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Are there any great, or even decent, science fantasy book series? Star Wars has had such a tremendous effect on cinema and even television that I am surprised we see so few unabashed science fantasy novels. I suspect Black Library has as much success as they did a decade ago because 40k became the only recent "big name" in a market that wasn't being served. So, what books have magic powers and lasers, mystics and spaceships?

Off the top of my head, I can only think of tie-ins, soft sci fi (psionics and maybe superpowers inhabiting a sci fi universe as opposed to a fantastical cosmology with magic baked in), and the ever-popular Dying Earth style post-apoc wizards and cyborgs stories. Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman wrote a trilogy to capture the market years ago, but it seems to have been forgotten (and since I only made it 50 pages in I can see why). Simon Green's Deathstalker series toed the edge, but it's much more like a comic book in my opinion. Some of Lovecraft's works featured conventional aliens (elder things) interacting with supernatural (sort of) beings like Cthulhu and Yog Sothoth, but never for more than a hint of history. Are Darkover or The Wizard In Spite of Himself at all fun? What am I missing?


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Any thoughts on why the genre is so sparse in paper when it launched the largest film franchise ever?

Here's a really good one!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deathstalker_(series)

Maybe it went on too long?

Nah - I love it!

 Alpharius wrote:
Here's a really good one!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deathstalker_(series)

Maybe it went on too long?

Nah - I love it!

Yeah, good call. I did enjoy that series. However, it felt much more like a comic book series to me because of the focus on different special powers and psionics. I felt it also broke the Dragonball Z threshold in terms of power creep and superpower-butt-pulls, although I considered that more a feature than a bug.



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Come to think of it, are there more series out there like Deathstalker?

How does one define Sci-Fantasy? What about Dune?

Fred Saberhagen's Books of Swords and Empire of the East stories might qualify as sci-fantasy. They are set in the very distant future after a devastating (nuclear) war. Not typical post-apocalyptic stuff, though, but rather a fantasy story with swords, wizards, gods, demons, and even some remnants of high technology in it. The stories were written in the 1980s I think, and I'm not sure how easy they would be to find these days. I read my dad's copies of them.

 ingtaer wrote:
How does one define Sci-Fantasy? What about Dune?

Eh, I'm sure each person has his or her own threshold, but I tend to think of things like psionics (telekinesis, telepathy, precognition), energy-based "God-like" life forms, grey goo nanotechnology and the like as soft sci fi because they are so common in space opera. I feel like any definition of Science Fantasy that includes Star Trek, Babylon 5 and Stargate is too broad to make a meaningful distinction as a subgenre. Ideally, Science Fantasy would have the feel or trappings of a fantasy story, but also include spaceships, robots, lasers, and that kind of thing.

I've only read the first Dune book, so I can't speak to the sequels, but it had the same kind of feeling for me as old science fiction, with the effects of the spice and the Kwisatz Haderach being closer in kin to, say, psychohistory and The Mule than to spell casting and prophecy.


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 ZergSmasher wrote:
Fred Saberhagen's Books of Swords and Empire of the East stories might qualify as sci-fantasy. They are set in the very distant future after a devastating (nuclear) war. Not typical post-apocalyptic stuff, though, but rather a fantasy story with swords, wizards, gods, demons, and even some remnants of high technology in it. The stories were written in the 1980s I think, and I'm not sure how easy they would be to find these days. I read my dad's copies of them.

I've yet to finish that series or start Empire of the East. Is it fun? How does it compare to the Dying Earth stories?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Fred Saberhagen's Books of Swords and Empire of the East stories might qualify as sci-fantasy. They are set in the very distant future after a devastating (nuclear) war. Not typical post-apocalyptic stuff, though, but rather a fantasy story with swords, wizards, gods, demons, and even some remnants of high technology in it. The stories were written in the 1980s I think, and I'm not sure how easy they would be to find these days. I read my dad's copies of them.

I've yet to finish that series or start Empire of the East. Is it fun? How does it compare to the Dying Earth stories?

I don't know the Dying Earth stories, so I can't comment about that, but I would say the Swords stories are some of the best I've ever read. Very fun reading indeed!

You invoked the spirit of Jack Vance!

All is forgiven!

 Alpharius wrote:
You invoked the spirit of Jack Vance!

All is forgiven!

Jack Vance is awesome.

ZergSmasher wrote:Fred Saberhagen's Books of Swords and Empire of the East stories might qualify as sci-fantasy. They are set in the very distant future after a devastating (nuclear) war. Not typical post-apocalyptic stuff, though, but rather a fantasy story with swords, wizards, gods, demons, and even some remnants of high technology in it. The stories were written in the 1980s I think, and I'm not sure how easy they would be to find these days. I read my dad's copies of them.

So basically Thundarr the Barbarian?






I wish I could contribute to this more, but I tend to read science fiction or pure fantasy with no dabbling in science.

Lots of Michael Moorcock:

The Dancers at the End of Time trilogy
The Hawkmoon series
The Jerry Cornelius quartet (arguably)
The Nomad of the Time Streams trilogy (semi-modern steampunk)

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
You invoked the spirit of Jack Vance!

All is forgiven!

Jack Vance is awesome.

He's my all-time favorite author, and I cannot recommend his stuff highly enough!

His SF stuff isn't so much Science-Fantasy, but I'd still say everyone should read his Planet of Adventure and Demon Princes series!

(And yes, everything else too, but you've got to start somewhere!)

 Just Tony wrote:

ZergSmasher wrote:Fred Saberhagen's Books of Swords and Empire of the East stories might qualify as sci-fantasy. They are set in the very distant future after a devastating (nuclear) war. Not typical post-apocalyptic stuff, though, but rather a fantasy story with swords, wizards, gods, demons, and even some remnants of high technology in it. The stories were written in the 1980s I think, and I'm not sure how easy they would be to find these days. I read my dad's copies of them.

So basically Thundarr the Barbarian?






I wish I could contribute to this more, but I tend to read science fiction or pure fantasy with no dabbling in science.

There's a whole subgenre about a fantasy world built on the ashes of our future civilization. Vance's Dying Earth stories were the first, as far as I know, and still hold up really well. His magic mechanics influenced DnD heavily. He also wrote The Last Castle, which is a more sci fi version of the setting, but still weird. The next best known works are Gene Wolf's New Urth series, which inspired Warhammer to some extent. They are much slower, more serious books, though, so I've only read the first one or two? Viriconium has a similar setting, but becomes more abstract and depressing as it goes. Saberhagen apparently comes highly recommended. (I read a few of his stories when the sci fi Berserker was his big hit.). Stephen King's Dark Tower 3: The Wasteland is a very good book in a similar setting; in fact all four of his good Dark Tower novels are worth reading if you like the genre. I'm sure there are more examples of the genre I'm forgetting, but it's got a rich set of themes and tropes, almost always with a heaping helping of "WTF is that thing??" to keep a reader entertained.


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 Kilkrazy wrote:
Lots of Michael Moorcock:

The Dancers at the End of Time trilogy
The Hawkmoon series
The Jerry Cornelius quartet (arguably)
The Nomad of the Time Streams trilogy (semi-modern steampunk)

Sweet. I have the Hawkmoon trilogy ready to go, in the trunk of my car. Thanks for the recommendations!

I'll have to look into the others. Not sure on the Jerry Cornelius one, but that could just be my gut reaction to the cover art.


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 Alpharius wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
You invoked the spirit of Jack Vance!

All is forgiven!

Jack Vance is awesome.

He's my all-time favorite author, and I cannot recommend his stuff highly enough!

His SF stuff isn't so much Science-Fantasy, but I'd still say everyone should read his Planet of Adventure and Demon Princes series!

(And yes, everything else too, but you've got to start somewhere!)

He was one of my father's favorites, too, along with Keith Laumer. I'll have to get those other series, because they don't seem to be in my collection.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

ZergSmasher wrote:Fred Saberhagen's Books of Swords and Empire of the East stories might qualify as sci-fantasy. They are set in the very distant future after a devastating (nuclear) war. Not typical post-apocalyptic stuff, though, but rather a fantasy story with swords, wizards, gods, demons, and even some remnants of high technology in it. The stories were written in the 1980s I think, and I'm not sure how easy they would be to find these days. I read my dad's copies of them.

So basically Thundarr the Barbarian?






I wish I could contribute to this more, but I tend to read science fiction or pure fantasy with no dabbling in science.

There's a whole subgenre about a fantasy world built on the ashes of our future civilization. Vance's Dying Earth stories were the first, as far as I know, and still hold up really well. His magic mechanics influenced DnD heavily. He also wrote The Last Castle, which is a more sci fi version of the setting, but still weird. The next best known works are Gene Wolf's New Urth series, which inspired Warhammer to some extent. They are much slower, more serious books, though, so I've only read the first one or two? Viriconium has a similar setting, but becomes more abstract and depressing as it goes. Saberhagen apparently comes highly recommended. (I read a few of his stories when the sci fi Berserker was his big hit.). Stephen King's Dark Tower 3: The Wasteland is a very good book in a similar setting; in fact all four of his good Dark Tower novels are worth reading if you like the genre. I'm sure there are more examples of the genre I'm forgetting, but it's got a rich set of themes and tropes, almost always with a heaping helping of "WTF is that thing??" to keep a reader entertained.

Pier's Anthony's Battle Circle trilogy was another example. As is the Pern series, in a way. They're mostly pretty straightforward stories about a medievalish civilisation with firebreathing dragons. Except not - they're the descendants of a human colony that regressed due to a natural disaster. The sci-fi elements come back after a while.

As well as Dune, I'd suggest Adrian Cole's Star Requiem series (Mother of Storms, Thief of Dreams, Warlord of Heaven and Labyrinth of Worlds) which features the remnants of a future human galactic empire being pursued across dimensions by an implacable alien race, carried by a ... demon, really ... to a parallel universe in exchange for a massive blood sacrifice, to a planet which may be alive, and where the human chief scientist is as comfortable with magic and necromancy as he is with genetic engineering. David Zindell's Neverness and the sequel Requiem for Homo Sapiens trilogy too. All three of these series are fairly obviously SF settings, but it's the tone that makes them feel like fantasy to me - it's very mystical, spiritual.

Or Jeff Noon's Vurt - Cyberpunk meets dreamland meets Manchester in the rain. I don't think I can adequately explain the books any more than that.

You sold me on the Star Requiem series. Is it a completed series or still ongoing?

Completed. Published in 1989-1990
https://openroadmedia.com/search/adrian%20cole

For some reason I couldn't find them by searching on Amazon, but follow the links from that page and they seem to be available.

Ah. I found it now. Thanks!

Read one recently called Ilium by Dan Simmons. Worth a look.

 screaminskull wrote:
Read one recently called Ilium by Dan Simmons. Worth a look.

That one was good. I couldn't finish Olympos, though. Had the same issue trying to read Endymion after enjoying the Hyperion books. I just lost reading momentum between them. Perhaps I should revisit them. ..after Hawkmoon, Courts of the Crimson Kings and the Star Requiem series. And the other Jack Vance series. Never enough time.

On that score, has anyone read Zelazny's Lord of Light? Would you recommend it?

Not read Lord of Light, but now you come to mention Zelazny it brings back the memory of his Nine Princes of Amber series, which combine fantasy elements with parallel worlds and modern Earth.

Good call on Moorcock's Hawkmoon series!

The first 4 books for sure, but the next 3 kinda sorta wrap up the entire Eternal Champion series as a whole, so while they're still good and 'required reading' to finish Hawkmoon's story, it does get a bit out there at times!

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Ideally, Science Fantasy would have the feel or trappings of a fantasy story, but also include spaceships, robots, lasers, and that kind of thing.

The four books that make up The Book of the New Sun are like that, as is the rest of the Solar Cycle, but to a significantly lesser degree. Not much of a series in terms of length, they're all the sorts of books you need to read a couple times in order to really understand what's going on, especially the first quartet.

Technically the Dragons of Pern series of books by Anne McCaffrey would fit into this. You've got spacefaring and aliens coupled with a hard-sci-fi history yet many of the events of the early books at least, take place in a world that has a roughly more primitive level of technology that we'd closer associate with fantasy (plus its got dragons)


You might also count The Night's Dawn Trilogy by Peter F. Hamilton. That series leans closer toward what most would consider hard-sci-fi and yet Peter weaves it in such a way that its very fantastical in how it all plays out. Also via events in the story early on you get a very fantasy element appearing.

David Brins The Practice Effect is a fun read

It doesn’t quite fit the question, but Greg Bear’s Song of Earth and Power is an odd read; Greg Bear is known for fairly hard SF (Eon, Queen of Angels, Blood Music, Forge of God), but this book/duology is a fantasy epic.