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I've been playing Eldar and Slaanesh demons/EC chaos so far in 8th, and will hopefully start using my Necrons when the codex comes out. In my gaming group there is a Tyranid player, a GSC player and a Khorne player (who will likely move to TS when the codex drops). You can see what's missing here... forces of the Imperium.

I've thought about starting a small Imperial army to add some flavor to our group, but the problem is that I'm not in love with any of the Imperial armies. I like Thunderwolf cavalry, but not enough to start a Space Wolves army. I like the ironstriders and the robots of AdMech, but not sure I really want to go full on AdMech. So many of the guard tanks look cool, but I don't really want all those army men.

Then it hit me. I don't need an "army", I just need detachments with the Imperium keyword. Duh. I'm slow.

I had a few initial questions before I start putting more thought into this.

A) How likely is the detachment/keyword system here to stay? It would really suck to have a single detachment of wolves, guard, AdMech, etc. when 9th rolls around and then find out the system will no longer be used.

B) I'm very unfamiliar with Imperial units. What's a decent starting point in the form of a battalion? Something cheap (points wise) but somewhat interesting/cool. I'm not going for competitive, maybe something with interesting rules or cool models. The only thing I'm really trying avoid is a horde of guard human soldiers.

C) Anything else I should consider before heading down this path? If you were starting your Imperial army over what would you do?

I believe Gulliman is the only one that buffs the imperium as a whole. So I suppose you'd have to look at getting him?

What about the Custodes? Small model count, brings something new to your group?

Crazy Jay wrote:
What about the Custodes? Small model count, brings something new to your group?

Please don't buy custodes. You'll only convince GW to release even more tiny pointless factions that further damage the game.

Buy some sisters.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

Crazy Jay wrote:
What about the Custodes? Small model count, brings something new to your group?

Please don't buy custodes. You'll only convince GW to release even more tiny pointless factions that further damage the game.

Buy some sisters.

Some of us actually LIKE the Custodes. and don't see new things as "damage"

Well sounds like you need to cherry pick your favourite units and run with those.
You dont have to run a batallion of course as thatll force you to invest in troop choices.

But if a batallion is the way you want to go and you want cheap pointage...

For troop choices you could go with marines.
Small count is easy to fill the troop slots for you to invest in the units you like.

Sisters are another highly valid choice. With min squad sizes of 5 girls and at 9pts each, sisters troops will fill the role nicely. Not only that, painted nicely, they look great on the table in addition to having some interesting rules and cool looking models.

Once youve settled on some troops, you can do whatever you want with the other slots. Grab those tanks and robots and wolves.
Itll be quite the schitzophrenic force, but the way things are currently you can do what you want and still be legal.

As for how long the keyword system will stick around? Your guess is as good as anyones.

there are two ways to run an IoM army.

the first and most simple is just throw bonuses and benifits to the wind and run a soup detachment. you can proably get away with just using the indices for this.

the second is to run mixed detachments to gain the maximum bonuses. you'll likely need codices for the chosen factions for this

Discodoggy wrote:
A) How likely is the detachment/keyword system here to stay? It would really suck to have a single detachment of wolves, guard, AdMech, etc. when 9th rolls around and then find out the system will no longer be used.

Very. GW has been attempting (with varying degrees of success) to incentivise single-faction armies while offering the option to sacrifice synergy for versatility ever since they brought allies into the game in 6e; given that it's been preserved in the transition to 8th and that they've been writing Age of Sigmar that way I expect that basic philosophy to remain even if the implementation shifts. You aren't going to be punished for trying to make a single-faction force in future releases.

B) I'm very unfamiliar with Imperial units. What's a decent starting point in the form of a battalion? Something cheap (points wise) but somewhat interesting/cool. I'm not going for competitive, maybe something with interesting rules or cool models. The only thing I'm really trying avoid is a horde of guard human soldiers.

This is a tremendously broad question. There are ten "Imperial armies" that are effective standing on their own rather than a unit or two to stick into other forces, possibly eleven once the Custodes show up, plus the two Forge World Guard armies, Knights, and three extra random gatherings of allied units. On top of that two of those armies can get turned completely on their head depending on which Chapter/Regiment you're playing.

I can tell you that I'd strongly recommend against trying to go for the Deathwatch, Grey Knights, or anyone who doesn't have a reasonably complete plastic range; unfortunately that leaves you with four Marine books, Guard, AdMech, and possibly Custodes once they make an appearance.

Of those I think Space Wolves, AdMech, and Militarum Tempestus have the best Start Collecting boxes if that matters to you.

C) Anything else I should consider before heading down this path? If you were starting your Imperial army over what would you do?

This is good advice for starting any army, not just Imperial armies, but pick an army where you like most of it. Don't pick an army because you like one unit; it may be bad, it may become bad at the next rules change, it may be a non-viable thing to build a list around. Put together an army with a range of different units to start off so you have a foundation on which to learn what you're doing with it, and a flexible starting point that lets you go off in different directions if necessary rather than discovering that your skew list was built the wrong way and you have to start over from scratch.

The only problem with this approach is you end up with a lot codexes (IG, SM, BA, DA, SW, GK, DeathWatch,Sisters, Admech, custodes, knights, inquisition am I missing anyone?) and all the associated FAQs CA changes and the like.

It gets a bit cumbersome but I would strongly advise against not getting the codexes and relying on battlescribe or something similar.

Probably best if you can look through the codexes and get a feel for what units you like before you go all in. There are a lot of imperial choices so you probably have more options on the theme of the army (mechanized, infantry, flyers, cqc, elites, deepstrike) and the model range is crazy big.

Discodoggy wrote:


A) How likely is the detachment/keyword system here to stay? It would really suck to have a single detachment of wolves, guard, AdMech, etc. when 9th rolls around and then find out the system will no longer be used.

I think it's here to stay. for one thing GW has useally tried to ensure that any army you could legally field in past editions remains legal. (legal, not nesscarily GOOD)also IMHO this system represents a fundamental part of GW's design philophosy, that of being able to mix forces for narrivite goodness etc. weather you like it or not, it would IMHO be a pretty major philophsocial shift in GW to do away with this

Space marines are usually described as being more solitary operators, making deep incursions not necessarily in the midst of fighting alongside other imperial forces, but I think some Mentor Legion assisting some disperse depleted imperial forces would be very fluffy.

As for specifics, I'd point out that the way the sisters of battle's act of faith ability works is actually a bigger benefit if you're running one or two units of them in a larger amalgamated force. Furthermore the dominions, what some would call their best unit, are in the often underwhelming fast attack slot, and are a great way to get lots of melta up field fast. Of that army I think they, and Celestine, stand out.

 fraser1191 wrote:
I believe Gulliman is the only one that buffs the imperium as a whole. So I suppose you'd have to look at getting him?

Inquisitors have a leadership bubble that affects all Imperium units. I think Inquisitor would make a lot of sense for this sort of army fluffwise. The eclectic collection of units may represent Inquisitors hand picked task force.

In any case, the problem with this is that while it is indeed possible to just lump all sorts of imperial units from different codices in one detachment, you will not gain any of their faction specific bonuses (army traits, relics, warlord traits and stratagems) this way. It would be wise to arrange at least majority of the units in codex specific detachments. Filling a patrol detachment for example is not terribly hard though, so doing this is pretty easy.

Do what I did and choose a branch if the Imperium and build around that.

Back in the old days when Sisters were on GW shelves I started an Ordo Hereticus army starting with Sisters and Inquisitorial units then added IG and later Grey Knights. Recently the Inquisitors local AdMech weapons dealers got drafted into the fight which I suppose mustn't be going well.

When building an army, it's important to like its fluff. At least that's how I feel. So, you should get the units that you think are cool: ie., wolf cavalry and the AdMech robots, even if they are not from a single faction*.

Do note that you should probably get some "boring" units as well. If I were to build a marine/AdMech/whatever army, I'd make sure to divide the the forces to three detachments:

1) Marines only
2) AdMech only
aaaand 3) Random guys like assassins/other marines/storm troopers/custodes/inquisition/whatever takes my fancy

With 1) and 2), I'd make sure to get the "free" benefits like chapter tactics, warlord traits, etc.. With 3), I wouldn't even try. If you ask me, you can totally get away without the "free" stuff in your third detachment, as long as they complement the other two detachments well.

*Though Imperium is a single faction.

I'm a big fan of making Imperium lists by making 3 detatchments from different Imperium factions. Good variety and it lets you try out 1000ish points of an army pretty easily before deciding what is worth investing more in.

GW has been attempting (with varying degrees of success) to incentivise single-faction armies

I think attempting is the key word here. I'm really disappointed with their efforts, TBH. Because the incentives are always detachment based, and not army wide, there's really no incentive to run mono anything.

Even my all Aeldari (no Ynnari, no DE) competitive army runs two different craftworlds. Guilliman never shows up without guardsman (and you'll often see him without a single space marine around).

Thanks for all of the feedback.

Crazy Jay wrote:
What about the Custodes? Small model count, brings something new to your group?

Been toying with the idea a bit. I love the dread. Since my group is only playing 1250 right now I could put this together pretty easily. I wonder if the Venerable LR will be back in stock soon. I found the speeder a bit hard to look at, but who says I need one of those?

Giantwalkingchair wrote:

Sisters are another highly valid choice.

This has always been somewhat appealing, but I have an aversion to metal models. I should have mentioned that in the original post. I guess I could jump on the "waiting for plastic sisters" train.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Discodoggy wrote:

This is good advice for starting any army, not just Imperial armies, but pick an army where you like most of it. Don't pick an army because you like one unit; it may be bad, it may become bad at the next rules change, it may be a non-viable thing to build a list around. Put together an army with a range of different units to start off so you have a foundation on which to learn what you're doing with it, and a flexible starting point that lets you go off in different directions if necessary rather than discovering that your skew list was built the wrong way and you have to start over from scratch.

Thanks for this. I think I like the wolves aesthetic in general. I was looking at some of the models last night and the dreads (again) looked pretty damn cool. Having an HQ in a dreadnought seemed fun. That HQ plus three more SW dreads might be a fun vanguard detachment. I was also looking at the Blood Angels dreads, but besides those and some really nice looking HQ choices in the black armor I'm not sure if I like the models in general.

 Crimson wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
I believe Gulliman is the only one that buffs the imperium as a whole. So I suppose you'd have to look at getting him?

Inquisitors have a leadership bubble that affects all Imperium units. I think Inquisitor would make a lot of sense for this sort of army fluffwise.

Will take a look. I still have a lot of research to do. After reading through the Imperium Index 2 last night I realized I know even less than I thought.

Does your group put a limit on the number of detachments you're allowed to bring?
If not, I would advise you to try and have a different detachment for each faction you're going to bring, to benefit from the associated bonus.
You could bring your thunderwolf cavalry by creating a detachment with 1HQ on thunderwolf, a couple units of cavalry, and a unit of wolves (to get some chaff and a third FA). That's a neat detachment in the 400-500pts range. Or if one of the troop choice appeals to you, a single one allows you to form a SW patrol detachment that is more modular.
That nets you fewer CP than merging all your imperium stuff into the same detachments, and is less flexible. But overall a bit better on the table top I think.

 znelson wrote:

GW has been attempting (with varying degrees of success) to incentivise single-faction armies

I think attempting is the key word here. I'm really disappointed with their efforts, TBH. Because the incentives are always detachment based, and not army wide, there's really no incentive to run mono anything.

Even my all Aeldari (no Ynnari, no DE) competitive army runs two different craftworlds. Guilliman never shows up without guardsman (and you'll often see him without a single space marine around).

Honestly, I've always kind of hated what a faction constitutes in 40k. A dozen flavors of color schemes does not define a unique or interesting faction for me. I'd rather it all be one faction and expand out Orks and elves and stuff to have similar variant rules. I think its way more interesting to have Guard as the troop choice, so the marines you have feel like the elite superhuman heroes they're supposed to be.

The detachments seem to be doing a pretty good job of keeping things in faction within a single detatchment and with a limit of 3 you end up with a pretty good blend of roles in the army as a whole. I think the bigger issue is just Codexes and how they've gone back to scattering rules across far to many sources to properly support the system they've developed that I think overall does the best job of balancing freedom with reasonable restrictions since they started the whole ally thing.

Why not just collect the units that you like, first, then go from there?
Lots of good advice here, lots of good ways to build imperium armies.
Please don't buy/play Girlyman or Stormcastodes, though.
I like the 3 groups at 1000points each collection.
And at 1250, two groups, maybe one primary and one secondary, would work too.
Stick an inquisitor in there and make him/her your warlord...
I have an army that is slowly outgrowing its original conception that began in this way.
I love it.
Just added thirty Imp Guardsmen and a chimera... Next, want to add a sentinel. Have stormtroopers, some marines, grey knights, termies, so many units that I always liked and I can collect them and paint them up and bundle them under one of my inquisitors anytime because that is what Inquisitors do...
Lots of fun.

 jeff white wrote:

Please don't buy/play Girlyman or Stormcastodes, though.

I'm not going to play RG, our group isn't that competitive (although the Khorne/TS player just got Magnus). You're the second person who's tried to dissuade me from playing AC. Out of curiosity, what's the stigma with these guys?

The Custodes Custards are the new flavour of hate for most Xeno players since it's yet another Imperial army and, depite protestation to the contrary by GW, they're basically yet more spess muhreens, but even more special that the already better than "normal" grey knights. There's only so many times you can have best of the best of the best of the best before it starts getting silly.

You've also got a bunch of people (admitedly, mostly Xeno players at this point) who are a bit disgruntled that we're basically getting new factions while existing factions are stuck with unplayable index armies (read: Necrons and Tau).

I'd be wary of picking them up because elite units are generally pretty bad in 8th so you've got 3 outcomes:
1) GW makes them wildly overpowered and they're strong, possibly enough that you're labeled a cheesemonger and don't get games
2) GW makes them strong enough to compensate for how bad elite forces are and they're roughly balanced
3) GW makes them "balanced" against other elite armies and they're screwed over by the 8th ed rules or GW wildly overprices them (my money is on this one) and they are unplayable trash.

Discodoggy wrote:
You're the second person who's tried to dissuade me from playing AC. Out of curiosity, what's the stigma with these guys?

Don't listen these people. If you like Custodes, then get them.

Everson assasins

Discodoggy wrote:

 jeff white wrote:

Please don't buy/play Girlyman or Stormcastodes, though.

I'm not going to play RG, our group isn't that competitive (although the Khorne/TS player just got Magnus). You're the second person who's tried to dissuade me from playing AC. Out of curiosity, what's the stigma with these guys?

people who are upset that THEIR army hasn't had it's codex out basicly. They want ACs to be a colossal failure because that'll ensure codex orcs comes out faster or something

There's also the fluff aspect, where the guys who's job is to guard the emperor and his palace are gallivanting off around the galaxy.

 Mmmpi wrote:
There's also the fluff aspect, where the guys who's job is to guard the emperor and his palace are gallivanting off around the galaxy.

...And who went wandering off on a large combat deployment to invade Prospero...and who go gallivanting off around the galaxy running black ops in the novels...

There's also a visual saturation for me. I don't really like big golden armors, and since AoS started we just had a continuous stream of Stormcast, which to me are in the same vein as Custodes (big not-really-human dudes in bright golden armor with huge shoulderpads and topknots).

But I think the hate towards Custodes will die down. Basically in a few month, when they'll eventually get very little support, just like every other small faction.

What I do with my imperial army is take relatively aesthetically copacetic models and fluff them as operatives working in one branch of the inquisition to tie them together. I like the looks of Deathwatch so I chose the Ordo Xenos, so I've got an inquisitor with some high-tech acolytes and a jokaero, some Vostroyan guard, some Admech, and some Deathwatch alongside a few other goodies like a knight and a set of assassins that I swap in and out.

Thanks for the info on the upcoming AC codex and all the other info, there's a lot of ideas that I hadn't yet considered, which I suppose was the point of the thread.

I finally got my Imperium 1 index back and took a look at all of the options for dreadnoughts (which I seem to be becoming obsessed with). There's a lot of choices. The Blizzard Shield on the SW dreads looks nice, the Nemesis Dreadknight looks amazing (and can deep strike), Blood Angels look like there's some interesting options. I suppose I need to wait a bit more to see what the AC contemptor has to offer.

So my question is, if you were going to make a vanguard detachment of dreadnoughts, which would you choose? Space Wolves, GK, vanilla marines or Blood Angels?