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Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






I think GW are leaving an option for Chaos to have Primaris far into the future. Spoiler Alert:


In Dark Imperium Cawl inferior suggested using the fallen 9 legions and the two failed legions to be made into Primaris Chapters and Girlyman said np, and assumes that Cawl will continue research on that. So when things become stale with the lore, I think GW are giving themselves an option written into the lore to have new CSM, and it can easily be done, Chaos could invade Mars and steal the gene-tech, As a CSM player I don't know about that, but Primaris having 2 wounds and 2 attacks etc. Does annoy me, as we should be somewhat on a level playing ground. What are peoples opinion on that, because the Alpha legion and Omegon did steal the Primarch Project from Diliverence and the Raven Guard? And GW have learned that making new armies and models gives them the most money.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/07 12:07:42


 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

Maybe, but I nope not.
CSM have Plague Marines, Berserkers, Rubric Marines and Noise Marines.

Rather than create a whole new kind of Chaos Marine, I'd rather see these 4 get updated rules to make them on par with Primaris Marines

-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/07 13:00:30


   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






Yeah, I agree, because CSM have been gifted by the gods so GW can easily up their stats but I don't think they will when in the future they can make new models etc.
   
Made in gb
Lesser Daemon of Chaos





West Yorkshire

Delving into the novel fiction here but couldn't they just make the CSM Primaris equivalent the Daemonculaba rather than just turned primaris marines?
The Imperium get their genetically enchanced super marines bred since the great crusade, Chaos get mutated warp-enhanced Marines?

5000pts W4/ D0/ L5
5000pts W10/ D2/ L7
 
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






No they haven't, the enhanced marines were made during the horus heresy which were ended in Deliverance lost, when Omega stole the Primarch project, Cawl had to create completely new marines from the Emperors notes, which came after Deliverance. The Alpha legion has kept the Primarch proect for 10,000 years and have either not bothered to create more or they didn't have anyone like Cawl, to be able to create primaris or an enhanced CSM, and the 10,000 years has proven that. Unless they have and are waiting to use them.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/07 14:41:51


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
No they haven't, the enhanced marines during the horus heresy were ended in Deliverance lost, when Omega stole the Primarch project, Cawl had to create completely new marines from the Emperors notes, which came after Deliverance. The Alpha legion has kept the Primarch proect for 10,000 years and have either not bothered to create more or they didn't have anyone like Cawl, to be able to create primaris or an enhanced CSM, and the 10,000 years has proven that.

Isn't there a Chaos Character whose all about the knowledge of Space Marines. Oh yeah Fabius Bile. Chaos have had someone like Cawl since before Cawl was shoved in.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





pm713 wrote:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
No they haven't, the enhanced marines during the horus heresy were ended in Deliverance lost, when Omega stole the Primarch project, Cawl had to create completely new marines from the Emperors notes, which came after Deliverance. The Alpha legion has kept the Primarch proect for 10,000 years and have either not bothered to create more or they didn't have anyone like Cawl, to be able to create primaris or an enhanced CSM, and the 10,000 years has proven that.

Isn't there a Chaos Character whose all about the knowledge of Space Marines. Oh yeah Fabius Bile. Chaos have had someone like Cawl since before Cawl was shoved in.


yeah but chaos isnlt exactly one big happy family. the alpha legion may not want him to have that data, or the alpha legion may have given it to him already and thats where his primarch cloning came from

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Yeah, I agree, because CSM have been gifted by the gods so GW can easily up their stats but I don't think they will when in the future they can make new models etc.

Plague Marines and Rubrics just got flashy new models and Berserkers and Noise marines could use the update. DG just got updated and T-sons codex is also coming very soon. Now seems as as good at time as any to update the "Cult" marines to be tougher, or "blessed" in some way that makes them on par with Primaris Marines.

Plague Marines are T5 with Resilience (FNP) and already have models as big as Primaris
Rubrics, I'm sure will get some bonus, like reroll 1s for saving throws or something. Rubrics are also bigger than regular Marines
Berserkers would likely just get lots of attacks and str
Noise Marines are actually a good candidate for 2W as they might actually delight in the pain of the first wound. Although I think Emperors Children already get a 6+ Resistance save, so we'll have to wait and see.

In any case, the Cult marines should be the "Primaris" of Chaos, with models to match.

-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/07 15:37:51


   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

There is a lot more justification for Chaos Primaris that there is for Imperial Primaris, Fabulous Bill, Warp shenanigans etc.

Or ..... Cawl... the greatest mary sue in allllll of 40k's history, even Draigo hasnt got anything on this guy!.
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut




All chaos marines will be exchanged with Primaris models, it just takes time for GW to make the moulds, which is a significant and expensive undertaking when it comes to injection moulded plastics. Rubrics and Plague Marines are already primaris models, meaning that their scale blends well with next to primaris marine models. But CSM models has not been brought along with the scale creep, so they will get new sprues. In time even 30k will get primaris models I believe. The fluff can always be retconned to suit.
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





If you read the fluff behind Biles supermarines they've always been basically Primaris Marines, just a little unstable.

But personally I hope we'll see renegade Primaris at least in the background. So far Primaris are much too perfect for 40K, making every Marine (and Primarch!) before them appear stupid.
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






Cawl wasn't shoved in, he's been in the lore since the Deliverance lost novel which was in 2011, and he was creating new marines in that book. And Cawl isn't a Mary Sue, he's gotten all his inventions because he has been using forbidden technology through the years and Girlyman is allowing him to still use those, plus he is using xenos tech.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/02/07 19:08:59


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Right he just ignores the rules of his faction, gets away with breaking entrenched rules, goes against the direction of the entire setting and does something that nobody else including the pre existing expert managed.

Nope. Not a Mary Sue at all.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






Wrong, in the Mechanicum novel Koriel Zeth used forbidden technology to create the Akashic Reader, tonnes of forge masters have and have kept it secret.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/07 19:12:04


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Wrong, in the Mechanicum novel Koriel Zeth used forbidden technology to create the Akashic Reader, tonnes of forge masters have and have kept it secret.

They keep it a secret because it would get them killed. Then this new guy waltzes in and its all cool.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Cawl wasn't shoved in, he's been in the lore since the Deliverance lost novel which was in 2011, and he was creating new marines in that book. And Cawl isn't a Mary Sue, he's gotten all his inventions because he has been using forbidden technology through the years and Girlyman is allowing him to still use those, plus he is using xenos tech.


Having just read deliverance lost, that is so untrue I have no idea where to start....

You may not agree with how I described him, but saying he was in a book he was not in is just bad.
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






Corax got the Primarch project from the Emperor in which Cawl and Corax's Apothecary worked on. They realised that the Emperor could have created better marines, like little Primarchs, where they didn't need to use geneseed, they created a few but Omegon tainted them and then stole the Primarch project so start there. Cawl using forbidden technology is new lore its in Dark Imperium.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/07 19:34:30


 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Corax got the Primarch project from the Emperor in which Cawl and Corax's Apothecary. They realised that the Emperor could have created better marines, like little Primarchs, where they didn't need to use geneseed, they created a few but Omegon tainted them and then stole the Primarch project so start there.


Corax got the primarch project from a lab with the info the emp gave him, he returned with it to deliverence, he got his apothecary and a magos that IS NOT CAWL, why are you making this up dude? have you actually read the book ?
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Lexicanum says it was a 'Nexin Orlandriaz' as well. Which sounds nothing like Belisariius Cawl.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






He waltzes in because Girlyman allows him to research new technology. The only people with a problem with Cawl don't actually know the lore. I've seen the whole backlash where people think he just suddenly popped out of nowhere and that Primaris marines are not possible in the lore.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Oh and just in case you try to argue it, the gene smiths name

Nexin Orlandriaz, Mechanicum genetor



Automatically Appended Next Post:
pm713 wrote:
Lexicanum says it was a 'Nexin Orlandriaz' as well. Which sounds nothing like Belisariius Cawl.


I didnt think of looking on lexi, I just opened my book, literally finished it last night

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/07 19:39:09


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
He waltzes in because Girlyman allows him to research new technology. The only people with a problem with Cawl don't actually know the lore. I've seen the whole backlash where people think he just suddenly popped out of nowhere and that Primaris marines are not possible in the lore.

I know the lore. I suspect very much you're lying about the one point you can make that indicates Cawl didn't pop up from nowhere like a Mary Sue.

Cawl is a bad character made by bad writing because he was only made to push models. You can argue against that all you like but without any evidence you're just repeating an opinion with no backup or reasoning except to be the cool anti majority guy.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






Lexicanum is wrong.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
He waltzes in because Girlyman allows him to research new technology. The only people with a problem with Cawl don't actually know the lore. I've seen the whole backlash where people think he just suddenly popped out of nowhere and that Primaris marines are not possible in the lore.


I know the lore, clearly better than you do, he did just waltz in from nowhere, Cawl did not exist at all in any way shape or form prior to the gathering storm series, introducing new characters is fine as long as it fits within the setting, throwing a captain picard into the 40k universe wouldnt work, and throwing a mechanicum Arch Magos that is better at tech than anyone else that has ever existed in the Imperium, including the creator of the marines themselves, doesnt fit.

Primaris are possible in the lore, but not from some chump who was shoe horned into the fluff with no explanation or backstory.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
pm713 wrote:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
He waltzes in because Girlyman allows him to research new technology. The only people with a problem with Cawl don't actually know the lore. I've seen the whole backlash where people think he just suddenly popped out of nowhere and that Primaris marines are not possible in the lore.

I know the lore. I suspect very much you're lying about the one point you can make that indicates Cawl didn't pop up from nowhere like a Mary Sue.

Cawl is a bad character made by bad writing because he was only made to push models. You can argue against that all you like but without any evidence you're just repeating an opinion with no backup or reasoning except to be the cool anti majority guy.


you are right PM, its a lie, and now he is trying to cover it up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Lexicanum is wrong.


DRAMATIS PERSONAE
The Emperor, Master of Mankind
Primarchs
Corvus Corax, Primarch of the Raven Guard Legion
Rogal Dorn, Primarch of the Imperial Fists Legion
Alpharius/Omegon, Twin primarchs of the Alpha Legion
Horus, Warmaster, Primarch of the Sons of Horus
The Raven Guard Legion
Branne Nev, Commander of the Raptors
Agapito Nev, Commander of the Talons
Solaro An, Commander of the Hawks
Aloni Tev, Commander of the Falcons
Lancrato Nestil, Sergeant of the Talons
Hadraig Dor, Sergeant of the Talons
Keremi Ort, Battle-brother of the Talons
Balsar Kurthuri, Battle-brother of the Talons
Lukar Fereni, Battle-brother of the Talons
Marko Diz, Battle-brother of the Talons
Stradon Binalt, Techmarine
Vincente Sixx, Chief Apothecary
Navar Hef, Novitiate
The Traitor Legions
‘Alpharius, ’ The Alpha Legionnaires
Ezekyle Abaddon, First Captain of the Sons of Horus
Erebus, First Chaplain of the Word Bearers
Fabius, Apothecary of the Emperor’s Children
Hasten Luthris Armanitan, Captain of the Emperor’s Children
Imperial Personae
Malcador the Sigillite, First Lord of Terra.
Marcus Valerius, Praefector of the Imperial Army, commander of the Therion Cohort
Nexin Orlandriaz, Mechanicum genetor
Pelon, Manservant to Marcus Valerius
Arcatus Vindix Centurio, Warrior of the Legio Custodes
Non-Imperial Personae
Athithirtir, An antedil, Envoy of the Cabal

Take it THE ACTUAL BOOK IS WRONG TOO, hahaha stop lying man, your wrong.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/07 19:45:49


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Lexicanum is wrong.

But Formosa has the book and is saying that it's correct.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Oh and this is straight from the book...... not Lexi
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






Its not a lie I just fethed up.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Okay. Then you are not a liar. But Cawl did appear from nowhere in that case.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






Yup.
   
Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

Gathering Storm has just ruined the setting
Yeah, I have always thought Chaos Marines should be a bit better than imperial ones.

   
 
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