Switch Theme:

Guildball curious  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




At my LGS there's a few folks who play Guildball (mostly people who left/are sidegaming WM/H), so I've idly looked at it a few times trying to figure out if I'd want to try or not and if so which team.

Usually I go off aesthetics, but none of them really appeal to me on that level so I was looking for something closer to what I like to play, which based on what I've read, is probably Masons. My read was that they tend to be middle of the road, but build in combos based on a set of players (like, say, Harmony and Honour) which allow them to "explode" in a direction that their opponents are weak in. Is this read correct? I was also considering Engineers based on the description of long range and accuracy.

How well do these two teams do normally?

It sounds like Masons is generally decent, but tends to fall into traps if a non-synergistic team comp is picked, correct? If so, would Masons not be considered an ideal first team?

It looks like there's maybe a dozen total characters per team, and you can pick up the majority of them with the starter and season boxes?
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Masons and Brewers are the starter set teams, so yes, it's perfectly reasonable to start with Masons. As to their play style, you're in the ball park, but changing even one player out of the 6 can hugely impact how a team plays, so it's hard to speak in more than very general terms. The captain you choose can especially influence the style, but "the Kick Off Six" would play in the way you describe.

Both Engineers and Masons have done pretty well competitively, the balance for the game is generally pretty good, because an immense amount of the game is based on in-game decisions making rather than list building, plus when playing at full tournament spec, the rules allow for an alternate selection of your 6 players from a pool of 10, so hard counters are few and far between, and if they happen, they're at least partially your fault.

The balance of the game is actively managed too, so if something swings too far out of whack, it will be addressed.

Initially there were 3 man starters and then you purchased individual models to fill out your team, but they've recently restructured this that each guild has two 6 man boxes (one for each Captain) and then any odd extras are sold individually. They frequently do alt sculpts of characters as well.

Be aware that The Union was also a mercenary faction where certain players could play for other Guilds, but 2018 is seeing the introduction of minor guilds, and as they're released the major guild they belong to will lose access to Union players at sanctioned events (friendlies will, as always, be what you and your opponent agree on.) So March will see the release of The Ratcatchers, the minor guild to the Morticians. Once this happens The Morts will cease to have access to Union players, but will be able to select 2 of the 6 Ratcatchers in their place.

So you might want to hold off any Union purchases, unless it's to play them a step a team.

Overall, can't recommend it highly enough, it's my favorite game of the moment and I'm just acquiring my third full Guild.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/14 22:11:39


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Thank you!

I was planning on keeping away from the Union for now anyway.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





Az13 has mostly covered it but its worth mention all the rules are available for free off the Steamforge website, along with PDFs for paper standee's if you want to try players/teams out before buying stuff

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Oxfordshire

The good thing with the rosters being so small is that it's very easy to end up with multiple teams. I have .... a few, and I'm looking for my next one. Currently thinking of Brewers as I'm a rather aggressive player.

Currently Union have the most players with 17. The rest have 12-13 (Brewers will soon be up to 14).

Some teams are quicker than others, some more fighty, yet all are capable of scoring points through goals and take outs. The Masons don't particularly excel at exploiting an opponents weak points. Their strong suit is that they are naturally good at both the fighting and goal scoring game, having some very powerful beater pieces and one of the (if not the!) best straight up ball kickers in the game. They also have a number of tricks that break up the normal flow of the game. They can charge for free when your opponent moves, they have a model with a longer attack reach than anyone else, they have a model that deals out more damage the more hurt she is. You can give one player in your team an extra activation, which is a rediculously good skill.

The down side to being better than average at the basics of the game is that the Masons don't have any abilities to use at range and they aren't very good at stopping your opponent from doing what they want.

If you wan't a team that can react to whatever is put in front of it then that is a Union team lead by Veteran Rage. No game plan needed, react to what your opponent is doing and make it up as you go. Chaotic but lots of fun

Exploiting weak points is the work of Hunters and Morticians. The morticians are almost the exact opposite of Masons. Really good at exploiting where your opponent is weak, but not particularly great at any one thing.

If you're not fussed about aesthetics and more interested in gameplay, I recommend you give a few teams a go as they all satisfyingly play in very different manners.

(as far as I'm aware, the teams losing access to Union only affects tournaments. Union picks will still be viable in friendly games, but that's only my current understanding)
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Thanks for the info folks.

Further question: I mentioned Guild Ball to one of the other guys at the LGS, and he mentioned that the new seasons tend to invalidate players (necessitating purchasing a new team). I can't find anything to suggest this is the case when I was digging around, it sounds more like players may have abilities and costs shuffled. Is this correct?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Oxfordshire

Absolutely. All models released are still playable. They have been rebalanced and changed with their new cards available to download for free, but absolutely nothing has been invalidated. The game is marketed as a balanced game where all options are valid, not a flavour of the month game where power creep from a new issue means you need to buy a new force to be competitive.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





nobody wrote:
Thanks for the info folks.

Further question: I mentioned Guild Ball to one of the other guys at the LGS, and he mentioned that the new seasons tend to invalidate players (necessitating purchasing a new team). I can't find anything to suggest this is the case when I was digging around, it sounds more like players may have abilities and costs shuffled. Is this correct?


invalidate is too strong a word, players do get revised from season to season but its purely for balance, sometimes it means you have to regig a team but I don't recall any player becoming totally unplayable

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Thanks guys, I figured that was the case but I wanted to make sure just in case I had missed something major.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Oxfordshire

It seems that Steamforged have decided to invalidate the Union models.
From today's Ratcatchers guild announcement;

Steamforged Games wrote:A last thing to note regarding player selection for gameplay. On the retail release date of each Minor Guild, the corresponding Major Guild will lose the ability to play with Union players. This means that from the release date of the Ratcatchers, the Morticians will no longer be able to play with any Union players


I'm alright as I play a full Union team. I'm not sure what players of other teams are to do with their Union models.
It's a perculiar decision.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





 Henry wrote:
It seems that Steamforged have decided to invalidate the Union models.
From today's Ratcatchers guild announcement;

Steamforged Games wrote:A last thing to note regarding player selection for gameplay. On the retail release date of each Minor Guild, the corresponding Major Guild will lose the ability to play with Union players. This means that from the release date of the Ratcatchers, the Morticians will no longer be able to play with any Union players


I'm alright as I play a full Union team. I'm not sure what players of other teams are to do with their Union models.
It's a perculiar decision.


I'd wager most players are but a Captain and Mascot away from a Union Team, and arguably Union players previously invalidated some Guild models, ie (pre-nerf) Harry outclassed an awful lot of other beaty midfielders, I'll admit its a tad annoying and balance could get shaky depending on the speed of the minors release, and it only applys to orgqnised tornys so for funs Harry, Benny and A&G can still break legs on a freelance basis
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Maryland

 Henry wrote:
It seems that Steamforged have decided to invalidate the Union models.
From today's Ratcatchers guild announcement;

Steamforged Games wrote:A last thing to note regarding player selection for gameplay. On the retail release date of each Minor Guild, the corresponding Major Guild will lose the ability to play with Union players. This means that from the release date of the Ratcatchers, the Morticians will no longer be able to play with any Union players


I'm alright as I play a full Union team. I'm not sure what players of other teams are to do with their Union models.
It's a perculiar decision.


As an ex-Guild Ball player, that seems like an... odd decision?

I remember there being some complaints that having Union options meant that in-Guild players weren't being taken, so I guess this is kind of a countermeasure to that - but is that even a complaint still?
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

The reasoning given when it was announced at Steamcon (so Guilds losing access to Union models isn't news, we've known since November, I mentioned it in my first reply, and it truly only impacts sanctioned events) is that a new player needs to be balanced against its own players and those of other Guilds. Whereas a Union model needs to be balanced as a Union player, against all other opposing players, and additionally all other players in any Guild that the Union player may be available to.

This made them a nightmare to balance, resulting in either tepid players people seldom took because if they went over a certain level they'd be too strong in X Guild, or players like Avarisse and Greede, who they seem to have finally sorted into something usable without being broken, but have been all over the map on multiple occasions in the process of getting there.

So, essentially, the Union was a nice idea, but for the long term health of the faction (and maybe the game, and certainly the mental health of the design team) the mercenary element had to go.

I'm quite happy as I only had to add a few models (the 3 man starter and Coin) to add a Union team with options to my collection, and they're on sale in a lot of places as they're now old SKUs, and I play Hunters and Morticians which are allegedly the first two to get their Minor Guilds, so more models and new options!

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Oxfordshire

 Azreal13 wrote:
so Guilds losing access to Union models isn't news, we've known since November, I mentioned it in my first reply, and it truly only impacts sanctioned events

Your thoughts are the same as mine on why Union had to go, and I too believed that it was only sanctioned tournaments where Union would no longer be allowed (as I wrote in an earlier post).

But their blog post today doesn't say that. It says that guilds will no longer have access to Union. No caveats that it applies to tournaments only. If that's not what they had intended then it's an unfortunate way to word it. And that's what I find to be peculiar.
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

But we don't need their permission to carry on just doing what we already do in a friendly game, is my point, as with any other game if your group, or certain people within it, are really put out about the loss of Union players, there's no reason why it has to change.

Getting bothered about what's "allowed" when you're playing at your own kitchen table is GW thinking, we'll have none of that here!

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Oxfordshire

I tried writing a light hearted sarcastic response, but the written form is pretty horrible for conveying intention, so please accept that I write this in good will:

Azreal, all you've done is point out the obvious, which is neither helpful nor insightful. I find the decision to be not so much bothering as peculiar, as I've now said three times.
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

In which case I'm still struggling to understand your reaction to something we were told about 3 months ago, at which point the reasoning was clearly explained by senior SFG staff on the publicly accessible Keynote.

We knew this was coming, we know why, and yes, that it'll only be enforced at SFG events will be self evident because that's a universal truth for all games played competitively vs played casually, yet you seem to still have an issue that they haven't explicitly said you're allowed to carry on before in a casual environment?

So.. yeah, I find your reaction peculiar in and of itself that you seem to be waiting for permission you never needed in the first place to carry on with the status quo in a friendly environment. Union models were never going to be legal in Major Guilds once the Minors rolled out, but you were always going to be able to carry on as now if that's what you preferred. I don't see how today's announcement changes that?

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
 
Forum Index » Other Fantasy Miniatures Games
Go to: