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Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

Spinning out of news and rumors...

 LunarSol wrote:
I have to admit, I find what units work in which sectorial very confusing when it comes to PanO.

Putting it bluntly, that's because they did a rather poor job from the outset.

When we got the original Human Sphere book and the introduction of Sectorials? We didn't have a lot of options in there.

Shock Army:
Bagh-Mari(Medium Infantry with some nice kits)
Regulars(Linkable--replaced Fusiliers)
Nagas(ALEPH loaner Skirmisher)
Sikh Commandos(Aerial Deployment)
Guarda de Assalto(Heavy Infantry with an Auxbot)
Montesa Knights (Fluff reasons; they also trained alongside the ASA and fought with them in Paradiso)
Tikbalangs(Light TAG)
Dragoes(Heavy TAG)
Kirpal Singh(AD character...was a huge deal for them at the time)

Neoterra:
Auxilia(Non-linkable Light Infantry with an Auxbot synched to them)
Aquila Guard(Expensive HI that was amazing at camo hunting thanks to Multi-Spectral Visor Level Awesome)
Swiss Guard(Expensive TO Camo HI)
Hexas(Expensive TO Camo LI with okay loadouts)
Deva Functionaries(ALEPH loaner LI. Allowed for a relatively cheap but survivable Lt option)
Uhlans(Camo TAG that had an okay loadout for hunting other TAGs. Best part was that it could hide)
Squalo(Lt. TAG option)
Fusiliers(Linkable Light Infantry capped at AVA5 with no character support at time of launch)
Garuda(ALEPH Loaner AD Remote. Was basically the only non-walking deployment that NCA had at the launch)

Military Orders:
Fusiliers(Cheap 3 LI that didn't form a Link Team but generated Orders)
Order Sergeants(Basically AVA Total Fusiliers with specialized options and the ability to Link aside from the Specialist Sergeants)
Gabriele de Fersen(A nasty HI Hacker)
Knights Hospitaler, Montesa, etc(HI that were nice but limited. Generally benefited from a lower price per model since they had Frenzy and/or Impetuous)
Seraph(TAG with an Auxbot)
Magister-Knights(Your guntoting HI Knights that had a fairly high AVA and could have their Extreme Impetuous countered)
Joan of Arc(multiple variants; she could Link with Knights and allowed for removal of some downsides)


With the introduction of Campaign: Paradiso?
Military Orders then had the Crusader Brethren added(AD Knight-lite)
Stephen Rao was added for Bagh-Mari and could Link with them. BM at the time were AVA4 so that was a Big Deal.
Indigo SpecOps were added. Fusiliers, Regulars, and Order Sergeants could be used as the 'basis' for them since it was only taking the Linkable LI options of a faction.
Shock Army had a few Steel Phalanx characters added to their roster.

And now with N3 we've just seen them trying to gap-fill more. Human Sphere N3 actually added some fresh life to NCA but it still doesn't make for an interesting or unique Sectorial sadly.


 Riquende wrote:
I have to admit, I find what units work in which sectorial very confusing when it comes to PanO.


The concept is simple enough. Each planet has its own defence force, and any planet that hosts the HQ of a Knightly Order can bring in some of those as well. Some planets host ALEPH units for training or liaison purposes too.

NCA houses the Neovatican(the organization which rouses the Knightly Orders to war and is the whole reason Order Sergeants exist) but didn't have any Knights in it until the Blackfriar was added last year. They can and have left Knights out when they saw fit.


I'm sort of okay now with the idea of Fusiliers and ORCs being the standard line trooper of the PanO military complex and available to all the sectorials as their filler units (not that I use ORCs). Sure it's not all that exciting but they exist as no-frills no-skill units with a bevy of very standardised weaponry which sort of seems like a PanO thing that would be used to supplement local specialised forces.

The issue is that Fusiliers aren't available to all the Sectorials as their "filler units". NCA is the only one, currently, which had its unique unit(Auxilia) sidelined in favor of the 'vanilla' Fusilier.
Hell, you can't even have an Auxilia as your SpecOps basis with that being sidelined in favor of the Fusilier!

ORCs are still, IMO, too new to the ranks of the NCA and ASA to make a judgement call about them. I think they should be higher AVA in NCA or should be able to join a Haris with an Aquila Guard or be able to do something interesting given that it's supposed to be one of the highest tech Sectorials and the place is home to some of the best command schools in PanOceania.

And that's not even touching on Bolts.

For myself? I think the biggest issue is that we have two Sectorials where what should be a low AVA unit(Fusiliers) isn't.

It would be one thing if, like the Merovingian Sectorial had, the Fusiliers were AVA1 and brought something unique and special to the table.
But they don't. In Military Orders, they're AVA3 so can't really do too much...but in NCA? They're AVA5.

It's led to a Sectorial where what should be the signature units(Bolts and Auxilia) are sidelined in favor of the alternatives that bring the same kits or skillsets for cheaper.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/12 17:19:35


 
   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

Montesa are there not only because they train with Acontecimiento but also because the planet campaigned to create them, the only military order so far created by the will of a planets citizens and not by the church.

That fluff remark aside its not a bad commentary on the fusiliers issue.
   
Made in si
Charging Dragon Prince





You're making me remember how bad PanO is, mercy, let me have my memories of pleasanter times.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/12 19:12:16


 
   
Made in us
Combat Jumping Ragik






Beyond the Beltway

ASA is still quite good, even with the addition of Scylla and Drakios. That addition is pure derp. It is also easily ignored.

My hope, such as hope is, is that Svalarheim will be spared the fate of NCA. I have no interest in Maui-CovenantVaruna.

Hospitallers at AVA2, fireteam:duo ( like Montesa in ASA) would work well in Svalarheim. A full link though, not good. Nor would the inclusion of Order Sergeants be good. (although it may happen, judging by some of the closed lists in the ITS) Svalarheim should have its own signature LI, not something borrowed from MO.


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
-






-

Kan!

You mentioned "playtesting a Svalarheima list last year" and being rather disappointed with it.

This is...not good news.

What can you tell us about it?

   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 Alpharius wrote:
Kan!

You mentioned "playtesting a Svalarheima list last year" and being rather disappointed with it.

This is...not good news.

What can you tell us about it?

It was part of the ITS season. There were a bunch of closed lists.

They had Knights in them and Mercs(which were pretty obvious placeholders). That's all.
   
Made in us
Combat Jumping Ragik






Beyond the Beltway

Alpharius, you can find the lists in the ITS9 document. (Pp.12-14) Some of the units are non-standard, like a Nisse with Haris, and a CSU with rifle+light shotgun.

The lists included both fusiliers and/or order sergeants, which I hope were place-holders.

 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
-






-

I know I'd like Jotums, Nisses, ORCs and...I don't know what else.

What else would 'work' thematically for a PanO Svalarheima sectorial?

   
Made in us
Combat Jumping Ragik






Beyond the Beltway

Hospitallers have their HQ on Svalarheim. So they fit thematically, like the Montesa do for ASA. But A full link team of them... No. Save the Space Knight Pain Trains for the MO sectorial.

Any of the Pan-O remotes would fit. Something ALEPH, preferably Vedic.

The sectorial needs it's own LI unit. No recycled fudiliers. It needs a TO unit, and not an Order Sergeant. It needs some Nordic themed characters, either recreations or local boys, like Stephan Rao.

Basically, it ought to follow the ASA template, not the NCA template for sectorials.

 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 Red Harvest wrote:
Hospitallers have their HQ on Svalarheim. So they fit thematically, like the Montesa do for ASA. But A full link team of them... No. Save the Space Knight Pain Trains for the MO sectorial.

Any of the Pan-O remotes would fit. Something ALEPH, preferably Vedic.

No. Vedic is "specops".

It's something that wasn't represented well with NCA or even ASA.

The sectorial needs it's own LI unit. No recycled fudiliers. It needs a TO unit, and not an Order Sergeant. It needs some Nordic themed characters, either recreations or local boys, like Stephan Rao.

Basically, it ought to follow the ASA template, not the NCA template for sectorials.

You'll get the NCA template and like it!
   
Made in us
Combat Jumping Ragik






Beyond the Beltway

The Nagas fit well with ASA. The reasoning: they train on Acontecimento is as good as any for their inclusion. I'm sure CB will be creating some new Vedics,, one of which will fit into Svalarheim. The Greeks, Scylla and Drakios, don't fit at all in ASA. That is just a derp move.

Re: the second point: I hope not. The NCA template just plain stinks.

But we all agree to that.

 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 Red Harvest wrote:
The Nagas fit well with ASA. The reasoning: they train on Acontecimento is as good as any for their inclusion. I'm sure CB will be creating some new Vedics,, one of which will fit into Svalarheim. The Greeks, Scylla and Drakios, don't fit at all in ASA. That is just a derp move.

Teucer is an expert marksman who served on Paradiso alongside the ASA. He fits just fine. I was genuinely surprised that NCA didn't get Atalanta since she and Teucer both moonlight with the Vedic apparently.

It's literally just Scylla and Drakios that don't really fit but even then...they were kinda/sorta last minute additions that likely were to add Hackers and templates.

Re: the second point: I hope not. The NCA template just plain stinks.

But we all agree to that.

I can't think of anything Vedic that would really fit into Svalarheima. You might see Devas but I can't imagine Posthumans(even NCA didn't get them) or Dakini or anything else like that.
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Nisse




Luton, UK

 Kanluwen wrote:

NCA houses the Neovatican(the organization which rouses the Knightly Orders to war and is the whole reason Order Sergeants exist) but didn't have any Knights in it until the Blackfriar was added last year. They can and have left Knights out when they saw fit.

The issue is that Fusiliers aren't available to all the Sectorials as their "filler units". NCA is the only one, currently, which had its unique unit(Auxilia) sidelined in favor of the 'vanilla' Fusilier.
Hell, you can't even have an Auxilia as your SpecOps basis with that being sidelined in favor of the Fusilier!

ORCs are still, IMO, too new to the ranks of the NCA and ASA to make a judgement call about them. I think they should be higher AVA in NCA or should be able to join a Haris with an Aquila Guard or be able to do something interesting given that it's supposed to be one of the highest tech Sectorials and the place is home to some of the best command schools in PanOceania.

And that's not even touching on Bolts.

For myself? I think the biggest issue is that we have two Sectorials where what should be a low AVA unit(Fusiliers) isn't.

It would be one thing if, like the Merovingian Sectorial had, the Fusiliers were AVA1 and brought something unique and special to the table.
But they don't. In Military Orders, they're AVA3 so can't really do too much...but in NCA? They're AVA5.

It's led to a Sectorial where what should be the signature units(Bolts and Auxilia) are sidelined in favor of the alternatives that bring the same kits or skillsets for cheaper.


I want to preface this by stating outright that in principle I'm right with you. I think that the opportunity to really give the sectorials a bit of full-fat flavour was sadly missed with the HSN3 book. I would love to see Auxilia have an almost OS-style profile list with linkable guys, maybe a sprinkle of SWC weapons and then a few G:sync options maybe with 2-3 different auxbots. Add that, removed Fusiliers and that's fine by me.

But that didn't happen and sadly we have what we have.

I don't take Fusiliers in MO unless I'm absolutely stuck for points and I downgrade a hacker from an OS to one (and prefer to still use the OS model). They're a crutch there and I'd lose them.

Bolts are just in a really, really weird place and there's just no need to rehash conversations that have been had dozens of times. CB makes more variants of them than any other profile I guess and yet they're just so uninspired a choice (fun fact, I won a tourney last year and one of my lists was tuned for Hunting Party. The one time I've ever taken Bolts (2 hacker/EM guys) seriously, and supposedly in a mission they would shine in. I spent 0 orders on them the whole game).

What I will completely disagree with is your take on the NeoVatican. As far as I'm concerned the Military Orders list IS the NeoVatican's call to arms. Any non-MO that choose to fight are simply consumed into the Order Sergeants (and for the sake of the rules all their profiles just get condensed into what we have). I don't think the Knights are there just clanking about the corridors of the SpacePope's crib, they're doing Knight stuff in their monasteries etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/13 00:37:50


“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.” 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 Riquende wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:

NCA houses the Neovatican(the organization which rouses the Knightly Orders to war and is the whole reason Order Sergeants exist) but didn't have any Knights in it until the Blackfriar was added last year. They can and have left Knights out when they saw fit.

The issue is that Fusiliers aren't available to all the Sectorials as their "filler units". NCA is the only one, currently, which had its unique unit(Auxilia) sidelined in favor of the 'vanilla' Fusilier.
Hell, you can't even have an Auxilia as your SpecOps basis with that being sidelined in favor of the Fusilier!

ORCs are still, IMO, too new to the ranks of the NCA and ASA to make a judgement call about them. I think they should be higher AVA in NCA or should be able to join a Haris with an Aquila Guard or be able to do something interesting given that it's supposed to be one of the highest tech Sectorials and the place is home to some of the best command schools in PanOceania.

And that's not even touching on Bolts.

For myself? I think the biggest issue is that we have two Sectorials where what should be a low AVA unit(Fusiliers) isn't.

It would be one thing if, like the Merovingian Sectorial had, the Fusiliers were AVA1 and brought something unique and special to the table.
But they don't. In Military Orders, they're AVA3 so can't really do too much...but in NCA? They're AVA5.

It's led to a Sectorial where what should be the signature units(Bolts and Auxilia) are sidelined in favor of the alternatives that bring the same kits or skillsets for cheaper.


I want to preface this by stating outright that in principle I'm right with you. I think that the opportunity to really give the sectorials a bit of full-fat flavour was sadly missed with the HSN3 book. I would love to see Auxilia have an almost OS-style profile list with linkable guys, maybe a sprinkle of SWC weapons and then a few G:sync options maybe with 2-3 different auxbots. Add that, removed Fusiliers and that's fine by me.

More than that, we could have had what they blatantly STOLE from my ideas with Bolts and put into the Druze. I suggested that Bolts be able to have a Remote as part of a Haris or Triad, allowing for multiple small Fireteams of Bolts advancing with mechanized support.

If I was a pettier person, I'd have caused a fuss about it.

But that didn't happen and sadly we have what we have.

I don't take Fusiliers in MO unless I'm absolutely stuck for points and I downgrade a hacker from an OS to one (and prefer to still use the OS model). They're a crutch there and I'd lose them.

Bolts are just in a really, really weird place and there's just no need to rehash conversations that have been had dozens of times. CB makes more variants of them than any other profile I guess and yet they're just so uninspired a choice (fun fact, I won a tourney last year and one of my lists was tuned for Hunting Party. The one time I've ever taken Bolts (2 hacker/EM guys) seriously, and supposedly in a mission they would shine in. I spent 0 orders on them the whole game).

Like I've said elsewhere, Bolts really should have been designed as the premiere Link Team for NCA. They should have been given a different points value in NCA or even have 0SWC options for Hackers and Special Weapons.


What I will completely disagree with is your take on the NeoVatican. As far as I'm concerned the Military Orders list IS the NeoVatican's call to arms. Any non-MO that choose to fight are simply consumed into the Order Sergeants (and for the sake of the rules all their profiles just get condensed into what we have). I don't think the Knights are there just clanking about the corridors of the SpacePope's crib, they're doing Knight stuff in their monasteries etc.

The problem is that the Neovatican and its ties to the Military Orders is why I was told that the Blackfriars were added into NCA.

I wasn't saying that the NCA should be packed with Knights--but it's more of a point about how they purposely did that Sectorial to include no Knights and Svalarheima can be done similarly if they choose to do so.
   
 
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