Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

GK Battalion:
GMDK, psilencer, psycannon, teleport, hammer - 290
GMDK, psilencer, psycannon, teleport, hammer - 290
GMDK, psilencer, psycannon, teleport, hammer - 290
GKSS, 5x, psilencer - 107
GKSS, 5x, psilencer - 107
GKSS, 5x, psilencer - 107

AM Battalion, Vostroyans:
Commander, Kurov's Aquila, WARLORD (Grand Strategist) - 30
Psyker, Armor of Graf (Visions, Maelstrom) - 46
Infantry, 9x, Flamer, Mortar - 53
Infantry, 9x, Flamer, Mortar - 53
Infantry, 9x, Mortar - 45

DA Spearhead:
Lieutenant, Foe-Smiter - 62
Devastators, 5x, 4 Plascan, Cherub - 154
Devastators, 5x, 2 hbolts - 85
Hellblasters, 8x, Heavy Plasinerators - 280


I have a variety of thoughts at this point in time, but one that I hadn't considered until now is to replace the GKSS with Paladins.
I'd switch the Battalion to Supreme Command and swap out all the troops for 5x paladins with 2 psilencers (and a hammer). It's nearly identical in points. I lose 2CP, a psilencer, 8 SBs, two psychic powers, and board control, and gain some durability.
Now that I've said all that, though....not really worth it, innit. Well there goes that idea.

The DA are a recent addition, and replaced a Stormraven and Celestine (+melta Seraphim). Is this worth it? I now have a solid firebase, with the potential to do a lot of damage against SHVs.

Maybe it's me being dumb but what benefits do the Plasma Cannon Devs bring? Why not the Lascannon/Missile Launcher route? and I may be missing something that they are DA.

DA gets to reroll hits of 1 if they stand still, so overcharging is much less dangerous for them. They also have a stratagem called Dark Age Weapons that adds 1 to the damage of plasma weapons.

With the plasma, I can get a minimum of (4 shots, 3dmg each) 12 damage and a max of (12 shots) 36 damage, with a mean of 24 damage.
With the lascannons, I can get a minimum of 4 damage, a max of 24, and a mean of 14.

That's more damage at the worst of times, and more at the best of times, and even more in the middling times. I'd take plasma.
Even without the stratagem (bc maybe I want to give it to the Hellblasters instead), I'm doing a spread of 8-16-24, which is more-more-equal to the las. Plasma is better.

Why would you suggest las? What benefit do you think they bring?

Hmm didn't know that DA could do that lol

Only real benefit I see to Las is the potential for more damage. But seeing their strategem having the +1 damage could negate it. I am not good on the math side of Warhammer.

Yeah knowing that DA can pull that off there is no need for Lascannons. They have the strategem for Flak Missile and Hellfire?

As for the GK side of things looks great. Strikes are far superior to any TDA point for point.

I think the thing that throws me off for Las is the low number of shots. And as shown, even at 2 damage on the plas, I still do more damage MOST OF THE TIME than the las.

Also, plas is more versatile. I will kill anywhere from 0 -12 models with that unit, while las will kill a maximum of 4 EVER.

Do you plan to keep the DA out of LoS on turn 1 if you don't go first? My worry is their durability here.

I could be wrong, but from what I understand only 1 model can carry a Relic and not both of you AM HQs.

Also for the Primaris Psyker, he does not have the <Regiment> keyword and therefor cannot become Vostroyan to take the Armor of Graf.

Dang, good call on Graf's Armour. Didn't catch that.
So my next choices would be the Deathmask (4++ and heal d3 once per game) or the Dagger (outflank for Psyker and another unit).

I like the Dagger bc it would let him potentially be in Terrify range on T1. I probably wouldn't put an infantry squad with him, it'd just be little ol' Psyker. But the Mask would make him a teensy more survivable (maybe heal himself after the inevitable Perils?) I think I'll take that....

And yes, only one relic per army, but each army has a stratagem that lets you take extras. I'm using a CP on the second relic, and a CP on the Lt's relic as well. I start with 10CPs.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
DA gets to reroll hits of 1 if they stand still, so overcharging is much less dangerous for them. They also have a stratagem called Dark Age Weapons that adds 1 to the damage of plasma weapons.

With the plasma, I can get a minimum of (4 shots, 3dmg each) 12 damage and a max of (12 shots) 36 damage, with a mean of 24 damage.
With the lascannons, I can get a minimum of 4 damage, a max of 24, and a mean of 14.

That's more damage at the worst of times, and more at the best of times, and even more in the middling times. I'd take plasma.
Even without the stratagem (bc maybe I want to give it to the Hellblasters instead), I'm doing a spread of 8-16-24, which is more-more-equal to the las. Plasma is better.

Why would you suggest las? What benefit do you think they bring?

How are you automatically hitting, wounding, and bypassing saves in your dmg calculation?

I do like the list though.

Elric Greywolf wrote:Dang, good call on Graf's Armour. Didn't catch that.
So my next choices would be the Deathmask (4++ and heal d3 once per game) or the Dagger (outflank for Psyker and another unit).

I like the Dagger bc it would let him potentially be in Terrify range on T1. I probably wouldn't put an infantry squad with him, it'd just be little ol' Psyker. But the Mask would make him a teensy more survivable (maybe heal himself after the inevitable Perils?) I think I'll take that....

And yes, only one relic per army, but each army has a stratagem that lets you take extras. I'm using a CP on the second relic, and a CP on the Lt's relic as well. I start with 10CPs.

Ahh yes that makes more sense that you are using the Stratagem. I would have to agree that taking the Deathmask would be the best bet. Bringing in a Psyker and 1 unit is pretty much a death sentence. They would not get much done, if anything at all.

Well, GW is finally making GK competitive, so if you have a GK detachment then all friendly Astartes get to hit and wound on 2+, and all weapons are AP-5 and ignore invulnerables!

But seriously, it's just for quick illustrative purposes when dealing with the random nature of some big guns. I've observed that people get distracted by the 'ooooo d6 dmg' of lascannons, when that's not the most important part of the equation. (I've had this same discussion regarding Predator loadouts--I prefer autocannons for this reason, many others default recommend las). I most always take more shots over stronger shots because of the prevalence of invulns. When I'm shooting at Magnus, I'd rather get a least a LITTLE damage through than him making two lucky saves against lascannons, no matter that I might have rolled boxcars for damage. Rather give him 6 saves, he fails 2, and takes 4 damage.

Against Marines in cover, I'm wounding on 2s with Las and will cause 1.48 unsaved wounds. With Plas (assuming the avg of 8 shots) that's 2.37, and supercharged that goes up to 2.96. Supercharged Plas I can kill 3 Primaris in one go!! With las that's only 1-2.

Doing the mathhammer, I think Plas is better, ESPECIALLY supported by DA chapter tactics and Dark Age Tech stratagem.

Edit: What do people think about Moridan tactics instead of Vostroyan? These squads are bubble-wrap objective holders anyhow, so doing better on Overwatch might be worth more than the +3" to double-tap fire?