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https://www.cbsnews.com/live/?ftag=CNMe94798

Current news has at least 20 injured. CBS has updated their banner to report at least 14 injured + numerous fatalities.

Local CBS affiliate stating that a suspect is in custody, being transferred to local jail. No reports of other shooters.

Multiple reports refer to the shooter as a former student as opposed to a current student.

What is there to say? It sucks and it's just frustrating to watch how mass shooting are a constant thing in the US (40 in 2018 alone). Apparently schools over there have emergency drills for that, like it's an earthquake or other unavoidable natural catastrophe. There's not much to discuss (no US politics), it's just something that happens in the USA.

More details trickling out but there is a lot of conflicting information floating around so it's hard to sort out what's fact and what's inaccurate.

The latest reports are saying 14 injured and 7 dead.

Devastating for those caught up in it, the number of these shootings already this year is staggering, this drawing attention for being the worst.

But sadly we know the way this will play out politically. More finger pointing, demands for gun control, a lot of puff in the media, accusations on both sides of using the incident for political means, and somewhere along the line conspiracy theories involving ‘professional crisis actors’ that make it all more insufferable for the victims. Ultimately nothing will change.

News just said 17 dead.

Mario wrote:
There's not much to discuss (no US politics), it's just something that happens in the USA.

This is sadly the truth. Most of us won't remember the school name after a week or two either, because another incident will occur and occupy our attention.

Feth like this NEVER happened when I was growing up.

I truly hope the shooter gets the OZ/Shawshank treatment before he gets the needle.

Thoughts and prayers, obviously.

 Breotan wrote:
Feth like this NEVER happened when I was growing up.

Yes it did. It was less common, and you were less aware of it because 24 hour news didn't report it in realtime, but there have been school shootings in this country since the 1800s. If you're 42, then there have been about 85 school shootings from when you were born until you turned 18.

 Breotan wrote:
Feth like this NEVER happened when I was growing up.

It never happened at the school at least when i was growing up. I was stabbed a few times, but never shot.

 Breotan wrote:
Feth like this NEVER happened when I was growing up.

90+ year old school massacre's is still the deadliest and was done with bombs, so yeah this stuff has been happening for a long time.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/1927-bombing-remains-americas-deadliest-school-massacre-180963355/

 stanman wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Feth like this NEVER happened when I was growing up.

90+ year old school massacre's is still it's deadliest and was done with bombs, so yeah this stuff has been happening for a long time.

"when I was growing up" does not include events 90+ years ago. I'm old but not that old.

Frazzled, on the other hand...

 Ouze wrote:
Yes it did. It was less common, and you were less aware of it because 24 hour news didn't report it in realtime, but there have been school shootings in this country since the 1800s. If you're 42, then there have been about 85 school shootings from when you were born until you turned 18.

The awareness of it is actually part of the problem, sort of. In the wake of Robin Williams suicide and the saturation media coverage that followed, the rate of suicide is estimated to have increased 10%. People suffering from violent compulsions are triggered by outside stimulus. For much the same reason, the modern spree of shootings started with Columbine, and the media and social focus that followed. This doesn't mean attacks shouldn't be reported, but newsrooms should be aware of the impact of some types of coverage, and show responsibility in what they report. Focusing on the shooter, not the victims, going in to specific act by act details of the attack - these things can help trigger the next attacker.

The other part is, of course, the guns. Both the guns and the media coverage operate as powerful triggers to get mentally unwell people to tip over in to acting on their violent fantasies.

I mean, it should be obvious. Take an unwell person, put him in a room with a tv broadcasting continuous coverage of past school massacres, and put a small armoury of guns in the corner of the room. Everyone knows on a basic, instinctive level that guy is a lot more likely to act on his violent fantasies, compared to a guy who has minimal contact with guns, in an environment with little violent media.

 sebster wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Yes it did. It was less common, and you were less aware of it because 24 hour news didn't report it in realtime, but there have been school shootings in this country since the 1800s. If you're 42, then there have been about 85 school shootings from when you were born until you turned 18.

The awareness of it is actually part of the problem, sort of. In the wake of Robin Williams suicide and the saturation media coverage that followed, the rate of suicide is estimated to have increased 10%. People suffering from violent compulsions are triggered by outside stimulus. For much the same reason, the modern spree of shootings started with Columbine, and the media and social focus that followed. This doesn't mean attacks shouldn't be reported, but newsrooms should be aware of the impact of some types of coverage, and show responsibility in what they report. Focusing on the shooter, not the victims, going in to specific act by act details of the attack - these things can help trigger the next attacker.

The other part is, of course, the guns. Both the guns and the media coverage operate as powerful triggers to get mentally unwell people to tip over in to acting on their violent fantasies.

I mean, it should be obvious. Take an unwell person, put him in a room with a tv broadcasting continuous coverage of past school massacres, and put a small armoury of guns in the corner of the room. Everyone knows on a basic, instinctive level that guy is a lot more likely to act on his violent fantasies, compared to a guy who has minimal contact with guns, in an environment with little violent media.

At this point I don't think TV has anything to do with school shootings. Most school shooters probably pay almost no attention to the 24 hour cable news cycle. They do have a plethora of unmatched forums on the internet that glorify these things as well as instigate them.

For children these days, the internet has far greater influence.

Self edited

So it sounds like another break down of the system then anything else. At least we haven't gotten into the bugaboo about guns yet...

But every kid interviewed has basically said they've been waiting for a whole year for this to happen, from the person who did it.

No one was surprised.

That seems like a pretty clear freaking problem there.

 djones520 wrote:
So it sounds like another break down of the system then anything else. At least we haven't gotten into the bugaboo about guns yet...

Well, you know it's coming.

 Ouze wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
So it sounds like another break down of the system then anything else. At least we haven't gotten into the bugaboo about guns yet...

Well, you know it's coming.

Spoiler:

Major shooting event happens

condolences to family

questions about shooting

details about shooting

condolences to family

thoughts and prayers

why do americans love guns so much

it's too soon to politicize it, you ghouls

if he's brown, speculate he's a radical muslim & ask if islam is compatible with the west

if he's white, call him a lone wolf and discuss mental health

off topic political stuff

first warning

thoughts and prayers

fake info

hey man, that was fake info

we need to ban guns like Australia

the US is not like Australia

they have way more guns in Finland and this doesn't happen

the US has a violent culture

semantic argument over definition of assault rifle

off topic political stuff

second warning

we need to ban guns

if you banned guns, then people would just use something else

lots of people get killed by bees and hammers

NRA donates money to republicans

off topic political stuff

rudeness

memes

thread locked

We really need to build some official Dakka bingo cards.

 Ouze wrote:
Thoughts and prayers, obviously.

 Breotan wrote:
Feth like this NEVER happened when I was growing up.

Yes it did. It was less common, and you were less aware of it because 24 hour news didn't report it in realtime, but there have been school shootings in this country since the 1800s. If you're 42, then there have been about 85 school shootings from when you were born until you turned 18.

There\s enough shooting incidents in america that there's been more casualties in past half a century inside US than US soldiers have died in al the wars(including civil war) in America's history combined. So yeah if you are like 50 years or less you have lived through cases like these. Before it was just less in news. How many kids in old days read news papers all that much? How many sees news these days from twitter/facebook/whatever without even deliberately searching for news?

This gak is terrible.

He pulled a fire alarm and waited until the halls filled up or something.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
At this point I don't think TV has anything to do with school shootings. Most school shooters probably pay almost no attention to the 24 hour cable news cycle. They do have a plethora of unmatched forums on the internet that glorify these things as well as instigate them.

For children these days, the internet has far greater influence.

Fair point. I think though, that a lot of internet stuff is secondary media, taking info and points of view started on tv. Not all of it, of course, but a big enough chunk that tv coverage drives impacts internet coverage.

But I'm not a teenager and haven't been one for a long time, so they could be getting their internet stuff from new, original sources that I don't even know about. Happy to admit ignorance there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:
Well, you know it's coming.

Spoiler:

Major shooting event happens

condolences to family

questions about shooting

details about shooting

condolences to family

thoughts and prayers

why do americans love guns so much

it's too soon to politicize it, you ghouls

if he's brown, speculate he's a radical muslim & ask if islam is compatible with the west

if he's white, call him a lone wolf and discuss mental health

off topic political stuff

first warning

thoughts and prayers

fake info

hey man, that was fake info

we need to ban guns like Australia

the US is not like Australia

they have way more guns in Finland and this doesn't happen

the US has a violent culture

semantic argument over definition of assault rifle

off topic political stuff

second warning

we need to ban guns

if you banned guns, then people would just use something else

lots of people get killed by bees and hammers

NRA donates money to republicans

off topic political stuff

rudeness

memes

thread locked

That was perfect. And not just a perfect summary of gun debates. It was the perfect post. The post all posts should aspire to being. Even that is maybe selling it short, because it was perfect beyond just being a post. It is perhaps the level of perfection that everything should aspire towards. Next time your favourite plays a great game of ballfootergame, you can say it was great, but how perfect was it compared to Ouze's Feb 15th 2018 post on the discussion that follows after some US mass shootings.

 sebster wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
For children these days, the internet has far greater influence.

Fair point. I think though, that a lot of internet stuff is secondary media, taking info and points of view started on tv. Not all of it, of course, but a big enough chunk that tv coverage drives impacts internet coverage.

But I'm not a teenager and haven't been one for a long time, so they could be getting their internet stuff from new, original sources that I don't even know about. Happy to admit ignorance there.

I think social media is a stronger influence than television. People put all sorts of things on Facebook and/or Youtube for their friends (and hopefully others) to see. Then there's all the selfie posing that winds up on Snapchat and Imgur.

On the other hand, the whole Tide pod stupidity was a combination of YouTube idiocy followed by News coverage.

I wonder how many of these recent shooters are wishing for their deeds to go viral and make them famous.

 Breotan wrote:
I wonder how many of these recent shooters are wishing for their deeds to go viral and make them famous.

Probably the same share as we saw in the wave of copycats that followed Columbine. Which is to say it probably wasn't the only reason in any case, but there probably wasn't any case where it wasn't one of the reasons.


LATE EDIT - missed out the word 'reason'.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.

These kids may not watch much mainstream media but of course they know their actions will be extensively covered by it. That has to be part of the motivation. People like this are usually extremely isolated; they either have no one to express themselves to or they don't know how. This is an extremely effective way to get some attention, as horrible as that is.

 Luciferian wrote:
These kids may not watch much mainstream media but of course they know their actions will be extensively covered by it.

Agreed. Ultimately whether the media is tv or the internet is irrelevant*, the underlying dynamic of wanting to get their anger recognized and their power acknowledged is there - whether that recognition is realised through a news report or a bunch of youtube channels or whatever else doesn't really matter.




*I mean its irrelevant to the issue of kids being driven by the need for greater recognition. In terms of the original point raised by BrotherGecko, that tv media's responsbility doesn't matter so much when the kids aren't watching tv, the point was fair.

 Ouze wrote:
Thoughts and prayers, obviously.

/thread

With the ridiculous US politics ban that's all you can say on the subject. Thoughts and prayers, how sad it is, might as well just lock the thread now since nothing of substance can be said without breaking forum rules.

Oh, another one. Yawn. Tune in tomorrow for shooting number 41.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Thoughts and prayers, obviously.

/thread

With the ridiculous US politics ban that's all you can say on the subject. Thoughts and prayers, how sad it is, might as well just lock the thread now since nothing of substance can be said without breaking forum rules.

apparently thoughts and prayers are accelerating the cycle, 18 shootings this year is beyond horrible, that's 3 a week. thoughts and prayers really just seems to be code for 'blood for the gun god'. the lives of the children are meaningless to the gun owners who think their right to a gun outways the uncountable lives lost to mass shootings. It's amazing isn't it, nothing gets done year after year to address the issue, and the violence keeps getting worse every year.

 Breotan wrote:

 stanman wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Feth like this NEVER happened when I was growing up.

90+ year old school massacre's is still it's deadliest and was done with bombs, so yeah this stuff has been happening for a long time.

"when I was growing up" does not include events 90+ years ago. I'm old but not that old.

Frazzled, on the other hand...

When I was growing up, hyenadon packs were the problem.
To the topic. I do not know what to do. Reports are he was cray cray on the internet and had been reported. But then what. Police can't imprison you for what you might do. Forced stays at medical facilities are extremely difficult and temporary.
Make the guns illegal and they are still out there, plus it harms everyone else.

We live on school row ( elementary, Jr high, and high in a mile of each other). Police roam freely and respond within two minutes. But if the BG pops the fire alarm it's chaos and a mass shooting is easy.

 Luciferian wrote:
These kids may not watch much mainstream media but of course they know their actions will be extensively covered by it. That has to be part of the motivation. People like this are usually extremely isolated; they either have no one to express themselves to or they don't know how. This is an extremely effective way to get some attention, as horrible as that is.

Since we're talking about mental health, I can assume the shooter was white?