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Heavy Bolters. Specifically for Space Marines.

There seem to be more Heavy Bolters on tac marine and dev squad sprues than ever. And yet in every edition that's been played the Heavy Bolter has been overlooked in favour of multi-melta, plasma cannon, missile launcher, and of course now the Grav Cannon.

So are Heavy Bolters ever worth taking? Or if you have them on your models (cause they look great IMO) should they always be "Counts As" weaponry.

I dont think they are necessarily bad.

it wounds all normal troops on a 3+

it reduces their armor by 1.

I think it comes down to the price and number of shots and that it is mostly an anti infantry weapon where everyone mook has an anti infantry weapon for free already.

it might be nice to throw on a tac squad so they can reach out and touch some one. but on a full dev squad... i guess it may depend on what you fight the most and if you even need more anti tank.

Heavy bolters are definitely good, especially in scout squads. In devastator squads las- or plasma-cannons are best, meltas and missiles worst. Tacticals are useless no matter how they are equipped. Heavy bolters are also nice on Chimeras, sentinels, baneblades etc. Much cheaper than a heavy flamer.

Any weapon can be decent for the right price if they fill a role your army needs filling. Heavy bolters of various types (single, dual, quad) are actually fairly common because they scythe right through hordes efficiently and every army needs something along those lines. For Space Marines, it's a slightly more complex issue because they have Hurricane Bolters which, even post Chapter Approved, are still very good from what I can tell. Still, some power units will want to sport Heavy Bolters, namely the Fire Raptor. Devastators will want anti-tank weapons because Space Marines' best ranged anti-tank tends to be in the Heavy Support and Flyer slots, and you can get anti-infantry volume of fire elsewhere.

Side-note, Tyranid Warriors love their Heavy Bolters

They are certainly more useful than they have been in prior editions.
The problem is that most units that can take them, can take better or more needed options (albeit for more points)

They are good with gman re-roll wound bubble. They also are nice to throw mortal wounds around with the strat.

36" is a good range. s5 gets most jobs done and -1 is better than nothing and 10 points for 3 shots isn't the worst deal in the dex. 2 hits, 1 wound, 50/50 save vs MEQ for 23 points isn't a good deal but isn't terrible either (most other options need to be in RF range to compete, storm bolters, plasma guns). If they were assault rather than heavy they'd be good. Better for sisters than marines.

They work well on predators with killshot or in a gman bubble.

For sorry ass marines they are a pretty good weapon but that isn't saying much. Middle of the road weapon for a low-mid tier army.

 Corennus wrote:
Heavy Bolters. Specifically for Space Marines.

There seem to be more Heavy Bolters on tac marine and dev squad sprues than ever. And yet in every edition that's been played the Heavy Bolter has been overlooked in favour of multi-melta, plasma cannon, missile launcher, and of course now the Grav Cannon.

So are Heavy Bolters ever worth taking? Or if you have them on your models (cause they look great IMO) should they always be "Counts As" weaponry.

The heavy bolter is not an astounding weapon, but it is a functional and viable one.

The heavy bolter is probably the most functional it has been since 2E. The changes to S vs T didnt hurt it as much as other weapons like Scatterlasers and Autocannons, and also made it more effective against T7+ units. The AP-1 is also big. This makes it not quite as good against 5+ and 4+ sv infantry, but dramatically more effective against heavy infantry and even vehicles when enough HB's are masses together. Broadly, it is a much more flexible weapon.

It's not always the right choice, but the Heavy Bolter has more of a role and place now than it has for many editions.

As above, the HB is a very flexible weapon for the cost, from the AM perspective. I would call it the Missile Launcher of the last few editions. Decent at everything, excellent at nothing. A good option as an add-on, but not necessarily the best "primary" weapon for any given role.

I'd certainly consider putting them in Infantry Squads if I had models for them, where I like versatility. I'd put them on Russes and the like, if I didn't have other weapons modeled on.

Heavy Bolters lack the volume of dice to be impactful. If you could take them on extremely low cost models and in great quantity, they'd be amazing.

The best source of heavy bolter equivalent right now are Inceptors. They pump out 6 dice each, for a total of 18 for the minimum squad.

I think it's a good weapon. if you could take them on 9ppm models they'd be fantastic. 10 heavy bolters for 190 points is not bad. It'd be 30 strength 5 ap-1 dice, hitting on 3s with access to rerolls, at 36".

So yeah. Good weapon, generally bad platforms.

Sister of Battle- retributors with 4 heavy bolters - 85 points and has the potential to shoot 1+ times each turn (with nearby Imagifier or other act of faith support)

There are some very good uses of heavy bolters. The best is sister of battle retributor squads, who can use acts of faith to remove screens by firing at the beginning of the movement phase, before you start bringing down deep strikers. A spearhead comprising 3 of these units, Celestine and an Imagifer would improve just about any imperial army, but most especially any army that planned to deep strike things.

An imperial/crimson fist devastator squad with 4 heavy bolters is pretty cool, and not at all expensive. It's actually very good for killing other people's devastators, scouts etc, who are really punished by -1ap and ignoring cover. Guys who expect to have a 2+ save are pretty upset to find it going to 4 or 5+, against such a high-volume weapon.

They are kind of perfectly ok as a gun on a tactical squad, but there are certainly better options. The sit-on-an-objective, low-priority-target devastator squad is how I'd use them for marines.

Devastators do compete with Inceptors, who get a little bit more shooting and can zoom around the place. There are good reasons for both though.

They're fairly good.

Just, not usually on space marines. Though adding one or two if you can (like on, say, scouts) nets you access to hellfire rounds, which is nice.

The problem with heavy bolters (at least in a Marine army) is competition. You normally only have a certain number of heavy weapon slots so it normally makes sense to take some anti-tank weapons (or at least high AP ones) since your basic infantry have the anti-horde duty covered.

As noted, units that can spam HBs (or similar like Inceptors) can be very effective but these units are fairly few and far between.

In 8th, I've run always atleast one HB for hellfire shell stratagem and almost in every game I've used it against a screen threat. So yes, it's a nice maneuver to have, some times a mortal wound here and there is worth the CP and gets you more edge on the game.

I used to run it with my bolter scouts, but in my current list I have a tac squad with HB, it doesn't look frightning for enemy fire and the unit usually sits on an objective in cover and tease the "bigger" threat when it appears on my backyard.

 japehlio wrote:
Sister of Battle- retributors with 4 heavy bolters - 85 points and has the potential to shoot 1+ times each turn (with nearby Imagifier or other act of faith support)

In my most recent game of my Orks vs my wife's sisters, I concur. The cannonness' reroll 1's, plus a nearly guaranteed Act of faith (2+ each turn), and those Retributors were shooting twice a turn, rerolling 1's to hit.

Freaking ow!

Heavy bolters are great for Sisters and Guard. Not so hot for marines, imo.

Sisters of Battle are what Space Marines wish they could be. (In rules at least)

I really find Heavy Bolters in a Marine army useful as if there are maybe 1 or 2 of them scattered throughout a few squads that are probably going to be fairly immobile, just to be able to punch a few Mortal Wounds through on something to finish it off.

Guard have access to far better weapons (Mortars or Lascannons) for their infantry, but they are decent on a Tallarn Russ because they are fairly cheap and don't care about moving.

Sisters, yeah, I can see them being decent with Acts of Faith.

So they aren't terrible, but for most armies they have better options.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I really find Heavy Bolters in a Marine army useful as if there are maybe 1 or 2 of them scattered throughout a few squads that are probably going to be fairly immobile, just to be able to punch a few Mortal Wounds through on something to finish it off.

Well said. This is what I tried to say.

Xirax wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I really find Heavy Bolters in a Marine army useful as if there are maybe 1 or 2 of them scattered throughout a few squads that are probably going to be fairly immobile, just to be able to punch a few Mortal Wounds through on something to finish it off.

Well said. This is what I tried to say.

It's why I always include a couple of Heavy Bolters and Missile Launchers in my DA lists. Having the option to put out D3 mortal wounds when needed for a single CP is not something to underestimate.

Only platform I approve of is the Tarantula. 30ish points for 6 shots at BS4+ isn't half bad for the durability.

 Marmatag wrote:
Heavy Bolters lack the volume of dice to be impactful. If you could take them on extremely low cost models and in great quantity, they'd be amazing.

The best source of heavy bolter equivalent right now are Inceptors. They pump out 6 dice each, for a total of 18 for the minimum squad.

I think it's a good weapon. if you could take them on 9ppm models they'd be fantastic. 10 heavy bolters for 190 points is not bad. It'd be 30 strength 5 ap-1 dice, hitting on 3s with access to rerolls, at 36".

So yeah. Good weapon, generally bad platforms.

I’d rather run Inceptors with plasma exterminators... 2d3 shots per model and can Super Charge. Smurfs can burn 1 cp to reroll 1s to hit.

 Primark G wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Heavy Bolters lack the volume of dice to be impactful. If you could take them on extremely low cost models and in great quantity, they'd be amazing.

The best source of heavy bolter equivalent right now are Inceptors. They pump out 6 dice each, for a total of 18 for the minimum squad.

I think it's a good weapon. if you could take them on 9ppm models they'd be fantastic. 10 heavy bolters for 190 points is not bad. It'd be 30 strength 5 ap-1 dice, hitting on 3s with access to rerolls, at 36".

So yeah. Good weapon, generally bad platforms.

I’d rather run Inceptors with plasma exterminators... 2d3 shots per model and can Super Charge. Smurfs can burn 1 cp to reroll 1s to hit.

Sure, but it's a totally different unit really and the cost is miles apart for the two options. Bolter inceptors are still a decent unit, able to bring dakka where it's needed.

I don't like it. Not because of its cost or profile, the heavy bolter is a decent weapon but if you can have twin assault cannons or bikers with stormbolters which are both more efficient in doing the same role, those heavy bolters are not an appealing option to consider.

If the heavy bolter is the cheapest mandatory loadout for a specific unit, why no? I always equip my stormwolf with heavy bolters, not because they're that good, but because otherwise that flying thing would be insanely priced.

One of the top players in my area believes the humbe Heavy Bolter is among the best weapons in the game when used massively. S5 being a good average to wound everything (3+ versus most infantry and elites, 5+ against everything more resilient above T5), and the -1AP, while modest, doesn't overkill it when shooting at something that has a 4++.

A hb will never be wounding on worse then a 5.

i dont think anything in this game has a T10 yet.. maybe?

it has a lot going for it for sure.

its probably one of the best middle of the road heavy weapon.

At 10pts it's one of the most efficient anti-Space Marine weapons.

 Desubot wrote:
A hb will never be wounding on worse then a 5.

i dont think anything in this game has a T10 yet.. maybe?

it has a lot going for it for sure.

its probably one of the best middle of the road heavy weapon.

Only Forgeworld Titans and equivalent have T10 or more, so no, in a 2k game nothing has more than T9, and T9 itself is exceedingly rare as well, only seen on Forgeworld LoW units like the Fellblade. The highest toughness you'll encounter normally is T8 (Land Raiders, Plagueburst Crawlers, Knights etc.).

Anyway, I mostly agree with the "good weapon, bad platforms" assessment. HBs CAN be awesome, thing is it's an anti-infantry option for units that you will almost always want to equip with their anti-tank options. Some notable exceptions are the Fire Raptor (sheer volume of fire) and Stormwolf/Stormfang (can take 4 of them for good volume of fire and taking the quad multimelta makes it too expensive (not in terms of raw firepower but in terms of durability)).

Mandragola wrote:

 Primark G wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Heavy Bolters lack the volume of dice to be impactful. If you could take them on extremely low cost models and in great quantity, they'd be amazing.

The best source of heavy bolter equivalent right now are Inceptors. They pump out 6 dice each, for a total of 18 for the minimum squad.

I think it's a good weapon. if you could take them on 9ppm models they'd be fantastic. 10 heavy bolters for 190 points is not bad. It'd be 30 strength 5 ap-1 dice, hitting on 3s with access to rerolls, at 36".

So yeah. Good weapon, generally bad platforms.

I’d rather run Inceptors with plasma exterminators... 2d3 shots per model and can Super Charge. Smurfs can burn 1 cp to reroll 1s to hit.

Sure, but it's a totally different unit really and the cost is miles apart for the two options. Bolter inceptors are still a decent unit, able to bring dakka where it's needed.

Plasma Inceptors make everything go away - they worth every extra point.

 NurglesR0T wrote:

Xirax wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I really find Heavy Bolters in a Marine army useful as if there are maybe 1 or 2 of them scattered throughout a few squads that are probably going to be fairly immobile, just to be able to punch a few Mortal Wounds through on something to finish it off.

Well said. This is what I tried to say.

It's why I always include a couple of Heavy Bolters and Missile Launchers in my DA lists. Having the option to put out D3 mortal wounds when needed for a single CP is not something to underestimate.

I agree, it isn't to be underestimated at all. Seen a lot of bat reps where those D3 Mortal Wounds are enough to finish something off, saving your heavier shooting for other targets or characters.

I personally don't run any, but I am seriously considering it if anything in my Blood Angels army somehow gets cheaper in the March FAQ/errata. The only issue I see with that Strategem for Blood Angels is that our army already demands such a huge amount of CP for our assault units to be effective. I often don't find myself with any CP to spare by the end of Turn 2.

However, I still respect the humble Heavy Bolter, and they are great as the 4th weapon in Devastator squads (if you take 2 or 3 squads) since losing that model normally won't be a big deal. And, you are likely to only ever need the Hellfire Shells just once so all that matters is that one of your Heavy Bolter Devs stays alive for just some of the game.