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It started well, with only the indexes and no experience. My warriors and Immortals where reanimating all game long. Paired with Anakazyr and Orikan and a ghost ark, my warriors had 2 attack each, 5++ save and two 4+ protocol, raising back 75% of my troops every turn.

Then people realised they had to focus fire, obliterating one unit at a time, to prevent reanimation protocols, so my faction's defining trait was rendered useless.

With the codexes the meta quickly switched to swarm armies with bloats of dozens of cheap 5-8points soldiers that are more unkillable than my 12 points warriors. Almost all codexes have them now, or at least its those codexes that are played.

Tesla immortal and MWBD was apparently a good combo, until those -1 to hit aura effect spawned everywhere.

Quantum shield seemed good, until people realised 2-wounds weapons are the sweet spot to get rid of those doomsday ark quickly.

We don't have bunch of rerolls like others do, at beat we reroll 1s to hit.

No psyker, almost no deny the witch (who takes a spider, seriously?), so Magnus always ends up in my ass with a 3++ save i can't do anything about. Wasted 200 shots on him one game.

They threw us a nice treat in the Chapter approved book, apparently, giving 2 points stratagems to reanimate Wraith (bye-bye Triarch pretorians, it was a fun 6 months) or to reroll 1s on protocols. But since you can't use both at the same time, and that Wraith will usually be far upfield, away from that essential Cryptek, paying 2 points to reanimate on 5+ is expensive, doesn't work well.

Don't get me started with Monoliths! I played a few games with 2! Launching small units of lychguard or flayed ones. Was fun. Not tournament winning by any means.

Only reliable dude i've had is C'tan the Nightbringner, Mr. Death himself, to stay behind fast units and kill important enemy characters. But that ain't enough to win.

SO what now? What do we need?

It seems to me a stratagem to reanimate an entirely whiped-out unit is the only thing that would make Necron viable again. Even making possible 2 battalions of 3 units of 5 immortals (85pts), so we can bulk-up on those stratagem point like the others do!

They mentioned that Necrons are getting the biggest change from Index to Codex, so it's hard to tell what they are going to do.

Well. Your Codex is next on the line so you shouldn't need to wait much more time!
Just pray to receive a good codex like Tyranids!

Yep, they've said during their seminar events that Necrons are going to receive a huge overhaul. I'd wait for the codex before losing hope.

I really hope a lot of the unit point costs are addressed. Necrons need point deductions across the board for almost every unit. Destroyers (and Heavy) need a huge point decrease for what they are at the moment for example.

They will most likely be using stratagems to bring back a lot of the flavour, I could imagine there being 15-20 stratagems easily.

Hopefully a 2CP (or maybe 3CP) stratagem that allows you to reanimate a fully destroyed unit. perhaps place D3+3 models as per deep strike rules and then immediately roll for Reanimation protocols taking into account any nearby buffs - like from a cryptek for example.

Additional random thoughts

Give Lychguard with shields back their ability to bounce mortal wounds back to the enemy - the same rule as Kastellan Robots and their refractor shields would be perfect - IE, on a save roll of a 6, bounce a mortal wound to the closest unit.

Doom Scythe needs to be reworked for it to ever be taken again. Give it the same rule as Mortarions Lantern, draw a line from one unit to the next and every unit underneath takes D3 hits or something.

Rework transports entirely. Monoliths and Night Scythes are great for bringing in infantry, but the whole Tomb World setup mechanic and losing them when the vehicles are destroyed is terrible. A possible stratagem here to allow DS even after losing your transports would help.

Quite probable that there will be 6 Dynasty traits with the usual suspects.. such as -1 to hit at 12" or more, reroll Morale, treat rapid weapons as assault when advancing etc

I miss all the trinkets and wargear that used to be around (oh pokeball., how I miss you). They could be used to build quite unique and fun overlords. More than likely they will bring some of these back in the form of Relics.

Fingers crossed! We should have the codex by end of March according to rumours.

I'm kind of scared for the Necron codex, in that it might be too good. I really think that RPs and quantum shielding are in a good spot for power/fluff and that, yes, Necrons definitely need some support...

...

...BUT I think they'd also be the easiest army to accidentally overtune into OP status. Especially as we're expecting major changes along the lines of significant mobility increases or RP bonuses. Canoptek Harvest of late comes to mind.

 Galas wrote:
Well. Your Codex is next on the line so you shouldn't need to wait much more time!
Just pray to receive a good codex like Tyranids!

My understanding is that Necrons are third in line, after Drukhari and Tau.

I think Necrons might be an army that's designed to work with stratagems, similar to how Chaos Daemons didn't really function the way they were intended until they got their stratagems. If the codex turns out to be good I know I'm changing my avatar to Xun'bakyr and going back to my 7E army.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Well. Your Codex is next on the line so you shouldn't need to wait much more time!
Just pray to receive a good codex like Tyranids!

My understanding is that Necrons are third in line, after Drukhari and Tau.

I think Necrons might be an army that's designed to work with stratagems, similar to how Chaos Daemons didn't really function the way they were intended until they got their stratagems. If the codex turns out to be good I know I'm changing my avatar to Xun'bakyr and going back to my 7E army.

Same here with Tau's

HuskyWarhammer wrote:
I'm kind of scared for the Necron codex, in that it might be too good.

Given Necron codex history releases, this is probably the most likely outcome, as pretty much every release they've ever had going back to 2E has seen them emerge extremely powerfully, much like Eldar

Necrons have never really had any release that wasn't stellar for its time, at least in terms of power level, with the exception of the 8E Index list.

We know so little about what's coming in the necron codex, most other factions could see the writing on the wall, but there is no faction that functions like necrons that we can draw conclusions from. With that said I'm cautiously optimistic, if for no other reasons than the recent codexes have been good, and it's kind of hard to get worse.

My problem with Necrons is that they are the most technologically advanced faction in 40k but their rules really don't make it feel this way. Only Quantum Shielding, and Reanimation to a lesser extent, really makes me think of their superior technology. Everything else just feels like the things everyone else has but very slightly better. In some cases, like the bigger Tesla guns, they just feel like they're outdated technology because they're so weak.

Points drops are definitely needed on quite a few units, but Necrons aren't supposed to be a horde army so GW can't go too far with that. I'd prefer to see them get a bunch of upgrades on the weaker units that really make them feel technologically superior. A good example would be Necron anti-tank: it's among the worst in the game right now. I'd love to see the return of the Tachyon Arrow for all characters and for our ant-tank guns to be extremely dangerous to compensate for the lack of flexibility in the army design. Yes, Heavy Destroyers are pretty scary when they shoot, but I don't think GW realised how trivial it is to remove a small squad of T5 3W models in 8th edition.

Quantum Shielding actually contributes to this problem for Necrons. We don't have too many 2-wound models so most plasma or similar weapons are targeted at our QS vehicles to get around their defence. That leaves the heavier weapons that do flat 3 or D6 damage often going against our 3-wound units like Destroyers and Wraiths. Normally you don't mind lascannons targeting an Ogryn because it's not shooting your vehicles but in the Necron's case we actually help our enemies make the correct target priority decisions.

Annihilation barges need to be able to field heavy gauss cannons. I mean, look at it, you can totally put a heavy gauss onto that.

Anyway, I'm not sure if necrons will be the last of the three. They did release a cryptek, and it doesn't make sense for them to tease a necron model, then release a couple of other armies before letting you buy the model they teased.

Also, going by Chapter Approved, I can infer the following will happening -

- Going by the reintroduction of the veil of darkness, we will probably get the classic necron wargear, such as solar pulse and nightmare shroud, as relics

- Going by the warlord traits and statagems, a lot of them will probably work around durability; both stratagems involved RP and the Warlord trait reduced damage. So maybe the stratagems and Warlord traits will mostly involve making necrons survive for longer.

The problem with wargear options is that current policy seems to be that the model must be sold with that wargear option for it to be in the codex, so I don't expect to see much improvement (as GW are on a 2 year cycle of selling paper rather than new models right now).
Which is a shame, as I would like to have some long range shooting options. We lack a cheap platform for heavy weapons (having only rally Destroyers, Stalkers and Doomesday Arks, all of which cost a lot per heavy gauss cannon).

A return of Cryptek's long range shooty staff might help, and that may be the one new model we get (not sure what optional wargear it will come with apart from the goblin flyer yet...)

Anyway, it's not like I'm NOT going to buy the codex, whatever it contains...


Mark.

 Vaktathi wrote:

HuskyWarhammer wrote:
I'm kind of scared for the Necron codex, in that it might be too good.

Given Necron codex history releases, this is probably the most likely outcome, as pretty much every release they've ever had going back to 2E has seen them emerge extremely powerfully, much like Eldar

Necrons have never really had any release that wasn't stellar for its time, at least in terms of power level, with the exception of the 8E Index list.

Yeah if it comes out OP I won't be playing them.

Hope? No. In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war.

Slipspace wrote:My problem with Necrons is that they are the most technologically advanced faction in 40k but their rules really don't make it feel this way. Only Quantum Shielding, and Reanimation to a lesser extent, really makes me think of their superior technology. Everything else just feels like the things everyone else has but very slightly better. In some cases, like the bigger Tesla guns, they just feel like they're outdated technology because they're so weak.

Sure seems that way. Back ages ago the Gauss always damaging tanks on a 6 was pretty neat, but that's not just their jam anymore. I've not kept up with the editions as they've gone by, but I'm under the impression Reanimation doesn't quite work this edition?

I wonder if they can be made immune to AP (in part or in full) or something. Their thing is being Implacable, and all.

 Infantryman wrote:
Hope? No. In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war.

Slipspace wrote:My problem with Necrons is that they are the most technologically advanced faction in 40k but their rules really don't make it feel this way. Only Quantum Shielding, and Reanimation to a lesser extent, really makes me think of their superior technology. Everything else just feels like the things everyone else has but very slightly better. In some cases, like the bigger Tesla guns, they just feel like they're outdated technology because they're so weak.

Sure seems that way. Back ages ago the Gauss always damaging tanks on a 6 was pretty neat, but that's not just their jam anymore. I've not kept up with the editions as they've gone by, but I'm under the impression Reanimation doesn't quite work this edition?

I wonder if they can be made immune to AP (in part or in full) or something. Their thing is being Implacable, and all.

Oh, reanimation works just fine. Its just that it doesn't have the support of the rest of the army like in earlier editions.
In earlier editions RP / WBB had a bunch of other rules and equipment that work off of it, making it much more efficient and adding synergy to the army. In the Index a lot of those options are missing, and the options that do exist either only benefit really specific units, like the ghost working only on warriors, or the res orb having one use only (for a 35 point object...)

We have crypteks buffing RP significantly ... if you can keep them alive...

Res Orb is smelly pants right now (and I modelled it on most of my Lords since it used to be essential)

The problem of balancing RP versus focus fire is challenging. There should be counters to RP, but there should also be ways for Necrons to counter those counters...Maybe make the ressurection orb allow a wiped out unit to try and re-enter play if its last member was killed within 6" of the orb (with a penalty to the roll since there should still be some value to wiping the unit out)?

HuskyWarhammer wrote:
I'm kind of scared for the Necron codex, in that it might be too good. I really think that RPs and quantum shielding are in a good spot for power/fluff and that, yes, Necrons definitely need some support...

...

...BUT I think they'd also be the easiest army to accidentally overtune into OP status. Especially as we're expecting major changes along the lines of significant mobility increases or RP bonuses. Canoptek Harvest of late comes to mind.

Except we have an Errata/FAQ schedule now?

This post is really doom and gloom, it's a perfect Necron post!

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Also, going by Chapter Approved, I can infer the following will happening -

- Going by the reintroduction of the veil of darkness, we will probably get the classic necron wargear, such as solar pulse and nightmare shroud, as relics

- Going by the warlord traits and statagems, a lot of them will probably work around durability; both stratagems involved RP and the Warlord trait reduced damage. So maybe the stratagems and Warlord traits will mostly involve making necrons survive for longer.

Î THis

RP is the corner stone of Necrons, so any new stuff will revolve against it. Going from RP being merely a buffed feel no pain to the new version is actually pretty fluffy, but doesn't work. So i guess the easy fix is to bring RP stratagems. Reroll 1s from the reclamation legion is already in the Chapter approved, and RP on wraith comes from Canoptek harvest. Perhaps an army-wide RP4+ without crytek, as the decurion detachment gave us? This won't stack with other RP buffs though.

Betting 5$ on that 3CP: roll RP for all destroyed units, respawn near Cryptek.

I think there is a very good chance RP is going to be different.

Synapse, Instinctive Behavior, and SitW all got updated in the nid dex and none of them worked as poorly as RP.

 Infantryman wrote:
Hope? No. In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war.

Slipspace wrote:My problem with Necrons is that they are the most technologically advanced faction in 40k but their rules really don't make it feel this way. Only Quantum Shielding, and Reanimation to a lesser extent, really makes me think of their superior technology. Everything else just feels like the things everyone else has but very slightly better. In some cases, like the bigger Tesla guns, they just feel like they're outdated technology because they're so weak.

Sure seems that way. Back ages ago the Gauss always damaging tanks on a 6 was pretty neat, but that's not just their jam anymore. I've not kept up with the editions as they've gone by, but I'm under the impression Reanimation doesn't quite work this edition?

I wonder if they can be made immune to AP (in part or in full) or something. Their thing is being Implacable, and all.

I'm hoping that they bring back Gauss as a deadly counter to Vehicles like in previous editions. I'd like to see something like on a wound roll of a 6+ (so it can stack with any wound modifiers) it causes D3 damage instead. Would definitely make mass Warrior fire a deadly threat to vehicles again. Could even go as far to say on a hit roll of 6+ it causes an automatic wound perhaps

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 Infantryman wrote:
Hope? No. In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war.

Slipspace wrote:My problem with Necrons is that they are the most technologically advanced faction in 40k but their rules really don't make it feel this way. Only Quantum Shielding, and Reanimation to a lesser extent, really makes me think of their superior technology. Everything else just feels like the things everyone else has but very slightly better. In some cases, like the bigger Tesla guns, they just feel like they're outdated technology because they're so weak.

Sure seems that way. Back ages ago the Gauss always damaging tanks on a 6 was pretty neat, but that's not just their jam anymore. I've not kept up with the editions as they've gone by, but I'm under the impression Reanimation doesn't quite work this edition?

I wonder if they can be made immune to AP (in part or in full) or something. Their thing is being Implacable, and all.

I'm hoping that they bring back Gauss as a deadly counter to Vehicles like in previous editions. I'd like to see something like on a wound roll of a 6+ (so it can stack with any wound modifiers) it causes D3 damage instead. Would definitely make mass Warrior fire a deadly threat to vehicles again. Could even go as far to say on a hit roll of 6+ it causes an automatic wound perhaps

Ooh that does sound like fun.
They will probably drop the -1 AP bonus AP modifier for gauss weapons though to compensate. I hope they keep it though; gauss can actually pierce armor now, and that comes in handy.
How would such a rule work with weapons that deal more than 1 damage anyway though? Gauss Cannons, for example, already deal D3 damage, so dealing D3 damage on a wound roll of a six would be redundant.
Maybe instead it should be +1 damage on a roll of a 6+ to wound if the target has the "vehicle" keyword. I would like it +1 damage against all targets, but that might overdo it.

Hmm I forgot about the D3 damage from the cannons. two options then

- either make different profiles for different weapons. So the Blasters could do D3 damage on a 6+ and the Cannons for example could do a flat 3 for example. Heavy Cannons could do D6 with a minimum of 3 (similar to Dune Crawler)
- make a universal rule for all Gauss to be an auto wound on a hit of 6+ like I said before, or even +1 to wound or perhaps an additional -1 AP

neither option is game breaking and would help add a bit of flavour again against vehicles.

There are only so many things you can make RP into, and it's more or less been all of them. You can either bring units back from the dead, but limit it in some way, or just ignore damage and say the unit came back. If they went back to 5th ed but got rid of the nearby models rule I'd be over the moon, especially if we got a stratagem for how the monoliths eternity gate used to work.

I suppose there is another way, you could give all necrons multiple wounds and living metal, and the option to not heal a wound and instead bring a model back with one wound. You'd need to Increase points per model, thus Reduce the model count so you'd need to increase the power of necron weapons to make up for the lower model count, something insane like gauss causes mortal wounds on sixes to hit. Low model count, super tough, and wielding crazy guns would certainly capture the feel of the third ed necrons pretty well.

However it won't happen

My gut feeling is Necrons will be back on top when their new codex releases.

I'm starting to think that GW will keep RP as it is BUT reintroduce the Res Orb as a 6+ after suffering an unsaved wound within 3" or something. That way they can make the Eternity Orb relic a 5+ version of this. As it stands now, all the Necrons really need (aside from some major points reductions) is a stratagem that allows for a destroyed unit to roll RP. With the change to the Res Orb I just mentioned they can make that kind of strategem and there wouldn't need to be any weird rules about how to keep a Res Orb in range of a destroyed unit. Just some thoughts.

 Grimgold wrote:
There are only so many things you can make RP into, and it's more or less been all of them. You can either bring units back from the dead, but limit it in some way, or just ignore damage and say the unit came back. If they went back to 5th ed but got rid of the nearby models rule I'd be over the moon, especially if we got a stratagem for how the monoliths eternity gate used to work.

I suppose there is another way, you could give all necrons multiple wounds and living metal, and the option to not heal a wound and instead bring a model back with one wound. You'd need to Increase points per model, thus Reduce the model count so you'd need to increase the power of necron weapons to make up for the lower model count, something insane like gauss causes mortal wounds on sixes to hit. Low model count, super tough, and wielding crazy guns would certainly capture the feel of the third ed necrons pretty well.

However it won't happen

240 pts of warriors in rapid fire range (can be done easily enough now) drops a little under 7 mortal wounds which is a touch much maybe. If it was 6+ to wound it'd be a little over 3 which feels better and not over powered, with existing points anyway.

Sorry it wasn't really meant as a serious suggestion, if they tried to return necrons to early 3rd ed levels of elite they would have a model count more similar to grey knights (30 - 40 models) than the 70+ models we fielded in an average decurion decurion in 7th ed.

Look at Index Eldar VS Codex Eldar.
Look at Index Tyranids VS Codex Tyranids.

Those two alone coupled with GW touting "the biggest changes from Index to Codex" for Necrons means your Space Tomb Kings should be a-ok. Besides, you don't have long to wait before you find out for yourself!

Short answer.

Your codex isn't out yet, so no the sky isn't falling

Caederes wrote:
Look at Index Eldar VS Codex Eldar.
Look at Index Tyranids VS Codex Tyranids.

Those two alone coupled with GW touting "the biggest changes from Index to Codex" for Necrons means your Space Tomb Kings should be a-ok. Besides, you don't have long to wait before you find out for yourself!

To be fair, you could also look at Index AdMech vs Codex AdMech. I generally prefer to be optimistic until given a reason not to, though.