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Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






My friends want to get into GW gaming but they're more interested in AoS, so I'm gonna take the plunge with them. While I do have some Fantasy Armies, I built them in an earlier era and still wanna keep them fantasy, so I'm gonna jump into this one fresh and clean. I also have (almost) no clue what I'm doing.

So from what i understand, Matched play has Battlelines that you need to fulfill like 40k's FoC or old Fantasy's little organizations, which I assume means I can't just take what models I like willy nilly. This is sort of a problem cuz, having painted half a tyranid army, I kinda want an army of all large beasts, or at least heavy cavalry. Aside from that and points limits....I'm flying dark here.

Given the thing I want, Beastclaw Raiders seem like the best choice. However I do not like the models; Ogres do not look good sitting on those giant things and painting them looks to be a huge hassle (and they look messy even with a good paintjob). I also heard they're quite cheesy, so right now they're strictly a fallback choice.

I've looked into a few all-dragon armies and it seems like Order Serpentis to be a good one. Dreadlord on Black Dragon backed by Hydras for troops seems good. Only problem is Hydras cost a lot in terms of real money, but what else is new. I'm still hesitant because I do own a Black Dragon Dreadlord (which I bought purely because the model looks cool) and the thing is the dickens to transport around. I can't imagine trying to bring one or two to a game along with two to three hydras. Alternatively, if there's any way to field, say, high elf dragons or Zombie Dragons as a standalone army, I would love to do those. I'm willing to see other giant beasts, but I really like dragons (and let's be honest, who doesn't?). However Archaeon is out because 1.) I cannot justify his cost (I can buy almost four dragons for his price) and 2.) he looks like he'd be an even bigger dickens to paint.

Third choice I was eyeing is the Thunderscorn. Really liked Dragon Ogres before and still like them now, except they seem somewhat lacking with only 2 choices and no real variation. It seems like they're only really good as allies to another, more developed force than a standalone army.

I've also eyed Blades of Khorne, with a Juggerlord backed by Skullcrushers. This does give me more variety and some backup, but I was planning a similar army for 40k and don't really want to overlap.

And finally, there's Minotaurs....who I don't really understand how they would work as an army besides a Doombull + Minotaurs and a Ghorgon.

Also army building tips owuld be welcomed, as well as which books I should get. Again, I'm fairly new at this.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in us
Airborne Infiltrating Tomcat




Winchester, VA

The first thing I would point out is you've listed quite a bit of armies and options which makes it somewhat difficult to give advice or suggestions. The Warherd works/runs similar to ogres only more restricted/lacking options, dont forget the cygors though because they are excellent. The largest issue you'll have with most of the options you have listed is lack of options. For example the thunderscorn only having the shaggy and drag-ogres. If your fine with not having options then you shouldn't have any issues but you'll quickly realize your army may seriously struggle with some scenarios etc. Have you considered Seraphon? they have some variety in their leaders and units while still keeping with the monster army theme. Otherwise pick an army that appeals to you because your not going to have fun if you dont like how your army looks in general. Start collectings are usually the best bang for your buck to get in to a army
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




Of all the armies you named, Khorne are pretty much the only ones who have a decent chance of getting anything new this decade.


 
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






From what I've seen I kinda get the feeling that making "pure" armies is very hard and these are generally meant to be mixed around (in their own "detachments" of sorts) as components to an actual functional army. Am I correct for thinking so?

Also I have considered Lizardmen but like the Beastclaw Raiders their line doesn't appeal to me that much.

I'm actually fine with a lack of options if the ones I'm given are at least servicable. I've once beaten a Space Wolves Thunderwolf Cavalry army into the ground with Blood Angels Dreadnoughts.

Currently I'm really leaning towards having 2 Dreadlords on Dragons with a War Hydra and some cold one Riders. Would that be viable?

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor






On the one hand. Yes, going full Order Serpentis you will be able to keep your model count low and all the benefits that that implies to being able to paint them up.

On the other hand... that's about all they offer you. Big monsters can be very hit or miss and benefit greatly from wizard support, the best friend they have on the order side, IMO, is the lore master, who you're cut off from getting by specializing into Serpentis and I don't think the drakespawn knights are a good trade for that.

Generally what I've seen from big monster lists is they can generally be expected to do well against big mob units (especially if they get a benefit for killing lots of people, but ESOECIALLY if they target the unit that doesn't have inspiring presence on it) but they tend to be vulnerable to ganking by elite killers (which knight type units often are,and drakespawn knights don't appear to be...). If I was to run this though, I would try to get a lore master in there somehow, maybe put him up on a bale wind vortex and turn one of those dragons into a rerolling fiend.

That said, how do you feel about iron jawz? I think they have an easier time running this kind of build. You have big impressive dragon centerpieces, the ability to take gore gruntas as battle line and warchanters aren't wizards and their buff therefore is not limited to one unit at a time if you take multiples. And you have access to battalions, trading model count for still more benefits.

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Didn't see it mentioned but maybe Sylvaneth would be a good fit? The cheapest battleline option doesn't take up a lot of points and you could fill the rest with Treelords and Kurnoth Hunters (The Faction Equivalent of heavy cav). Even Alarielle is a massive monster, though she might be crazy to paint.
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Hmmm, would it be possible to run a version using the high elf dragon and minimizing non-behemoth troops? The real appeal of Order Serpentis to me is that they can be fielded without any non-monsters among them.

Also I considered Sylvaneths but like the others, I just don't like the aesthetics.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor






Well... Order Draconis will unlock Dragon Blades as battle line, they may just be riding horses but they're dolled up with an intensely dragon aesthetic. And they can ally with Eldrich Council.

This kind of highlights the problem with the subfactions of old-world models though: the Dragonlord kit can be used to make an archmage on a dragon, and they are both so expensive they'll be the only unit from an allied force in their respective list.

If you're ok with cavalry though, the Swifthawk Agents' Reavers are battle line even in regular Order armies, and while squishier than Drakespawn Knight's they have a decent shooting profile and are fast. If you ran them you could operate under the Order Grand Alliance and have unfettered access to all the dragons from all the other order armies in any combination you want (points permitting).

The downside to that: I think Reavers are out of print? I can't find them in the webstore.

   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






If you're talking about Ellyrian Reavers, I actually have about 10 of them from island of blood. I don't think they ever did get a plastic kit (they did have an old metal+plastic kit) just like the Lothern Seaguard.

I read online that Hydras can be battleline, does that mean I can effectively field an army of just 2 Dreadlords and a Hydra?

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor






As far as I can see, no; the Hydra doesn't have any path to battleline status.

If you haven't already, I do recommend getting the General's Handbook (2017 edition) as that'll cover matched play and the current points costs for everything. High level there are three tiers of matched play requiring at leqst 2, 3, and 4 battleline respectively.

If course if you and your friends are doing open or narrative play instead that restriction won't necessarily apply.

   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






I will grab the book sometime this weekend. I will most likely have to do Matched Play rules for my armies since my friends are more competitive-minded.

I still have a few questions. First is how do the Monsters of Chaos fit into the overall army structure? Are they like the rando allies from 40k where they rob you of some benefit if included in a detachment that is otherwise "pure" in some other form or do they have their own "faction" to speak of? And if I were to go with the Blades of Khorne, would I still be able to use Chaos Knights or are those a Slaves to Darkness thing? Would mixing cause me to lose some benefit? I'm guessing most of the answers are in the books, but I might be buying some models soon and time is a factor so I'd just like some quick insights (Simple yes-no would be enough, I don't need a detailed description of the rules). Thanks.

EDIT: Also do Chaos Dragons and "Wood Elf" dragon still exist in some capacity or are those squatted like the index-only units from 40k?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/25 15:48:29


Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

Chaos Dragons DO still have points; they're on the Warhammer Community site. I think they're 360? If memory serves. I still have a Gaulrich/Chaos Dragon model floating around, so I hunted down the points to actually play him, and CDs are an option; however, Gaulrich is not.

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.  
   
Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor






Grand Alliances in AoS work a lot like the big faction keywords do in 40k, but they aren't as debilitating.

For example you could run a Chaos Grand Alliance army and have access to 6 command traits, 6 relics, etc, as well as be able to take daemonettes and bloodletters in your battleline being lead by a Lord of Change, etc.

Of you could run a Tzeench army and get access to different command traits and likely more and more powerful relics, spells, etc. You'll have less units available overall and some units will be battleline now, and you'll be able to pull one or two units from another subfaction depending on what allies are available to you.

A log of subfactions don't actually have their own traits and relics, in their case its actually better to run them as a Grand Alliance army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Er, to the point regarding the Monsters of Chaos: you have access to them as behemoth under a Chaos Grand Alliance, but it looks like you will still get access to some of them if you're aligned to a specific chaos god instead.

I'm not really sure how Chaos works in AoS.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/25 17:09:56


   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






How are vampires or Flesh eater courts looking with zombie dragons, terrorgeists and blood knights?

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor






I'm honestly not sure. They used to be pretty good, but I think they may have been nerfed by GH 2017.

There was a death list I played against in a league and I recall he had a vampire lord on a zombie dragon that will haunt my nightmares. He synergized Red Fury with something else I can't recall and would shred through infantry with impunity. I know he was really let down when GH 2017 nerfed Red Fury as hard as it did, before that he'd often say Death was limping along and had to come up with stuff like that to keep up.

That said, it looks like a big death related campaign is just around the corner so they may get new stuff, or at least bumped up.

   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






Man, given that latest video I would be very tempted to go Daughters of Khaine, personally. Talk about doing female models right. They just look incredible. Very, very tempting.
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






I like the daughters of Khaine but they're just not for me. On top of fragile models I just prefer large beasties. One of my favourite 40k armies is my nidzillas. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like there's a good equviallent here outside of monstrous cavalry.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I like the daughters of Khaine but they're just not for me. On top of fragile models I just prefer large beasties. One of my favourite 40k armies is my nidzillas. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like there's a good equviallent here outside of monstrous cavalry.


have you taken a look at the seraphon? (former lizardmen) they can go about that route.
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






A lot of people mentioned that but I just don't really like the aesthetics, at least for the rank and file troops. Dunno why, it just looks a bit too goofy for me.

EDIT: After much consideration I think I'm gonna fall back on the Beastclaw Raiders. They seem like the most straightforward choice all things considered, and if I can find enough square bases to mount them on I can still use them with my old fantasy ogres. However I really like Order Serpentis so I might collect an army of that on the side, if they ever come out with a bundle set.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/30 14:39:50


Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
A lot of people mentioned that but I just don't really like the aesthetics, at least for the rank and file troops. Dunno why, it just looks a bit too goofy for me.

EDIT: After much consideration I think I'm gonna fall back on the Beastclaw Raiders. They seem like the most straightforward choice all things considered, and if I can find enough square bases to mount them on I can still use them with my old fantasy ogres. However I really like Order Serpentis so I might collect an army of that on the side, if they ever come out with a bundle set.


any love for the fyreslayers?
   
Made in bg
Dakka Veteran





 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:


EDIT: After much consideration I think I'm gonna fall back on the Beastclaw Raiders.

Yeah, it is hard to get any more straightforward than with BCR: Push everything forward -> do mortal wounds -> push some more -> do more mortal wounds -> charge -> izi pizi game is easy
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 thekingofkings wrote:
 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
A lot of people mentioned that but I just don't really like the aesthetics, at least for the rank and file troops. Dunno why, it just looks a bit too goofy for me.

EDIT: After much consideration I think I'm gonna fall back on the Beastclaw Raiders. They seem like the most straightforward choice all things considered, and if I can find enough square bases to mount them on I can still use them with my old fantasy ogres. However I really like Order Serpentis so I might collect an army of that on the side, if they ever come out with a bundle set.


any love for the fyreslayers?


The models are ok to me but my friend REALLY likes them (she likes her naked dorfs) and since I don't have a specific preference for them, might as well avoid them for now. I'm actually more interested in the Overlords but I don't know if I'd take the dive even if I can find an unsold battleforce.

I just really like big monsters.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu




Southern California

What about clan skryre skaven? Stormfiends are really good. They are "big" models.. think dreadnaught sized. So they have the monster feel you seem to prefer. Also have a great range of options and units.
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Same thing as just going with a Bullgor, Skullcrushers or thunderscorn army; way too much wiggling to get it working when a better, cheaper solution exists in the form of Beastclaw Raiders.

The only reason I was thinking of the other ones I was hoping you could skirt anything that didn't have the Behemoth rule (and, well, because dragons) but that ship has clearly set sailed. the Raiders are just the easiest to do (and I have some experience painting ogres).

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Same thing as just going with a Bullgor, Skullcrushers or thunderscorn army; way too much wiggling to get it working when a better, cheaper solution exists in the form of Beastclaw Raiders.

The only reason I was thinking of the other ones I was hoping you could skirt anything that didn't have the Behemoth rule (and, well, because dragons) but that ship has clearly set sailed. the Raiders are just the easiest to do (and I have some experience painting ogres).


maybe a mixed order force? I bring a fairly eclectic bunch of jackwagons myself: freeguild with a couple units of fyreslayers and the occasional overlord. still wont let a stormcast anywhere near my force though.
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






I'm specifically looking for a monster-only force. If you happen to like fyreslayers then all the power to you, but I ain't biting anytime soon.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I'm specifically looking for a monster-only force. If you happen to like fyreslayers then all the power to you, but I ain't biting anytime soon.


I was just thinking the magmadroths
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Magmadroths still didn't solve the "lack of behemoth units or behemoth-like units in battleline" issue I had. Honestly a mixed Chaos Force is easier than a mixed order force.

Beastclaw Raiders are just easier. Again if you like Fyreslayers all the power to you. Shoving it down my throat ain't gonna work.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Magmadroths still didn't solve the "lack of behemoth units or behemoth-like units in battleline" issue I had. Honestly a mixed Chaos Force is easier than a mixed order force.

Beastclaw Raiders are just easier. Again if you like Fyreslayers all the power to you. Shoving it down my throat ain't gonna work.


no just pointing out the big monsters. If you arent trying for a "pure" army you can pick and pull from various forces large critters, order seems to just have more, and more options to build a force of allied monsters. with the various "dinosaurs" and war hydras you could basically bring an avalanche of heavy monsters. If you are only playing matched points, then maybe destruction is easier. I have played beastclaw force before and found it to be ..lacking. not alot of options and usually outmatched by its equivelents in other forces. Stormcast and khorne always beat it, and tzeentch usually roflstomped it.without points i brought what i thought was alot of heavy hitters out there usually 5 each of thundertusks and stonehorns.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/02 02:00:03


 
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Problem with all of those is, once again (for the third time) they lack anything resembling large monsters in the battleline slot (at least not without dipping into Stormcasts). Chaos at least comes closer with Skullcrushers, Varanguard or Dragon Ogres, but that requires a mixed force that will likely underperform than just straight up going beastclaw raiders.

Why build a golden tower to reach the top of a hill when you could just use the ladder?

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
 
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