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I am powering through painting up all my Necromunda stuff and am enjoying it all quite a bit.

One thing that appealed to me though it the low model count of the game. Thing is, as more weapon packs are added etc I don't want to have to buy more boxes of gangers if I can help it... So wondering where I can see good all arounder lists so I can build my 10 with a decent spread of guns to make the games interesting without fussing too badly about wysiwig?

If I end up playing a lot, which is doubtful as hell given my track record on actually playing stuff, I will probably end up getting more models for addition weapons such as the FW weapon packs.

So, TLDR - where can I see effective lists?

It's really not a netlisting kind of game.

But IMHO this is the top stuff:
Autopistol, Autogun, Combat shotgun, Grenade Launcher, Spud Jacker, Power Hammer

And the useless trap options for noobs:
Rivet cannon, Heavy Stubber, anything with Gas or Toxin

Heavy Stubber? Useless?

No joke. Actually I found all move-or-shoot weapons bizzarely bad in this edition in actual gameplay, but the stubber definitely takes the cake with its piddly damage, gak accuracy and costing more than the two best weapons of the game combined (combat shotgun and grenade launcher). You can add, I dunno, maybe 5 more sustained fire dice to it and maybe I'll consider it.

Not having played it, but the auto weapons do seem particularly worthwhile. But probably worth backing up with a couple of Las weapons around for reliability. Just on paper the prestige weapons seem a bit unreliable for the damage and cost. The bolter/needler in particular seems like a lot of points for a gun you shoot twice then it goes dry. Probably more for experienced gangs rather than new ones.

If you want to break the game, just do all Grenade launchers on all gangers, champions and the leader.

That seems like an awful lot of work - acquiring or converting all those weapons to only play one game.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Heavy Stubber? Useless?

Utterly useless, unless it is corrected to Rapid Fire (2) in GW2, as I believe it has been. Even then, very probably overcosted.

Which is a shame, as heavy stubbers were great last edition. Very possibly GW trying to prevent people from sticking ith their old miniatures.

Interesting, and a shame! H.Stubbers are kinda iconic so sucks they are terrible... Also too bad about rivet cannons and toxic. Noted for autos and other recommends, thanks! I don't want tfa op netlisted stuff, just balanced and smart so random one off games can be fun. For Goliath and Escher, I pretty much built as instructed but for a Shotgun on an Escher. Orlocks will be more pick and choose. So of the box game builds, rivet cannons trash and toxin should just go ahead and house rule I guess...

So: How are you guys going to set up your orlocks?
How many models in your gangs thus far?

Thanks for the answers and info so far guys, appreciate your thoughts

 Fifty wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Heavy Stubber? Useless?

Utterly useless, unless it is corrected to Rapid Fire (2) in GW2, as I believe it has been. Even then, very probably overcosted.

It is listed at 130 points.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
...a shame! H.Stubbers are kinda iconic so sucks they are terrible...

You want to see it as a terrible weapon, that's you. I'm definately giving one to my crew once I get the models. Rapid Fire (2) at 20" isn't anything to sneeze at.

 Breotan wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:
...a shame! H.Stubbers are kinda iconic so sucks they are terrible...

You want to see it as a terrible weapon, that's you. I'm definately giving one to my crew once I get the models. Rapid Fire (2) at 20" isn't anything to sneeze at.

I don't want to see it as anything, just going by the consensus above and then what I have read elsewhere saying similar. Not as broken as Rivets and Toxin by all accounts but def not considered effective from what i read. I personally don't have the experience or familiarity to weigh in, other than to say they look cool and they are iconic Necromunda to me...

 Fifty wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Heavy Stubber? Useless?

Utterly useless, unless it is corrected to Rapid Fire (2) in GW2, as I believe it has been. Even then, very probably overcosted.

Which is a shame, as heavy stubbers were great last edition. Very possibly GW trying to prevent people from sticking ith their old miniatures.

Of course the heavy stubber is Rapid Fire (2). It always has been and always will (confirmed in GW2). The only exception was the Gangs of Legend pdf which was confusing and wrong on so many levels.

Heavy Stubber was a perfectly fine weapon in previous Necromunda, what has changed that makes it so bad now?

Sad about the thwarting of heavy stubber, it was an ichonic weapon of necromunda, as much minis were fitted with.

Baxx wrote:

 Fifty wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Heavy Stubber? Useless?

Utterly useless, unless it is corrected to Rapid Fire (2) in GW2, as I believe it has been. Even then, very probably overcosted.

Which is a shame, as heavy stubbers were great last edition. Very possibly GW trying to prevent people from sticking ith their old miniatures.

Of course the heavy stubber is Rapid Fire (2). It always has been and always will (confirmed in GW2). The only exception was the Gangs of Legend pdf which was confusing and wrong on so many levels.

Heavy Stubber was a perfectly fine weapon in previous Necromunda, what has changed that makes it so bad now?

The Unwieldy rule makes it very difficult to use, even to cover space and deny areas to the enemy effectively. You can't move and fire at all, and you can never aim with it. The long range partially makes up for it, but not completely. With Rapid Fire (2) it is at least enough of a threat that if you position it well, it can seal off whole areas of the board from even large groups moving together, but it is still overcosted. For less cost that a Heavy Stubber, you can get two Boltguns, which can be used by anyone instead of just champions, and have 20 creds left over for a backup weapon. In my opinion, you dpn't want your champions hanging back not getting shots off. Sure, to fire a 24" Bolter, you'll need to mvoe to get into position with it, but the point is that you i]can[/i]. On top of all of that, my group is playing a mix of 2D and 3D. On the Zone Mortalis boards, I've played games where Heavy Stubbers don't get a single shot off, and they are actually worse than a Boltgun. At 100 creds, I'd possibly want one or two in a shooty gang, but not at 130.

Having said all of that, I have lots of Heavy Stubber models, so will probably use them in some of my gangs. But that is also because I am the arbitrator, so not necessarily playing all-out for wins.

I asked what is different now. No move-and-fire heavy weapons is exactly like it used to. There's multiple ways to bypass that, skill and/or equipment. I think the biggest change now is that you get all or nothing with rapid fire. That could actually be worse against weaker targets which would go down easier if you rolled to hit separately. And the fact that the only ones who can take Heavy Stubbers now are Champions and Leaders which tend to have better WS than the rest, so often that is not put to good use carrying a long range heavy weapon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 marshalldeath wrote:
Sad about the thwarting of heavy stubber, it was an ichonic weapon of necromunda, as much minis were fitted with.

How do you mean it is 'thwarted'?

A few things that are different.

First, as you said, you're spending a Champion statline on it.

Second, essentially no overwatch (outside very very limited special rules). Enemies can double move from cover to cover all game and you can't split-second interrupt them with their pants down.

Third, easy availability of weapons that deliver almost as much punch far more reliably, ignore cover, can move and fire and cost less than half of what the stubber costs.

^ That logic makes sense to me. As he said, without effective overwatch the utility is very limited from what I understand. I would want that kind of weapon to be a mobile turret, one you forego shooting if you move it for the turn, but that once 'deployed' would give ample control of an area via overwatch and active shooting.

So, who has ordered orlocks? Any plans for the builds?

I'm picking up 2 boxen (as with all the gangs) but no real plans yet. Gonna blue-tac the arms for the first few games.

Got 2 sets of Orlocks on the way (just like I have 2 of the other gangs). Gonna build one and then wait for the FW conversion kits to come out.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
First, as you said, you're spending a Champion statline on it.

And you had to give it to a heavy prior, who had BS3 rather than (what would now be the equivalent of) BS4. That's an improvement. How does that make it worse?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Second, essentially no overwatch (outside very very limited special rules). Enemies can double move from cover to cover all game and you can't split-second interrupt them with their pants down.

That's better for the game IMO.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Third, easy availability of weapons that deliver almost as much punch far more reliably, ignore cover, can move and fire and cost less than half of what the stubber costs.

Bulging Biceps can alleviate that the move-and-fire thing.

Those are lame excuses for the stubber even in a vacuum and irrelevant if we acknowledge that better weapons exist for cheaper, no matter how much you bend over backwards to make the stubber functional. I guarantee that if you field it in practice you will regret not picking something else most of your turns.

There's also suspensors, overseer leaders, tactic cards and probably other stuff to get around the unwieldy rule. And like H.B.M.C. said, champions are heavies, you're not losing anything there. Apart from overwatch I don't see how current heavy stubbers are worse than in the previous edition. It looks like a great area denial tool with its 40" range.

You are wasting a good melee statline using the heavy weapon though.