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2018/01/16 22:28:27
Subject: A tweak for elite infantry?
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Roarin' Runtherd
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8th edition has not been kind to expensive infantry models with multiple wounds and good saves. Changes to AP have made those saves less valuable, and additional wounds are countered by multi-damage weapons. What if infantry models got to take their armor/inv. save for each individual wound they take, rather than one save for all the damage. So, a two wound terminator that is wounded by plasma would normally get one save against a two damage shot, but now they would get a save against both of those wounds that would be caused by the plasma shot. This way, multi-damage weapons are still good against these targets by forcing more saves on each hit, but elite models get some added durability against these weapons without increasing their survivability against small arms.
Would this help?
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2018/01/16 22:51:11
Subject: Re:A tweak for elite infantry?
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon
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With your specific example in mind, plasmas actually has been the go to guns for dealing with elite infantries. Making termies tougher simply due to anti-TEQ weapons' super effectiveness in the current edition wouldn't really solve the issue IMO.
Plasma weaponry should stay effective against elite infantries - but plasmas really do need to tone down a little. The overcharge profile needs to be overhauled to bring back the risk associated cheap anti-MEQ gun by either:
1. reduced effectiveness, reduced risk option - make to hit rolls of 6 or more resolves the shot at +1S/+1D; change the mortal wound to a regular wound at the improved weapon profile (S8|AP-3|D2), saveable via normal saves.
2. least effective, least risk option - make to hit rolls of natural 1's overheat, change the mortal wound to a simple wound, with all saves mechanics. No shots resolved.
Or somewhere in between.
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2018/01/17 04:38:12
Subject: A tweak for elite infantry?
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Focused Fire Warrior
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Do deathguard terminators feel like they're just right in the face of plasma?
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2018/01/17 05:25:08
Subject: A tweak for elite infantry?
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Terrifying Rhinox Rider
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this was a pretty exciting thread title, but the thread isn't about elites.
Most marine armies' veterans don't have multiple wounds.
Incubi, truborn, and blood brides don't have multiple wounds.
Nob and Flash Git squads have multiple wounds but probably don't have useful saves to take after modifiers, only Meganob units do.
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2018/01/17 05:53:18
Subject: Re:A tweak for elite infantry?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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outside of hellblasters can anyone spam massed plasma in a single unit?
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2018/01/17 06:09:47
Subject: Re:A tweak for elite infantry?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Guardsmen, either veterans or Tempestus Scions.
Dirt cheap for what they effectively do
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2018/01/17 08:25:57
Subject: Re:A tweak for elite infantry?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Right now, with a 2D weapon, it's 1 hit roll, 1 wound roll, 1 save, then the model loses two wounds. And you want to transform that into 1 hit roll, 1 wound roll, 2 saves, each failed save removing a single wound. Is that it?
And the idea is that both saves caused by the same to-wound roll must be rolled by the same model, so that a model with 1 remaining wound failing both saves dies, and the extra damage is lost.
I don't really like the idea, because it requires a lot more bookeeping. At the moment we can just roll all the saves, then apply the damage. It's already a pain to deal with multiple wounding hits with random damage (because we need to roll them one at a time). But with your change, multi-wound models hit by random damage weapons would require to first roll for the random damage, then proceed to save each of these damages in a pool.
And it gets worse if these models have a FNP of some sort, adding yet another layer.
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2018/01/17 09:11:36
Subject: A tweak for elite infantry?
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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ManTube wrote:8th edition has not been kind to expensive infantry models with multiple wounds and good saves. Changes to AP have made those saves less valuable, and additional wounds are countered by multi-damage weapons. What if infantry models got to take their armor/ inv. save for each individual wound they take, rather than one save for all the damage. So, a two wound terminator that is wounded by plasma would normally get one save against a two damage shot, but now they would get a save against both of those wounds that would be caused by the plasma shot. This way, multi-damage weapons are still good against these targets by forcing more saves on each hit, but elite models get some added durability against these weapons without increasing their survivability against small arms.
Would this help?
0.5*2=2*0.5. In other words averages work out exact same. What you accomplished is more dice rolling aka slowing down. Short run maybe help but also there are cases where this hurts(1 wound through is as bad as 2 wounds. Say terminator has 2+ turned to 5+. Previously you had 33% chance to pass. Now you would have 1/9 chance of help...) and game slows down.
Bad idea.
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2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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