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Hey Dakka. I started a thread a little over 8 months ago soon after 8th came out. (Original post from that thread in spoilers below).
8th is made up of a lot of modular rules coupled with the 3 ways to play. Just thought I would see what people in general like to play.
This time around I am adding a multiple choice poll because I think it might be interesting to see the results. It's just rough answers. I realize that if you play with any house rules it amounts to Open. But I figured this will give a leaning towards whether they play closer to matched or not.
Spoiler:
Lance845 wrote: So it turns out 8th is made up of what amounts to a bunch of modular rules. They are grouped together in each set of advanced rules and into a set for matched play. But I have seen a lot of people say there are parts of these rules they do not like (Psychic focus doesn't scale at all with the size of the game as an example). So I was curious what people have been actually playing so far or if you know what direction you and your group seem to be going in.
Here is what we are going to be using including a couple little house rules. Because it's not strictly matched it actually falls under Open.
Points vs Power
We use both. If its just quick list building or we want to experiment with a bunch of wargear options without the nit picking points we will go with power. But mostly we have been sticking with points.
Missions
We are making use of every mission. Narrative, matched, whatever. Play what looks fun.
Matched And Advanced Rules In Effect At All Times
-Army Faction and Battleforged Army Construction with Army Roster -Reinforcement Points -Strategic Discipline -Tactical Reserves (unless a specific mission would require otherwise) -HOUSE RULE: We do not use Psychic Focus, but we do specify that psychic powers do not stack with themselves (I.E. I could not cast The Horror (-1 to hit and ld) on the same unit multiple times for a cumulative effect. I can still cast The Horror multiple times each time targeting a different unit). -Battlefield Terrain -City Ruins -HOUSE RULE: We extend the behind terrain/50% obscured to other terrain that are at least 3" tall. We mostly don't have other types of terrain, but it has been agreed that if we had some woods (we assume the trees would be at least 3" above the table) than infantry would have cover if you have to shoot through the woods and other models would get it if 50% obscured. -Height Advantage -Fire In The Hole -Leaving Combat Airspace -HOUSE RULE: We use 7th ed targeting in that wings, tails, banners, antenna, and other decorative portrudeing elements cannot be used to draw LOS (You cannot aim from them and you cannot target them). Like 7th says, you shouldn't be penalized for putting your models in fun and epic positions. Neat decorative elements shouldn't impact the game play. So they don't.
This gets us the level of complexity we enjoy without any of the slight BS in some of 8ths rules so far.
We are also testing out alternating unit activations instead of IGOUGO. But that is a whole other thing that is unlikely to be widespread.
So how is everyone else playing so far?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Forgot another house rule!
HOUSE RULE: Rerolls: If a rule allows for a reroll on a specific value "Reroll rolls of 1 to hit" you reroll before modifiers or in other words on a natural roll of 1. If a rule allows for a reroll on a broad trigger "Reroll misses to hit" you reroll after modifiers are applied.
When I can't I play 8th Open, but very close to Matched with a few House Rules.
Points vs Power
We use both. If its just quick list building or we want to experiment with a bunch of wargear options without the nit picking points we will go with power. But mostly we have been sticking with points.
Missions
We are making use of every mission. Narrative, matched, whatever. Play what looks fun.
Matched And Advanced Rules In Effect At All Times
-Army Faction and Battleforged Army Construction with Army Roster -Reinforcement Points -Strategic Discipline -Tactical Reserves (unless a specific mission would require otherwise) -HOUSE RULE: We do not use Psychic Focus, but we do specify that psychic powers do not stack with themselves (I.E. I could not cast The Horror (-1 to hit and ld) on the same unit multiple times for a cumulative effect. I can still cast The Horror multiple times each time targeting a different unit) and each time you try to cast the same power in the same phase it's a cumulative -1 to your attempt. Basically Beta Smite rules for all powers. -We are now using new home brew terrain rules that add a lot more tactical depth. -Height Advantage -Fire In The Hole -Leaving Combat Airspace -HOUSE RULE: We use 7th ed targeting in that wings, tails, banners, antenna, and other decorative portrudeing elements cannot be used to draw LOS (You cannot aim from them and you cannot target them). Like 7th says, you shouldn't be penalized for putting your models in fun and epic positions. Neat decorative elements shouldn't impact the game play. So they don't.
What about you guys?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/14 20:33:50
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2018/02/14 20:35:22
Subject: Re:The 8th That You Play - 8 months latter.
Only thing we really do outside of the rulebook is that we say windows in ruins and buildings are opaque. IE, you can't see through them unless the model shooting or being shot at is on that piece of terrain. Gives us more LOS blocking terrain which helps.
2018/02/14 20:45:12
Subject: Re:The 8th That You Play - 8 months latter.
Disclosure: I ticked both matched - no house rules and matched - house rules, because it depends on who I'm playing against.
With one of the guys in my group, we use more lax rules on what gets cover and what doesn't. I'm also proud to admit that no one has really souped much of anything* too abusive. Otherwise, I think we stick pretty close to RAW.
* I add Scions and Inquisition to my GK to get a 3rd ed style Demonhunters list. We also have a Eldar / Dark Eldar player.
Should have a "Matched - ITC" option. Because that's the only way i play at this point.
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
Marmatag wrote: Should have a "Matched - ITC" option. Because that's the only way i play at this point.
I would say thats matched house rules.
The House in this case being ITC. Just because they are generally accepted house rules doesn't mean they are not house rules established by the TOs.
I guess, but it just feels inaccurate because the game rules are unchanged. It's just the missions and game time limits that are changed. Compare to the IG guy who posted his house rules that let him shoot at full BS in close quarters combat with no penalty, and without falling back.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/14 21:04:43
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
Sadly just matched. Very boring people here. Sometimes ITC rules sometimes not, but that whole "three ways to play" is a load of bollocks as far as I'm concerned. There is only one way to play, and it's not a good thing.
Marmatag wrote: Should have a "Matched - ITC" option. Because that's the only way i play at this point.
I would say thats matched house rules.
The House in this case being ITC. Just because they are generally accepted house rules doesn't mean they are not house rules established by the TOs.
I guess, but it just feels inaccurate because the game rules are unchanged. It's just the missions and game time limits that are changed.
I haven't really looked closely at ITC, but I kinda agree stuff like it and INAT (is INAT even still around?) deserves a layer of legitimacy above and beyond Random Guy's Basement's rules, just based upon the prevalence of usage.
Compare to the IG guy who posted his house rules that let him shoot at full BS in close quarters combat with no penalty, and without falling back.
Bwahahaha, is this real? That sounds like an epic troll.
Tried 8th and found myself not enjoying the game at all with the issues being the core rules themselves. No amount of house rules can really fix what imo is a broken foundation. I have gone back to playing 7th and find it far more fun to play with all of my armies (despite 7th's terrible game balance).
"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise"
I find the overwhelmingly vast majority of players I know of are playing matched play, even if they would never go to a tournament, its just the easiest for pickup play.
That said, while nowhere near as bad as 7E, house rules are common. Alternate missions or modified rulebook missions are common, houserules for army construction (allies, detachments, LoW's, etc) are also common, etc. But a lot less house rules than 7E.
EDIT: I would definitely consider sometbing like ITC to be house rules. They may be widely accepted, but they are not to be found in the rulebook, radically change certain things (particularly missions), and are not from GW, hence they are houserules.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/14 21:59:36
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
I find 8th ed to be inexcusably shallow meatgrinder., so after brief period of interest on "how does 8th work out of the box" I now play exclusively "custom ed" based on 7th core rules, but with so much changes to both ruleset and codices accumulated that it's different experience entirely.
I use basically matched with a couple house rules, but I have been working on my own ruleset for a year (off and on).
HOUSE RULES
- No named characters
- Faction pure
- Shooting through terrain gives cover, not just actually being in it.
- Lords of War only by mutual agreement (knights and superheavies essentially)
We”re using Index rules (primarily), points from Battlescribe and the strategm cards released alongside the Codexes, so its a bit of a Frankenstein. Also, our games are only about 1000 points, so we havenlt been seeing some of the issues where units get spammed in larger games.
Its not really about legitimacy. Open is entirely legitamate just like matched. Your either playing the game acording to rules layed out by gw or your not.
No matter how you look at it itc is house rules. Missions made up by not gw with extra rules made up by not gw.
Open play cards in open play with power levels would be more "legitamate" than ITC.
But again, not really about that. Just... How do you enjoy playing.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
I marked Matched - House Rules based on the ITC discussion. My play group is tournament and tournament travel focused so most of what we're doing is playing ITC missions and terrain rules. We occasionally dabble in some more narrative play elements but the bulk of mine (and my groups) hobbying is centered around Matched play.
Not sure which one this would fit, so I put "Narrative: House Rules"
We play custom narrative scenarios, using points (normally), and often using twists and random deployment via the Open War deck. We have numerous house rules regarding terrain (more interactive), and we leave vehicles on the tabletop for cover most of the time. One group I play with will soon be beginning to do an alternative form of unit-activation gameplay (and I suspect that's all I'll play in the future).
We do follow most Matched Play rules (limited spells, new Beta Smite, reinforcement points, etc.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/14 23:16:36
We pretty much use the rules as-is, though if we use the objective cards we allow people to mulligan any/all of their starting cards if they wish. Most other games that use cards allow it and it seems odd to me that 40K doesn't. JMO though...
And btw I'm betting 100% of "matched play, no house rules" ARE actually using house rules. Albeit subtle ones but I'm stunned if anybody of them actually plays literally RAW. Or somebody really doesn't for example shoot assault weapons after advancing? Just one example of rather common house rule would be allowing that...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/15 07:04:34
We used to play Matched - no house rules (apart from the obvious needed fixes like the aforementioned assault weapons) but than games became so boring that we decided to houserule a lot of stuff to add some tactics and lower the impact of who goes first.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/15 07:17:06
I'm willing to give a pass to the rules needed to make the basic game even work (like assault weapons and pistols). But I would still be shocked if most people didn't house rule discarding objectives that can't be completed or terrain rules or any number of other little things because while the base rules are fine they are also dull as dirt.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
We houserule wound allocation to reduce the number of cases where you need to resolve shots one at a time, and to some degree terrain rules (although I think there is considerable permission to write your own terrain rules in the rulebook anyway)...
yeah, and obvious stupidity that should have been FAQd by now regarding picking units to shoot...
koooaei wrote: We used to play Matched - no house rules (apart from the obvious needed fixes like the aforementioned assault weapons) but than games became so boring that we decided to houserule a lot of stuff to add some tactics and lower the impact of who goes first.
Can I ask what you houseruled?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
It is becoming very common where I play to houserule all terrain as "neutral statues" (i.e. use the Imperial Statuary terrain rule without the stupid Imperials Get +1 LD rule). Hilariously in the case of every terrain type in the game except for Craters, Statuary works far better for allocating cover. No more stupid gamey "on or within" crap, no more "I'll put all the objectives on the second floor so your bike army can't score anything" crap, just a simple, easy to determine terrain rule that doesn't require a lot of mental stretching to figure out how or why it works.
If a model is close enough to take cover behind something, and the cover is between it and the firer, it takes cover. Easy. satisfying. Makes games last the full 5-7 turns without ending in a tabling 99% of the time.
And the best part is it's not "technically" a homebrew rule, because it is actually in the book, so you can point to it and say "hey, want to use this?" instead of the always sketchy "I wrote this new rule..."
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
koooaei wrote: We used to play Matched - no house rules (apart from the obvious needed fixes like the aforementioned assault weapons) but than games became so boring that we decided to houserule a lot of stuff to add some tactics and lower the impact of who goes first.
Can I ask what you houseruled?
Currently we're working on alternative activation rules.
Could you share it? We'll probably steal a couple of things if you don't mind. Cause there's currently a certain problem of activation battery spam and deepstrikes or fast units. Cause we don't use initiative, there can be a situation where one unit could wait till the end of the turn to activate, move up and than activate as a first unit next turn. I'm thinking of adding some restiction on how fast you can activate units, like no activating before 2 of your other units have activated unless you have fewer or something like this. Also, mellee is a bit rough.
Space Marines (Rift Wardens) - 8050pts.
Vampire Covenants 2060pts. 
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ 
+ 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise" 
