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After many, MANY years of waiting, my House Vyronii decals are out and I pre-ordered them. Very excited to kick off my Knight project and here is a list I am working with:

HQ:
Knight Seneschal
Cerastus Knight-Lancer
[450]

Elites:
Preceptor
Cerastus-Knight Acheron
[440]

Troops:
Scion Martial
Questoris Knight Errant
Twin Icarus Autocannon
[405]

Scion Martial
Acastus Knight Porphyrion
2x Lascannons, Helios Defense Missiles
[515]

Heavy:
Scion Arbalester
Questoris Knight Styrix
Occular Augmetics
[440]

Lord of War:
Warhound Titan
2x DB Turbo Laser Destructor
[750]

[3000]

Simple enough list. My God-Eaters escorting a Legio Astorum Warhound against the traitors. Thoughts on the list?

I'm building a 3K Knight/Warhound army as well.

I'll never us it, because it would be the biggest dick list on the block, but I've always wanted on.

 djones520 wrote:
I'm building a 3K Knight/Warhound army as well.

I'll never us it, because it would be the biggest dick list on the block, but I've always wanted on.

In 30k, is it that much of a dick list? I mean with Meltabomb squads, Haywire everywhere, and loads of anti-tank, plus the whole Hull Point thing - is it that bad? I mean, I don't think so. Especially when a single Pod Leviathan can just trainwreck a Knight pretty much without recourse.

Haywire rather lackluster against warhound that is also armed with best guns(which also are for some weird reason same price as others and unfluffy as hell. Warhound isn#t supposed to pose titan busting weapons and those sure shouldn't be superior to volcano cannon). Many lists will be simply don't bother deploying. None of my lists would stand much chance even vs tamer weapons. Maybe if i tooled up and it had tamer weapons but this eats all alive

tneva82 wrote:
Haywire rather lackluster against warhound that is also armed with best guns(which also are for some weird reason same price as others and unfluffy as hell. Warhound isn#t supposed to pose titan busting weapons and those sure shouldn't be superior to volcano cannon). Many lists will be simply don't bother deploying. None of my lists would stand much chance even vs tamer weapons. Maybe if i tooled up and it had tamer weapons but this eats all alive

Haywire is for the Knights. The Warhound will likely eat a load of anti-Super firepower. A Venator or Falchion will give it problems. I think a Pod Leviathan will also be a problem, since the CML is pretty brutal. I think the list will give all-comers a challenge, which is really the purpose. I wanted it to be competitive, but also fluffy. I think I managed both! Knowing my area, I expect to run up against nasty armies, so I need any edge I can get.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Haywire rather lackluster against warhound that is also armed with best guns(which also are for some weird reason same price as others and unfluffy as hell. Warhound isn#t supposed to pose titan busting weapons and those sure shouldn't be superior to volcano cannon). Many lists will be simply don't bother deploying. None of my lists would stand much chance even vs tamer weapons. Maybe if i tooled up and it had tamer weapons but this eats all alive

Haywire is for the Knights. The Warhound will likely eat a load of anti-Super firepower. A Venator or Falchion will give it problems. I think a Pod Leviathan will also be a problem, since the CML is pretty brutal. I think the list will give all-comers a challenge, which is really the purpose. I wanted it to be competitive, but also fluffy. I think I managed both! Knowing my area, I expect to run up against nasty armies, so I need any edge I can get.

It's very easy to build a list to counter these things, for sure.

The problem is, who builds a list for the sole purpose of blowing up titans?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Haywire rather lackluster against warhound that is also armed with best guns(which also are for some weird reason same price as others and unfluffy as hell. Warhound isn#t supposed to pose titan busting weapons and those sure shouldn't be superior to volcano cannon). Many lists will be simply don't bother deploying. None of my lists would stand much chance even vs tamer weapons. Maybe if i tooled up and it had tamer weapons but this eats all alive

Haywire is for the Knights. The Warhound will likely eat a load of anti-Super firepower. A Venator or Falchion will give it problems. I think a Pod Leviathan will also be a problem, since the CML is pretty brutal. I think the list will give all-comers a challenge, which is really the purpose. I wanted it to be competitive, but also fluffy. I think I managed both! Knowing my area, I expect to run up against nasty armies, so I need any edge I can get.

And venators and falchions are everyday things there? I have yet to see one. And of course are they fielded all the time without even hint of titan on opposing side? Tooling up against specific list is rather easy. Whatabout without?

 djones520 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Haywire rather lackluster against warhound that is also armed with best guns(which also are for some weird reason same price as others and unfluffy as hell. Warhound isn#t supposed to pose titan busting weapons and those sure shouldn't be superior to volcano cannon). Many lists will be simply don't bother deploying. None of my lists would stand much chance even vs tamer weapons. Maybe if i tooled up and it had tamer weapons but this eats all alive

Haywire is for the Knights. The Warhound will likely eat a load of anti-Super firepower. A Venator or Falchion will give it problems. I think a Pod Leviathan will also be a problem, since the CML is pretty brutal. I think the list will give all-comers a challenge, which is really the purpose. I wanted it to be competitive, but also fluffy. I think I managed both! Knowing my area, I expect to run up against nasty armies, so I need any edge I can get.

It's very easy to build a list to counter these things, for sure.

The problem is, who builds a list for the sole purpose of blowing up titans?

A list should be balanced well to handle anything from a Titan to a militia squad, no list-tailoring needed. A lot of lists I see around feature all the stuff I talked about, because it is a solid counter to a lot of stuff.

tneva82 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Haywire rather lackluster against warhound that is also armed with best guns(which also are for some weird reason same price as others and unfluffy as hell. Warhound isn#t supposed to pose titan busting weapons and those sure shouldn't be superior to volcano cannon). Many lists will be simply don't bother deploying. None of my lists would stand much chance even vs tamer weapons. Maybe if i tooled up and it had tamer weapons but this eats all alive

Haywire is for the Knights. The Warhound will likely eat a load of anti-Super firepower. A Venator or Falchion will give it problems. I think a Pod Leviathan will also be a problem, since the CML is pretty brutal. I think the list will give all-comers a challenge, which is really the purpose. I wanted it to be competitive, but also fluffy. I think I managed both! Knowing my area, I expect to run up against nasty armies, so I need any edge I can get.

And venators and falchions are everyday things there? I have yet to see one. And of course are they fielded all the time without even hint of titan on opposing side? Tooling up against specific list is rather easy. Whatabout without?

Are they not in your area? I wouldn't bring a stock Marine list without one of those two or something similar. Or for like a Pod list the aforementioned CML Leviathan. And I am forgetting the Kraken Lightning, which is ubiquitous and pretty much able to gut most super-heavies. Oh! And Quad Launchers with Shatter shells are absolute murder on Knights, so there is that too. And those aren't uncommon at all.

None of that is tooling a list, either. Most of my Night Lord non-drop lists have those models somewhere in them, because all-comers lists need to be able to do so. That being said, part of the goal of this Knight/Titan list was to absolutely mitigate a percentage of my opponent's army by denying him quality targets for S5 and lower shooting and anything geared towards anti-infantry.

A lot of area's don't play that way at all. Friend of mine is in an area that has a strong 30K community, but many refuse to play with Lords of War (yes, even Primarchs).

This would be an extremely difficult list for most people to run up against, and in my experience, will get you the TFG label.

 djones520 wrote:
A lot of area's don't play that way at all. Friend of mine is in an area that has a strong 30K community, but many refuse to play with Lords of War (yes, even Primarchs).

This would be an extremely difficult list for most people to run up against, and in my experience, will get you the TFG label.

They don't play with Primarchs? Why even play 30k then? Sounds like a boring area.

Given my area, TFG status doesn't come often. You have to be actively breaking the game to get that label. If you just play with the best options, you are simply playing the game. Weird that people gravitate towards handicapping themselves - especially when this list is pretty fluffy (not perfect, but about as good as I can manage at 3k without sacrificing efficiency).

As for why handicap yourself...Maybe because not doing so results in just game breaking eliminating entire armies from being at all playable? Funny that people generally want to field models they like rather than be forced to have same optimal lists to stand any chance of being wiped out without any chance of doing anything but take off models.

It's called having fun rather than just trying to make most broken combination that's possible.

tneva82 wrote:
As for why handicap yourself...Maybe because not doing so results in just game breaking eliminating entire armies from being at all playable? Funny that people generally want to field models they like rather than be forced to have same optimal lists to stand any chance of being wiped out without any chance of doing anything but take off models.

I did handicap myself, because my whole army runs on HP. I can't imagine this is "game-breaking" when it is at 3k, where most armies will have enough units to handle all threats (and is why 3k became a standard for 30k).

It's called having fun rather than just trying to make most broken combination that's possible.

This isn't the most broken combo. It is built on my total love and devotion to House Vyronii and my want to put my beloved, and thoroughly-OOP, Lucius Warhound on the table. Hell, the list runs all of my favorite models and I shoehorned them in to make a viable 3k list. I didn't think to myself "How can I break the game?!" or "How can I win at all costs!?" More like "How can I put everything I love on the table?"

This list will be fun for me as a project - building and painting, as well as playing. I just can't imagine an army without answers to this. 30k is just bogged down with so much firepower, some armies may struggle a bit because of the aforementioned small-arms mitigation, but they will still be able to strip HP with anything S7+ from the front and S6+ from sides. That is a lot of options for armies still.

Eh, everyone has different ideas about how they want to play. If no one bats an eye in your group at 5x titans and a warhound, then you're doing just fine.

No need to judge other about how competitive or non-competitive their game is.

Hey man, your local meta is cool with it, then by all means play it. That's the most important part of it all. You having something you can enjoy, in an environment you feel welcome in.

Just be aware that it won't be something that is universally accepted. If you try to show up at the Adepticon fun event with this... you're not likely to make many friends.

 djones520 wrote:
If you try to show up at the Adepticon fun event with this... you're not likely to make many friends.

Yeah, the AdeptiCon HH group is (generally) way more laid back. 5x Titans and a warhound will get you some funny looks at best.

 kronk wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
If you try to show up at the Adepticon fun event with this... you're not likely to make many friends.

Yeah, the AdeptiCon HH group is (generally) way more laid back. 5x Titans and a warhound will get you some funny looks at best.

I'd like to check it out sometime. Maybe next year.

 kronk wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
If you try to show up at the Adepticon fun event with this... you're not likely to make many friends.

Yeah, the AdeptiCon HH group is (generally) way more laid back. 5x Titans and a warhound will get you some funny looks at best.

I doubt I will get out there anytime soon, but I'd love to. I would hope the love I plan on putting into the army will help take some heat off it. And I do plan on playing mostly narrative games, so they can be a bit more tailored to scenarios that suit both players, ideally. But when it comes time to go to tourneys, I'll be set too... ideally.

Any feedback on the list? Anything that looks like a majorly weak link? Anything I don't have covered?