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I was looking at the Inquisition and SoB Power Armor on Lexicanum and they don’t appear to have Marks. Is there any lore on how non-Astartes Power Armor is created and updated? I’m kind of hoping that if/when the lines get updated their Power Armor will be updated as well.

Aren't only SM and SoB power armours bein' more or less uniform?

Sororitas' one was designed by AM under Gog Vandire's request and in prodution since that. So logically speaking - unless SoBs/Living Saint or Guilliman asks AM for improvement - they should basically stay same , but may get some new external equipment.

Inquisition on other hand isn't restricted by military logistics at all.
Lot of worlds during Crusade era produced their own types of PA (for.ex. Caliban) and technology is definitely not supressed by AM (Necromunda anyone?). So fluff-wise Inquisition PA could range from inferior(compared to SoB and SM ones) designs sold in bulk by advanced worlds to unique master-crafted pieces. Only inquisitor's personal influency and predispositions are limits - and AM willingness to comply to them.

It never had the same development as marine armour. The production of human power Armour outside sisters is not that high. You need serious money and power to get suits made.

Its technology is a more basic version of marine armour, it lacks the highly advanced systems that let marines use it like there own muscles.

Sisters have power packs. Not all even has a backpack reactor and just rechargeable power cells.

Sisters armour works well, they seem to be able to maintain production. So why change it?

And custoes power Armour is so rare and expensive they only make it for them. In that alloy. Its not even made of normal marine materials.

The only people who can usually afford power armour besides the Astartes (and Custodes and SoB) are powerful Inquisitors, insanely wealthy rogue traders and planetary governors etc. Basically, only really wealthy and/or influential people. That means there is not much use in mass-producing it, so therefore there are no marks. Power armour for normal humans tends to be custom made, so what it looks like depends on the individual maker or the wishes of the customer.

 jhe90 wrote:

Its technology is a more basic version of marine armour, it lacks the highly advanced systems that let marines use it like there own muscles.

IIR HH books correctly, SM armour is pattern of 'basic' STC tweaked for TW/SM physiology, Crusade operational/logistical needs and industrial base. There were mentions on 'how LOCAL - ie non-Imperial - technologies/armours themselves are similar to SM ones' both in Lion and Horus books.
Actually some human versions can be containing more advanced MS - without direct interface input from black carapace it need to predict wearers' needs and often react without input from wearer.

OTOH there were several mentions that to wear TDA armour somehow effectively some Inquisitors received extensive surgery and neural interface implantation - with lasting unpleasant physical consequences - to substitute said black carapace. Thus most probably there's no properly 'human' version of TDA.
Also it means that if Primaris armour can be fitted to common-sized humans - it could be used by Inquisition too.
But AFAIK there's no reason for that - with baseline human performance Terminator armour can at least trade speed for toughness while even Gravis armour offers less protection than TDA. Unless Gravis is way easier to procure...

The marine PA has marks because it's been standardized over time for the optimal blend of performance vs cost vs ease of maintenance. It must be durable enough that the user can keep it working in the field with only occasional help from a techmarine. One size fits all, at a "reasonable" price.

The suit an inquisitor or rich rogue trader wears can easily be more advanced and perform better because he threw enough money at it to outfit ten marines and has his own personal staff just to maintain that one suit, and maybe a personal tech priest. He's still not a marine though.

Squat exo-armour

chyron wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

Its technology is a more basic version of marine armour, it lacks the highly advanced systems that let marines use it like there own muscles.

IIR HH books correctly, SM armour is pattern of 'basic' STC tweaked for TW/SM physiology, Crusade operational/logistical needs and industrial base. There were mentions on 'how LOCAL - ie non-Imperial - technologies/armours themselves are similar to SM ones' both in Lion and Horus books.
Actually some human versions can be containing more advanced MS - without direct interface input from black carapace it need to predict wearers' needs and often react without input from wearer.

OTOH there were several mentions that to wear TDA armour somehow effectively some Inquisitors received extensive surgery and neural interface implantation - with lasting unpleasant physical consequences - to substitute said black carapace. Thus most probably there's no properly 'human' version of TDA.
Also it means that if Primaris armour can be fitted to common-sized humans - it could be used by Inquisition too.
But AFAIK there's no reason for that - with baseline human performance Terminator armour can at least trade speed for toughness while even Gravis armour offers less protection than TDA. Unless Gravis is way easier to procure...

Intresting and though even among inquisition. Human scale terminator armour is meant to be rare.

They cannot make ernough suits to supply marines. Yet alone extras for others.

And yes. Though we not yet seem any human usage of gravis or mk10. It might be useful d but they not had time to depevelop fluff.

Plus its scale is crazy vs humans though. I dunno. It still needs a black car pace like all marine armour to function to full efficency.

Without you lose many auto and such functions.

And human custodes armour is, will be and about as impossible as Kharn the betrayer being a chill guy and hugging people gently out of love...

But Kharn does hug people out of love...
Love for slaughter that is, and his hugs are known to be rather deadly. Pretty fun guy to be around.

Space Marine power armor is probably leaps above and beyond the 'basic' power armor suits used by normal humans, thus the problems involved in producing it.

Power armor for normal people probably isn't nearly as difficult, just expensive in terms of the AdMech's asking price both for the armor and ongoing maintenance.

I'm not store why terminator armour is so rare. It's based on suits for maintenance inside plasma reactors and you would think that the Imperium would need an awful lot of such suits give that plasma reactors appear to be their most widespread power source.

 Flinty wrote:
I'm not store why terminator armour is so rare. It's based on suits for maintenance inside plasma reactors and you would think that the Imperium would need an awful lot of such suits give that plasma reactors appear to be their most widespread power source.

Beacise it was a old pattern of plasma suit, old is advanced.
Certain parts are slow to produce and it requires alot of advanced materials and parts to manufacture as a whole.

Post Hersey the skills to make it where lost.
So they can still make it but only very slowly as skills and knowledge is not entirely complete.

Terminator is converted from that role. Its not exactly the same armour they used for void and plasma work.

 jhe90 wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
I'm not store why terminator armour is so rare. It's based on suits for maintenance inside plasma reactors and you would think that the Imperium would need an awful lot of such suits give that plasma reactors appear to be their most widespread power source.

Beacise it was a old pattern of plasma suit, old is advanced.
Certain parts are slow to produce and it requires alot of advanced materials and parts to manufacture as a whole.

Post Hersey the skills to make it where lost.
So they can still make it but only very slowly as skills and knowledge is not entirely complete.

Terminator is converted from that role. Its not exactly the same armour they used for void and plasma work.

Except recent fluff says that's actually untrue. Augmetic Engine-plate with comparable protection to power armor is still produced, and, at least in the Rogue Trader rpg, is the 'most common' type of power armor when one wishes to make an acquisition test. It grants total immunity to flame weapons and protection from energy weapons nearly on par with actual terminator armor.

The Sisters' armour is a standard design - it's called Sabbat Pattern.

Ir would be interesting if some secessionist empire started producing imitation space marines using a local supply of human sized Power Armour (like the imitation Roman legions adopted by Pontus, the Seleucids and the Numidians in the ancient world).

Most Imperial citizens will never have seen a space marine, so a normal bloke in shiny armour with a sufficiently fancy hat might be enough to convince them! Great way to legitimise your rule and ensure the people protect you from Imperial reprisals

I suspect size would be the needed element - genebulked humans or the like.

Human-sized armour seems to be for the most part little more than power-assisted carapace, the servos just there to allow for greater coverage and heavier plates. Well within the means of a suitably motivated secessionist.

chyron wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

Its technology is a more basic version of marine armour, it lacks the highly advanced systems that let marines use it like there own muscles.

IIR HH books correctly, SM armour is pattern of 'basic' STC tweaked for TW/SM physiology, Crusade operational/logistical needs and industrial base. There were mentions on 'how LOCAL - ie non-Imperial - technologies/armours themselves are similar to SM ones' both in Lion and Horus books.
Actually some human versions can be containing more advanced MS - without direct interface input from black carapace it need to predict wearers' needs and often react without input from wearer.

OTOH there were several mentions that to wear TDA armour somehow effectively some Inquisitors received extensive surgery and neural interface implantation - with lasting unpleasant physical consequences - to substitute said black carapace. Thus most probably there's no properly 'human' version of TDA.
Also it means that if Primaris armour can be fitted to common-sized humans - it could be used by Inquisition too.
But AFAIK there's no reason for that - with baseline human performance Terminator armour can at least trade speed for toughness while even Gravis armour offers less protection than TDA. Unless Gravis is way easier to procure...

Inquisitor Amberely Vail has her own artificer suit but also a special tech body glove which allows her to better interface with the suit much as the Black Carapace does, but she also has the resources and tech support to maintain it - and even she does not have them for her retinue.

A.T. wrote:
I suspect size would be the needed element - genebulked humans or the like.

Human-sized armour seems to be for the most part little more than power-assisted carapace, the servos just there to allow for greater coverage and heavier plates. Well within the means of a suitably motivated secessionist.

Haha that's a cool idea, basically Goliath gangers in knock off power armour being used to extort 'tithes' out of local planets on behalf of an unscrupulous noble house!

I've always wondered why there are so *few* marks of Power Armour actually. When you consider armour development and variety on one planet (Earth) in the Middle Ages alone, there was a mind boggling array. In a galaxy of millions of worlds, there must be hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of different designs of Powered Armour...

Sisters of Battle power armors certainly have a Mark system since they are all identical. Their helmet is called the Sabbat Pattern. We can thus extrapolate that their armor also has a pattern. In fact, its probable that much like the Space Marines they have passed through several Patterns, but probably far less than the 10 or so of the Adeptus Astartes. The only "problem" is that GW has never designed more than one model of SoB and thus doesn't have to explain design changes in models within the universe itself. Should SoB have a new release that changes a bit the look of their power armor, you will see the addition of Marks within their fluff. Ironically, since the Sisters of Battle are a much younger organisation, its probable that their power armors were themselves a modification of the pre-existing Sisters of Silence power armor since both were designed for elite, female human praetorian guards and witch huntresses.

Inquisitors, Rogue Traders, bounty hunters, certain Astra Militarum generals who have power armors probably have them custom made by artisans and magos and thus are probably heavily modified models that belong to no specific Mark, but that could be identified to some Space Marines, Sister of Battle, Sister of Silence or even pre-Heresy model, but with a lot of modifications.

Marine power armour is all descended from the Emperors initial order for void-capable armour from Mars - there wouldn't be other variants of that type because it all started with the Astartes and Thunder Warriors.

Human scale (and armour for whatever passed for gene-warriors during the dark ages) would have been much more varied and probably gathered up/stamped out by the mechanicum during the crusades.

The SoB stuff is probably tied to their contracts with Mars. The Ecclesiarchy have a history of trading STC fragments and similar found by the faithful for service in perpetuity.

(SoB armour also appears nearly identical to that used by the noble matriarchs of Necromunda, for what it's worth)

ThunderCracker wrote:

I've always wondered why there are so *few* marks of Power Armour actually. When you consider armour development and variety on one planet (Earth) in the Middle Ages alone, there was a mind boggling array. In a galaxy of millions of worlds, there must be hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of different designs of Powered Armour...

Look at the miniatures, though. Even within a single mark (say, mark 7), there's dozens of different helmet styles, even things like the backpacks, the arm and leg armour (look at the different placement of panel lines, vents, etc), cable routes, and that's just the visible differences. We know from the Forge World books that different patterns of weaponry can be visually identical, so there's probably a Fenris-Pattern mark 7 suit, a Macragge pattern, a Nocturne-pattern, etc, etc.

epronovost wrote:
Sisters of Battle power armors certainly have a Mark system since they are all identical.

Sisters' armors are the identical in models because those models are very very old, but I expect each one of them being the result of the craftmanship of an artisan with a vision, dedicating his whole life to the making of ONE armor. Not them being mass-produced like the cheap, disposable throw-away models of marines that have marks.

I mean, it's pretty clear that the Ecclesiarchy has way more money than marines so they should be using that money somewhere, and it's not currently on better tanks or flyers or weapons, so...

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

epronovost wrote:
Sisters of Battle power armors certainly have a Mark system since they are all identical.

Sisters' armors are the identical in models because those models are very very old, but I expect each one of them being the result of the craftmanship of an artisan with a vision, dedicating his whole life to the making of ONE armor. Not them being mass-produced like the cheap, disposable throw-away models of marines that have marks.

I mean, it's pretty clear that the Ecclesiarchy has way more money than marines so they should be using that money somewhere, and it's not currently on better tanks or flyers or weapons, so...

Yeah fluff wise I'd also imagine some difference slightly in what's coming out of diffrent forge worlds and indevidual forge cities. Not big just probbly minor astetic choices that differ slightly. A suit produced on Mars may be identical in function and digger in a diffrent shape shoulder guard, a raised neck guard or diffrent detailing.

The suits function perfectly same. However minor visual and designs differences are going to happen by sheet fact of being made in different places.

 jhe90 wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
I'm not store why terminator armour is so rare. It's based on suits for maintenance inside plasma reactors and you would think that the Imperium would need an awful lot of such suits give that plasma reactors appear to be their most widespread power source.

Beacise it was a old pattern of plasma suit, old is advanced.
Certain parts are slow to produce and it requires alot of advanced materials and parts to manufacture as a whole.

Post Hersey the skills to make it where lost.
So they can still make it but only very slowly as skills and knowledge is not entirely complete.

Terminator is converted from that role. Its not exactly the same armour they used for void and plasma work.

I imagine it's the adaptation that makes them rare and difficult to make. For example they replace the steel/whatever plates with adamantium/whatever and both making the terminator plates and adapting the armor to them.

Then you have to include the stuff a work suit does not need, a teleport homer, grenade launchers, a power fist.

Finally you have to make it self contained. Presumbly a work suit can use cables and tubes and tethers to get air, power, etc but a combat suit cannot.

And of course you don't want everyone else to get ahold of this, since your loyal marines might be fighting them at some point...