved the entire plot line of the franchise. And then there's that time Hermoine erased her parent's memories of her to protect them... from people who can probably find out where she lives and probably don't give a gak that her parents don't remember her. Honestly I could make an entire thread just pointing out all the bat gak crazy plot holes in these movies. I assume some probably translate to the books to.

Speaking of villains who lose because of their need to gloat, Kirei Kotomine and Gilgamesh from the Fate franchise (games, tv series, and films). Seriously, these two could have won everything just by dropping their smug sense of superiority down a level. It's especially egregious with Gilgamesh who is so smugly superior he doesn't even give a gak about what anyone else thinks but somehow gives up on using his literal world destroying super sword against the only thing capable of stopping him because his pride demands that he fight his opponent on even terms? The feth he didn't seem to have that hang up for the last ten battles he'd fought prior to that one.

The basic premise of the Incredibles is all kinds of fethed up. First off there's this silly bit where Super Heroes get banned, but what about the Super Villains? Literally never addressed in the film. Like what, Super Villains just packed up and went home cause the Super Heroes had to go away? What? And then there's the whole bit where Syndrome is horribly (and like crazily) unnecessarily evil for having such a goal as giving everyone super powers. The guy makes a giant evil robot to destroy a city so that he can create demand for and market his super gizmos? I'm sorry you don't need to level a metropolitan area to convince me that I want to buy a glove that shoots freaking lasers!

In I am Legend the not zombies are smart enough to set complex traps but too dumb to use guns.

In the Lion King Scar practically states outright to Mufasa that he wants to be king and will kill Mufasa while his back is turned. It's a pretty egregious failure to recognize a clear threat for a presumably wise King. Lion Guard actually makes it worse after revealing Scar had already killed four others in a botch coup attempt that Mufasa knew about!

In Hercules, despite having access to all the souls in hell Hades never notices that Herc isn't there after Pain and Panic claim to have succeeded in killing him.

How did Indy get into that Submarine in Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark? No seriously. Go back and watch it. One second he's on the submarine after Marian gets nabbed, and the next time you see him he's in the secret sub-base after what must be more than a thousand miles of open ocean before the sub even pulls into the dock How the feth did he avoid dying on the ocean and manage to sneak into the base before the sub even arrived?


I'll even throw in a TV show; Pokemon, where parents send their children off into a super powered monster infested wilderness unsupervised and with no protection other than a baby monster who may or may not like their kid, with only the thin hope that the power of friendship will keep their child alive. Oh and apparently no one goes to school until 20 seasons after their 10th birthday.

Also this;





   
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"When between Space Seed and Wrath of Khan did Khan meet Chekov? "

IIRC, Walter Koenig's theory is that Chekov was a random goldshirt on the Enterprise at the time, and was in front of Khan in the queue for the bogs. Khan remembers him because he left a particularly stinky floater.
   
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USA

It's as good as any

   
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Pretty much any 'why didn't you just stand your ground' type slasher flick.

I do enjoy such films, but man. So many of the killers are idiotic and easy to stop if someone would just put up a fight!

   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

A lot of plot holes in films are the result of cutting scenes to fit into time constraints which are often not set by the director but the the studio/cinema group that buys the film to display.

Alien 3 was seriously messed up when they cut huge chunks out for the theatre release; you can really see these errors when you compare it to the directors cut which adds in a lot of missing parts. Sergio Leone had huge problems with cinema groups cutting his films up, apparently when he made his final film and the cinema group still cut content out he gave up making any more. What's worse is the cut bits often get lost or broken up under different owners so rebuilding can be near impossible.

I bet the indiana jones part you mention was likely a result of an earlier scene or two being cut to make the film fit the time-frame. Oddly it seems that cinema groups prioritize the time over the story coherency. That and when you've watched a film 50 times over cutting bits out chances are that you forget which bits are missing in the final draft because your mind fits in the bits that you already saw. Much like how you can watch a whole film and miss bits and then only realise when you watch it again.


That said I'd say that films are one thing, but many modern crime dramas are VASTLY worse at the crime of unrealistic daftness. Yet it can work. NCIS has some very questionable science going on in Abby's Lab to the point where even those without much technical know-how can see the gaps. Yet the drama works because its more character driven than science (the science is there to give them a way to resolve most cases in 1 to 2 days or so).

Also every film with a bomb - ever - where whoever wires up the bomb colour-codes the wires. Seriously just make them all the same colour!

(Ps my personal peeve with a lot of modern crime dramas is that the investigators appear to never investigate. Instead way too many basically run around headless until they get the "lab report" which then normally outlines exactly what happened and who likely did it).

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I think the directors cut thing is really more of a modern phenomena. There used to be a lot less editing in films, and budgets were tighter. Scenes weren't filmed and then just cut to save run time. Often scenes had to be stretched out to fill run time. There are definitely some glaring examples in more recent years though of really bizarre cutting decisions.

I think a lot of plot holes spawn for the very simple reason that no one was really thinking about it as a problem at the time. I know when I'm writing it can be chapters before I realize I've made one. A lot of the time it doesn't really matter, especially since many go completely unnoticed so long as the audience is engaged and entertained otherwise.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/11 12:13:26


   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I also think a lot of it is how much you draw your reader/viewers in. If you draw them in well and build up the world enough then most can make up the missing minor bits from what they already know. It's impossible to write or film everything that is to take part, so there will always be some gaps. In a good production the viewer/reader can fill in those gaps without much struggle or the gaps don't really matter.

Imagination is a core part of writing or viewing; it makes up the bits that are missing an allows us to accept it as reality even though there are oddities and gaps taking place.

One thing I think that has changed in hollywood films is that pacing appears to be a lost art. Many book to film conversions often feel like they "rush" key parts just to fit it all into a single film. That can often sap all the gravity of a situation because the build up and development happens so fast the the audience hardly gets to settle to appreciate it before BAM the key moment happens.


Also wasn't Gangs of New York something like 8 hours long before they cut it?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/11 12:23:23


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I don't know that pacing is a lost art so much as the current trend is really fast pacing. Getting to the point and getting there fast is prioritized over "messy" issues of continuity. It's partially advantageous in a way. If the plot moves quickly enough from scene to scene people don't have time to notice minor continuity errors.

The problem with a lot of films I think is that they introduce big continuity errors that the fast pacing doesn't really fix, like in Freddy vs Jason when the main characters travel across four states in an hour without sleeping. Or that time in Transformers Revenge of the Fallen when the main character crosses three national borders and a quasi-war zone to get to Giza from Petra in like 45 minutes. They probably got away with it in Freddy vs Jason cause who cares if the Elm Street is in Ohio while Crystal Lake is in Jersey? But Transformers? Sorry even people only vaguely aware of where Petra is know it's not within 45 minutes of the Giza pyramids so it immediately sends up red flags that get noticed in such a bad film.

I feel like the Last Jedi also suffered this. For a 2 and half hour film it covers a lot of ground! They were moving at a quick clip from moment to moment. Unfortunately the WTF moments keep building up with more than enough of them that it ruined the experience for a lot of people which is where I think the polarization on the film really is.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/11 12:36:56


   
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Mighty Vampire Count






UK

I thought the pcaing in TLJ was all over the pace

We had fast paced action followed by an hour of tedium (ship of Fools and Casino World) with occassional interesting bits (pretty much anything with Rey of Ben) and then super fast pace again.

So the film dragged on for far to too long, the director had more than enough time - he simply used it badly. Quite a common problem with modern direrctors

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

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Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

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 LordofHats wrote:

Star Wars... Oh jesus where to I begin? TLDR: Star Wars is basically just a long story about religious fanatics driving the galaxy continually into war and the galaxy just going along with it cause reasons. Don't even get me started about how the place "wise" master Yoda and Obi-Wan decided to hide super evil Vader's super force powerful son was with his own family. I'm sorry even if Vader cut all ties and thought Padme died with the kids, that just seems super fething pointlessly risky like what the gak? You got a whole galaxy to hide the kid in and the first place you go is Anakin Skywalker's mom's adopted son? Not to mention how the Death Star, a planet killer, decided to wait for a planet to be out of the way before blowing up a moon filled with rebel scum. It's a planet killer! I'm pretty sure blowing up the planet will probably take the moon with it!

I can actually understand Obi-Wan's reasoning behind hiding Luke on Tatooine:

Anakin absolutely hated Tatooine, and it was a total backwater. Probably one of the last places in the galaxy Darth Vader or the Empire would ever come looking. I think it is quite telling that in the movies you see Darth Vader leading every operation personally (like boarding the Tantive IV or the whole thing on Bespin) but when looking for the droids on Tatooine he stays in his ship.
Not that Star Wars isn't full of plot holes. Like the aforementioned droids. Why did Vader never recognise C3PO, the droid he himself had built? Or R2D2, who had been present at pretty much every important event that happened in the prequels? Why did R2D2 never tell any of this really important information to Luke? And how come Obi-Wan did not recognise the droids either?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/11 14:38:23


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UK

One that's always bothered me is the T-Rex attack scene in Jurassic Park.

The T-Rex pushes the car off the same side of the road from where she had just stepped...

Except now there's like a 15 meter drop.

Hoping someone can provide me with some reasoning here.

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 LordofHats wrote:
I don't know that pacing is a lost art so much as the current trend is really fast pacing. Getting to the point and getting there fast is prioritized over "messy" issues of continuity. It's partially advantageous in a way. If the plot moves quickly enough from scene to scene people don't have time to notice minor continuity errors.


We had an awful era in the early 2000's where filmmakers tried to shore up all their plot holes (half of which aren't actually plot holes; just because the movie doesn't explain something doesn't mean its a plot hole...) but just ended up making 3 hour drags that no one wants to watch after the first viewing. Most of the stuff in the 80's and 90's was far more willing to just let stuff happen and not worry too much about explaining every little detail and ended up being a lot easier to rewatch due to the better pacing. Personally, I'm all for the return to better paced films. Ep7 is one of my more rewatched films due to the abhorrence of downtime, even if I'm still annoyed it doesn't bother to explain its own conflict very well.
   
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The best example of glaring plot holes is still raiders of the lost ark, forget the submarine it's really this glaring story problem:



 
   
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






 alanmckenzie wrote:
One that's always bothered me is the T-Rex attack scene in Jurassic Park.

The T-Rex pushes the car off the same side of the road from where she had just stepped...

Except now there's like a 15 meter drop.

Hoping someone can provide me with some reasoning here.


Everyone knows that T-Rex are the forefathers of Tiggers (that's what the T stands for), and therefore have ded spring tails.

   
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Fixture of Dakka






Indiana Jones: the biggest plot hole is why the Germans are digging in a British-controlled area.

As for the submarine, the cargo ship departed from presumably Alexandria, at night. Next day, it was stopped by the U-boat, which ended up at a small island which I think would be in Greece somewhere (again, a British ally in the 30s). It arrived there, I think, the same day it intercepted the cargo ship, so it doesn't seem impossible that it sailed the whole way on the surface.
   
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SoCal

 alanmckenzie wrote:
One that's always bothered me is the T-Rex attack scene in Jurassic Park.

The T-Rex pushes the car off the same side of the road from where she had just stepped...

Except now there's like a 15 meter drop.

Hoping someone can provide me with some reasoning here.



This is easy. T-Rex is a Theropod. Birds are evolved from Theropods. Therefore, the T-Rex flew up to the tree next to the fence and hopped along the branches.

It's all set up by Grant earlier in the film.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/11 17:21:02


   
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 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Indiana Jones: the biggest plot hole is why the Germans are digging in a British-controlled area.

As for the submarine, the cargo ship departed from presumably Alexandria, at night. Next day, it was stopped by the U-boat, which ended up at a small island which I think would be in Greece somewhere (again, a British ally in the 30s). It arrived there, I think, the same day it intercepted the cargo ship, so it doesn't seem impossible that it sailed the whole way on the surface.


I'm pretty sure it's shown submerging just after the crew close the hatches and with Jones seen to still be outside.
   
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 LordofHats wrote:
I think the directors cut thing is really more of a modern phenomena. There used to be a lot less editing in films, and budgets were tighter. Scenes weren't filmed and then just cut to save run time. Often scenes had to be stretched out to fill run time. There are definitely some glaring examples in more recent years though of really bizarre cutting decisions.

I think a lot of plot holes spawn for the very simple reason that no one was really thinking about it as a problem at the time. I know when I'm writing it can be chapters before I realize I've made one. A lot of the time it doesn't really matter, especially since many go completely unnoticed so long as the audience is engaged and entertained otherwise.


Indeed. I have personally noticed that modern movies tend to be shorter than older ones. Especially in the early days of Cinema. Old silent movies were often long 4-5 hour affairs.

Today the typical movie is 1.5-2 hours.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Indiana Jones: the biggest plot hole is why the Germans are digging in a British-controlled area.


Yeah, thats a good one. Egypt never fell to the Nazis.


As for the submarine, the cargo ship departed from presumably Alexandria, at night. Next day, it was stopped by the U-boat, which ended up at a small island which I think would be in Greece somewhere (again, a British ally in the 30s). It arrived there, I think, the same day it intercepted the cargo ship, so it doesn't seem impossible that it sailed the whole way on the surface.


Well its possible that island was in Italy somewhere.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/11 17:47:18


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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sirlynchmob wrote:
The best example of glaring plot holes is still raiders of the lost ark, forget the submarine it's really this glaring story problem:




Brilliant!

   
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 Iron_Captain wrote:
Why did Vader never recognise C3PO, the droid he himself had built? Or R2D2, who had been present at pretty much every important event that happened in the prequels?


These ones are easy to explain. Vader never actually sees R2D2 in the OT (doesn't go to Tatooine, doesn't see him on the Death Star, doesn't see him on Hoth, doesn't see him on Bespin (door locks R2 out), doesn't see him on Endor (Luke surrenders himself and leaves the droids behind)).

The only time he ever sees C3PO is on Bespin, in pieces on Chewies back, in a location where they had an identical droid in a different coloured skin. There's no reason for Vader to even consider it's the droid he built 30 years ago when they're apparently common.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/11 22:39:05


 
   
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UK

In theory Vader does see C3PO and R2D2 when he captures the Falcon and allows them to escape. Granted we never see him meet them, but it would be daft to think the Death Star hasn't got a single CCTV cam in the whole structure. However at the time he was very pre-occupied with Obiwan and the Rebellion. After 20odd years chances are the droid he made and R2D2 were far from his mind at the time (and chances are he's blocked off a lot of his pre-Vader memories and just doesn't dwell upon it).

Ergo he might well have forgotten them. Which isn't unreasonable - consider how many friends from school you knew really well who you've not seen in ten or twenty years and if you'd recognise them at all; esp in a different setting and situation.


Heck if you've ever worked with someone and always seen them in the same clothes and setting; then seeing them well outside of that can almost make you not recognise them.

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 Overread wrote:
In theory Vader does see C3PO and R2D2 when he captures the Falcon and allows them to escape. Granted we never see him meet them, but it would be daft to think the Death Star hasn't got a single CCTV cam in the whole structure.


I don't know. It certainly seems like CCTV doesn't exist in Star Wars since a lot of what happens in the setting would have been completely foiled by it.

They could never have gotten off the Falcon with Chewie to get to the control room if CCTV was a thing for example. The officer wouldn't have walked over to the window to check on TK-421, he would have simply looked at a camera. And the Falcon would have been under constant surveillance being an intruder upon a secret Imperial facility.

Han, Luke, and Chewie would have been scrutinized on their way to the detention levels. Especially in the area holding at the time the most significant prisoner in the Empire.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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I never understood the obsession with strategic/plothole/logical failings by characters in film. This all happens in reality. Why do we expect characters in film to be perfect all the time?

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 trexmeyer wrote:
I never understood the obsession with strategic/plothole/logical failings by characters in film. This all happens in reality. Why do we expect characters in film to be perfect all the time?


Reality doesn't have "Plot holes" though. Real Nazis looking for the Ark would never have been digging in Egypt because it was under British control and they couldn't get there to do it.

Indiana Jones would have been just as irrelevant to the ultimate outcome of course, but that's not really a plot hole so much as a writer failing to actually make the Hero effect his own story.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/12 01:03:31


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
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USA

Raiders of the Lost Ark takes place in 1936. Egypt being under British control didn't stop lots of people from not Britain going there and doing stuff and the Ahenerbe project did go outside Germany to explore the "history" of the Aryan race. They never went to Egypt but I don't think that really had anything to do with who was running the place at the time so much as there was nothing there of interest to them. Really the part that doesn't make sense is that they have soldiers with them and are clearly a military outfit who never would have gotten permission to dig for anything.

   
 
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