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Made in gb
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper



Maidenhead, England

Hi
I have been looking around for something similar to 40k but less have-this-or-else-your-army-is-awful. Less over competitive. I was thinking about doing early space marine scouts. Are there any legions that support them in 30k? If not then maybe more Reaver orientated but I like the idea of early scouts.
Thanks
Boots

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/25 17:21:54


 
   
Made in us
Spawn of Chaos





if you want scouts then Alpha Legion is for you. Any of your infantry will be able to infiltrate, you can technically kill a vehicle before your first turn, and have access to other legions units if you take one of their rites of war. if you take legion veterans then you will have a highly customisable unit.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





All legions can play scouty force but yeah alpha legions are king of the hill on that regards. When I played against them only Alpharius and flier didn\t infiltrate. Flyer because they don't infiltrate!

It's scary to have several rhino's with stuff infiltrating right next to your forces...

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper



Maidenhead, England

Thanks will look into them
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Raven Guard also do mass infiltrate, and have more stealth mechanics than alpha legion, but are much harder to play because of the infantry-based nature.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/25 21:13:31


 
   
Made in gb
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper



Maidenhead, England

I have been looking at the 30k range on the forgeworld store and was planning to get some torsos and shoulder pads. Maybe the headhunter kill team set as well as heads. Anything else I should look for? I am unsure about what to do in terms of getting out enough infantry for a game with out having to pay a fortune for all the sets. Also, is the decal set a good purchase?
Boots
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Battle of calth would probably be best bet. MKIV is probably more appropriate than MKIII for sneaky force. While alpha legion did use MKIII(like all legions) I would figure they got as much MKIV as possible.

Pair of those should give you pretty hefty amount of bodies to begin with. Plus pair of dreads(I would recommend doing bit of cutting work to ensure you can magnetize them so that you can use forge world weapons as well in future) and characters. Pretty much cheapest way to get infantry for 30k.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper



Maidenhead, England

Thanks! Are there any dreadnought weapons I should get to begin with (in terms of usefulness on the tabletop)
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Well kheres assault cannons are pretty darn good so if you want pair of them per dread you need 2 more. Albeit with 2 boxes you can already get twin assault cannon so maybe want some variety.

Assault cannons and fists are pretty decent as it is.

I like volkite weapons so those are what I'm heading for. 7th ed autocannons are also pretty good.

However they aren't super critical. The basic plastic ones are already pretty good. Just something to do for future if you want to get them and also gives you ability to run double assault cannon/double fist/double melta already. It's bit of cutting and gluing but nothing too hard.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper



Maidenhead, England

The Aloha legion task force (38 men and bodies/shoulder pads for all of them) Some are terminators and there’s a dreadnought too but £225 :(
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Remember you don't need to buy alpha legion specific kits and especially torso's are going to be mostly wasted on bolter guys. You don't SEE much of the chest piece behind the bolter!

Heads are nice, shoulder pads are nice. At most I would look for shoulder pads for all(that or transfer sheets) and maybe some heads but no need to give alpha legion head for all.

My Sons of Horus have shoulder pads for all, heads for couple squads, torsos for couple squad(mistake due to above issue). Blood angels have just shoulder pads, few heads and torsos only on couple models(sergeants basically where you can actually see the torso).

No resin parts and just transfer sheet for shoulder pad is 100% valid option.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper



Maidenhead, England

Thank you! Seems obvious now I think of it. I’m still on the fence about the headhunter kill team (dual bolter as well as special heads, arms, shoulders and torso. Do you know wether the combat effectiveness for points is affected by the dual bolter?
Boots
   
Made in us
Spawn of Chaos





The head hunters are, for the points and kit cost, not super good. Veterans can end up doing a similar role for less.
Buying the legion specific upgrade set is less important for Alpha Legion, after all they are known to impersonate other forces, and that would be hard with a big ol' hydra on their armour

one strategy that i found works is if you infiltrate MSU tacticals with a larger force with longer range farther back, then pop Alpharious in when they least expect it

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/26 17:39:58


 
   
Made in gb
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper



Maidenhead, England

I will try it... I am going to purchase some MkIV Marines as well as some shoulders, a few bodies and heads and the decal sheet. A Contemptor dread as well maybe... As well as a character (need to look in forgeworld again)

Also, are the Mk4s on the GW store pretty similar to the forgeworld store as they are a lot cheaper for a ten man tac Squad.
Boots
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Imperial_Boots wrote:
I will try it... I am going to purchase some MkIV Marines as well as some shoulders, a few bodies and heads and the decal sheet. A Contemptor dread as well maybe... As well as a character (need to look in forgeworld again)

Also, are the Mk4s on the GW store pretty similar to the forgeworld store as they are a lot cheaper for a ten man tac Squad.
Boots


The MKIV in forge world store are either the plastic versions GW has with FW upgrade bits or resin versions. Not sure the original resin versions are worth money anymore so from FW main MKIV should be the alpha legion set which is plastic version you can get from GW + some resin upgrade bits with slight discount.

Though still the Calth box is cheapest by far. Few squads from GW site would amount to Calth box that has 30 + terminators + contemptator + characters. Really I don't think there's any reason to NOT buy Calth for alpha legion army. Then it's just matter of how many if any resin pieces you want to tweak them up.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







Alpha Legion and Raven Guard are definitely good answers, what with global Infiltrate and unique scout units providing a strong forward presence early on. Most other Legions find Recon units to be more effective support for other things rather than trying to build a recon army, but there are a couple of others that deserve noting:

Ultramarines. The Legion as a whole doesn't really interact much with Recon units; they're on this list because of the Vigil Operatii Rite of War. It gets you a Primary detachment with Recon squads available as compulsory Troops, and an allied detachment of Militia (Gene-Crafted/Warrior Elite and no Levies) representing an Ultramar army; the allied detachment gets Infiltrate for all Infantry and everyone counts as Scoring. It isn't as fun as it'd be if you could give them Survivors of the Dark Age, but you can get forty cheap infantrymen and ten S6 Ogryn Infiltrating in support of your Recon element.

White Scars: Bizarre and accidental, but a lot of the Legion rules actually help Recon units out quite a lot (Skilled Rider still gives infantry Move Through Cover, +1 to cover saves if you go 6" can stack with Recon Company to get you a 3+ cover save in the open on turn one, the rerolls from that and the Cyber-Eagle are just generally helpful, and the emphasis on bikes/fast units elsewhere means you'll be able to get up the table and support your infiltrators effectively early on).

Thousand Sons: They have the Infiltrate/Deep Strike interaction for Guard of the Crimson King, but they're more noteable for the Ammitara unit, which is a cheaper/better Recon squad packing a strong psychic buff to themselves (Ignores Cover melta/plasma rerolling to hit and to wound), and the full array of Recon rules (Stealth, Infiltrate, Scout) to get into melta range turn one and survive doing so.

Beyond that the Iron Warriors, Imperial Fists, and Blood Angels all really like Recon squads as sources of aggressive nuncio-voxes, but most Legions don't really interact with them directly.

It's also worth noting outside the Legions that the Knights-Errant are aggressive characters that can be added to Loyalist armies who can drop psychic support and mid-tier melee characters in to your Recon element, and a Blackshield Outlander force also gets a lot out of Nuncio-Voxes since they negate the disadvantage to their free Deep Strike for all infantry (lose d3 models on a mishap).

And as a final note both the Raven Guard and the Alpha Legion are allowed to Infiltrate Legion-Inducted Battle-Automata (those taken to accompany a Legion Praevian). Even without first-turn charges a couple of T6+ robots popping up in your face turn one is bound to cause some disruption at minimum.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in gb
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper



Maidenhead, England

Thanks. I will probably buy battle on Calth plus some decal sheets. In terms of space marine scouts I guess I could just sand off the aquilas as the scouts with snipers are pretty much all covering their chest with weapons. Are there even SM scouts in 30k? (Still waiting for book to arrive) I assume there are, but I need confirmation as I was planning to have some with camo cloaks to annoy and pin down my opponents infantry...
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







Imperial_Boots wrote:
Thanks. I will probably buy battle on Calth plus some decal sheets. In terms of space marine scouts I guess I could just sand off the aquilas as the scouts with snipers are pretty much all covering their chest with weapons. Are there even SM scouts in 30k? (Still waiting for book to arrive) I assume there are, but I need confirmation as I was planning to have some with camo cloaks to annoy and pin down my opponents infantry...


Recon Marines are the "Scouts". They're allowed to have camo-cloaks in both power armour and carapace armour, and otherwise have the normal Scout small-arms loadout (chainswords, bolters, sniper rifles, shotguns; mixed freely) and no upgrade weapons other than sergeant kit; using carapace armour you'd probably want to modify Scouts. For power-armoured models Forge World makes a unit with cloaks but you can probably greenstuff cloaks onto the plastic Mk.IV models easily enough.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in gb
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper



Maidenhead, England

Thanks. I am not sure hope carapace changed over the 10000 years, so how would I convert some normal scouts? I may buy forge world power armour ones but I already have some unbuilt scouts that just arrived in the post from a friend who never used them. Any ideas for the mods?
Boots

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/26 23:01:17


 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







There aren't official 30k carapace Marines to my knowledge, and I haven't seen any artwork. I'd almost suggest using the Scout weapons with Militarum Tempestus models for the more ornate/elaborate look.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in gb
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper



Maidenhead, England

It could work and I could just get the torsos/ legs of some bits store
   
Made in gb
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper



Maidenhead, England

 phantombap wrote:
you can technically kill a vehicle before your first turn.


STILL waiting for my book to arrive. Can someone explain this?
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







Imperial_Boots wrote:
 phantombap wrote:
you can technically kill a vehicle before your first turn.


STILL waiting for my book to arrive. Can someone explain this?


The Legion Vigilator inflicts d6 S5 hits on an enemy unit's weakest armour value before the game begins. It isn't likely (you've got something like a 6% chance of actually killing a Rhino this way) but it's possible.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Ah but that isn\t really alpha legion specific is it? Pretty sure any marine force can have him.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions




Nottingham / Sheffield

The Sabatour, the XXth legion- specific consul has something similar:

At the moment the Saboteur enters play, a special Sabotage attack is inflicted on the enemy. Controlling player selects a single enemy unit or fortification on the table. Sabotaged unit suffers D6 Srt 6 AP 3 hits if it has a toughness value, or a single automatic penetrating hit at AP2. Cover saves may not be taken.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/29 00:59:29


Project Log
Neronoxx wrote:
...for the love of god can we drop the flipping jokes?
They might go over peoples heads....
 
   
Made in us
Spawn of Chaos





yeah, what DaemonJellybaby said, if you roll an explodes result any non-superheavy is just gone. plus, there is a character that, if i recall correctly, lets you reroll vehicle damage in their deployment zone
   
Made in gb
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions




Nottingham / Sheffield

Armillus Dynat's warlord trait, Hammerstrike Assault gives the +1 damage in hostile deployment zones.
There is an interesting combo with the combat augment array, a saboteur and Dynat where you force a 6 on the penetrating hit and Dynat's +1 guarantees an explosion on the vehicle damage chart

Project Log
Neronoxx wrote:
...for the love of god can we drop the flipping jokes?
They might go over peoples heads....
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Omadon's Realm

DaemonJellybaby wrote:
There is an interesting combo with the combat augment array, a saboteur and Dynat where you force a 6 on the penetrating hit and Dynat's +1 guarantees an explosion on the vehicle damage chart


If I recall, this was FAQd to remove the combat augment array from the formula, as it doesn't work in sequence with the other two factors.



 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





I mean, it's still POSSIBLE, but not guaranteed.

More likely you'll knock off a weapon or immobilize it.


They/them

 
   
Made in gb
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper



Maidenhead, England

THanks
   
 
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