Switch Theme:

Ogre Kingdoms Questions  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Thundertusk or Stonehorn? and why?


How do Ogre charge work? if I'm 3x4 do i get 3 impact hits+ranks? or is it 12 impact hits+ranks? The book doesn't describe it too well.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Re the ogre charge - each ogre in the front rank causes an impact hit (so 3 in your case) but they apply +1 strength per rank to those hits. I can't recall if there was a cap on this value.
It's worth noting that if you roll more than 10 on the dice you then do D3 impacts per front rank ogre.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I'm truly not attempting to game the game here, but the book i have doesn't specify that it's the "front" rank, so is that in an errata that I need to find?

And the 10 is for charge range, tracking that part.
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

As or the first question, Thundertusk or Stonehorn.

I would go with both, but each has specific advantages.

Thundertusk is a better support monster the ASL from ice breath allows your low initiative ogres to hit first, but really when you look at it it seldoms matters if they don't, and when it does matter the opponent will pick fights out of range of your mammoth, which cant be everywhere. It is still a good monster to support your ogre units and it holds its own in combat.

Stonehorn are melee beatsticks pure and simple. They do what the fluff says, stomp things into paste. What is nice about them is the ability to mitigate damage, unless facing a lot of cannon it should reach combat where it will do some damage. Stonehorn are simpler to use and don't require synergy with your list, but it doesnt actually do anything you can't do with Mournfangs.

Both are good, but the golden choice to go for are Ironblasters.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Poxed Plague Monk




Palmer, AK

Saniles wrote:
I'm truly not attempting to game the game here, but the book i have doesn't specify that it's the "front" rank, so is that in an errata that I need to find?

And the 10 is for charge range, tracking that part.



That would be found in the main rulebook under "impact hits".

"Impact Hits are resolved at the very beginning of the close combat, before challenges are issued and attacks of any kind are make. They hit a unit in BASE CONTACT...if the MODEL WITH IMPACT HITS IS NOT IN BASE CONTACT with the enemy, this rule has no effect". pg 71, emphasis mine.


Ogres get a special rule that allows models who are in subsequent ranks to add to the S of the impact hit, but you must still be in base contact with the enemy in order to cause the hit, per the rulebook.

 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

It helps to note what base contact means. You must have sufficient movement remaining for the bases to touch. It is common for bases to stop a short distance before due to the models.

You can also drift you unit to get more bases (but never less) into combat so long as the maximum movement distance is not exceeded.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 badguyshaveallthefun wrote:
Saniles wrote:
I'm truly not attempting to game the game here, but the book i have doesn't specify that it's the "front" rank, so is that in an errata that I need to find?

And the 10 is for charge range, tracking that part.



That would be found in the main rulebook under "impact hits".

"Impact Hits are resolved at the very beginning of the close combat, before challenges are issued and attacks of any kind are make. They hit a unit in BASE CONTACT...if the MODEL WITH IMPACT HITS IS NOT IN BASE CONTACT with the enemy, this rule has no effect". pg 71, emphasis mine.


Ogres get a special rule that allows models who are in subsequent ranks to add to the S of the impact hit, but you must still be in base contact with the enemy in order to cause the hit, per the rulebook.



I must have kept missing that part when I read the rules, I swear I read the Impact Hits rule at least twice. In either case, thank you for the clarification!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Orlanth wrote:
As or the first question, Thundertusk or Stonehorn.

I would go with both, but each has specific advantages.

Thundertusk is a better support monster the ASL from ice breath allows your low initiative ogres to hit first, but really when you look at it it seldoms matters if they don't, and when it does matter the opponent will pick fights out of range of your mammoth, which cant be everywhere. It is still a good monster to support your ogre units and it holds its own in combat.

Stonehorn are melee beatsticks pure and simple. They do what the fluff says, stomp things into paste. What is nice about them is the ability to mitigate damage, unless facing a lot of cannon it should reach combat where it will do some damage. Stonehorn are simpler to use and don't require synergy with your list, but it doesnt actually do anything you can't do with Mournfangs.

Both are good, but the golden choice to go for are Ironblasters.


For the foreseeable future, I will probably face off against O&G. The only alternative at the moment would be Vampires, Warriors (least likely, not geographically nearby atm), Skaven, WE. I figure that with the WE lists I will likely face, it's more important that I beat them to death faster rather than worry about the ASL part since it's mostly the shooting that's the problem.

Vampires - my friend runs a very large block of crypt ghouls, so I'm not sure about this one really.... he is going to hit me a LOT of times, so maybe the ASL with these guys and perhaps the warriors when I get near that other friend of mine, will be good....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/26 00:08:26


 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Saniles wrote:


For the foreseeable future, I will probably face off against O&G. The only alternative at the moment would be Vampires, Warriors (least likely, not geographically nearby atm), Skaven, WE. I figure that with the WE lists I will likely face, it's more important that I beat them to death faster rather than worry about the ASL part since it's mostly the shooting that's the problem.

Vampires - my friend runs a very large block of crypt ghouls, so I'm not sure about this one really.... he is going to hit me a LOT of times, so maybe the ASL with these guys and perhaps the warriors when I get near that other friend of mine, will be good....


Given having just one big monster I would go for the Stonehorn. It requires no synergy to work, it is fine on its own, point it at the enemy and roll dice. O&G are resilient against bashing, as are Vampires and Ogres are a resilient army with a relatively low throw weight. That is to say the volume of attacks per point is well under the average, Ogre charge helps offset this a little, but this is overmatched by steadfast. To be honest Vampire Counts and Orcs are two bad opponents to face, both can laugh at the casualties you cause on the charge then wear you down with resilient or raised meat.
Stonehorn are a good solution, tough enough not to bleed combat res and monsterous enough for Thunderstomp.

At 250pts you will be better off having six ogres instead, as a unit with full command for basic ogres, and apoints to spare, or otherwise. Howerver while another block of ogres will be more points efficient this is not an either/or; you will have plenty of opportunities to take more core ogres in an ogre army, but your ogre army will get boring quickly if you do. A monster is a decent alternate outlay.

Do buy the Ogre getting started box for AoS. The models come heretically based which will involve a further outlay for bases from GW, but the starter kit is solid choice.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Start-Collecting-Beastclaw-Raiders (shop about elsewhere for discounted prices on core boxsets)
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-75x50mm-Rectangular-Bases (you might have to pay GW for the bases, but check ebay first)
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-150x100mm-Rectangular-Base

Consider buying two sets to model both a Stonehorn and a Thundertusk, they are awesome wonderful models and your wallet will forgive you when you make them. You can magnetise apparently but it might be less hassle not to bother. The kits do have lots of extras for customising characters and for making a Hunter, Do you need a Thundertusk and a Stonehorn? Yes for fun, but not really at the same time, but it is good to have the choice between the two and you can more easily say yes to 3000pt and 4000pt games with a little creativity with your selection of core and characters. The main question will be could you make use of eight Mournfangs.
I for one found that too many and sourced a second Thundertusk/Stonehorn kit on ebay.


Another thing about the Stonehorn, because you can put a Hunter on it you can tool it up. This is a very expensive option so it is not advised for most lists, but there is something to be said for a Ld9 stubborn Stonehorn, even if it costs c400pts to field one. I would keep the Hunter ogre model loose for a swap in. It is worth modeling him up as a rider variant for the cool poses you get from the model, with his crossbow and his vulture. It is a pity Hunters are overpriced for what they do in 8th, the plastic model on the monster kit is awesome, better IMHO than the finecast/metal character set mini.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

I've never had issues fighting horde armies with ogres.

One thing to learn, and learn to abuse, is how characters work in combat in a ranked unit. Since Ogre units are typically only 4-6 models wide, a single character takes a lot of that frontage. Combine this with the rule that if enemy models are only in base contact with a character they, and any supporting attacks, can only target that character. In this way, with a unit that has a couple of ogre characters in it, you can force a good chunk of their attacks to go against the superior stats of your characters instead of the unit.

So say you have a unit of 9 Ogre Bulls, full command and iron fists. You've attached your BSB and your Slaughter Master to the unit. You are running the unit 3 models wide. In combat, this means that the Champion, Musician, and Standard bearer will be in the front rank. Your BSB and Slaughter Master have the option of either hiding behind them, since characters are only forced to move forward and displace non-command models. Say both models move forward. They displace the Musician and the Standard bearer and share the front rank with the Champion(who is a character FYI).

Now suddenly when the enemy is attacking you in combat... Absolutely NONE of their attacks can be allocated against the unit itself. There are no grunts in the front rank. Attacks allocated against the champion can only kill the champion, there is no overflow back to the unit till he dies. Which means at least one round of combat where the unit basically can only take 3 wounds. Other attacks can only be allocated among the BSB, Champion, and Slaughter Master. In this way, you can severely cut down on the wounds you suffer in combat, particularly against the poorer stats of Orks or Undead. They'll be trying to hid high WS and Toughness characters with good saves.

Another way to limit damage is with challenges. Remember that models involved in a challenge CANNOT be allocated attacks from models not involved in the challenge. If any models are only base to base with a model involved in a challenge, their attacks are lost completely as they have no target.

Just to illustrate this,

A unit of Orks led by a Warboss are fighting the above unit of Ogres. O is ork boy, S is standard, C is champion, M is musicion, W is Warboss

OOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOO
OOSCMWOOOO
SlmChamBSB
StanMuscOgr
Ogr,Ogr,Ogr
Ogr,Ogr,Ogr

Distances are approximate but you'll get the idea.

The Warboss and BSB are fighting in a challenge, their bases are touching corner to corner. The Orks highlighted in Red(and all their supporting attacks) will be unable to fight at all this combat at all because their only valid target would be the BSB, who is in a challenge. Meanwhile, the blue orks will only be able to fight the Slaughter Master(Slm) because they are only in base contact with him, and thus will be attacking his WS and Toughness values.

The orks in between will have a few more choices, but none of them are good. They could attack the Champion, but again they'll never do more damage than 3 wounds because excess from characters does NOT spill over to the unit. Meanwhile, the ogre rank and file will have no such limitations. They'll be free to attack the Ork rank and file just fine. And you simply build your characters to be very tanky and durable. You then win because your rank and file are able to get massive damage onto the enemy units while your characters minimize the damage caused in return. Thus allowing you to win the attrition war against larger units.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/03/10 06:07:56


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

That does work but it has advantages and disadvantages. Wider bases mean deeper bases and long flanks in order to generate a rank bonus. A challenge might be exactly what the opponent wants as it will cut down on the number of models you can attack with. It is quite possible to be in a challenge fight against a legal opponent who only has one model of your in contact beyond the challenging pair, this is a good way to tarpit your ogres.

If you want deep ranked meat terrain, as depicted with your four rank unit, a turned flank now turns your block of bulls into a roadblock against your own maneuver while offering large flanks with little opportunity to counter flankers in turn.

Yes the strategy does work, but it is not a win button.

Also you can afford to do this with one unit maybe two, and both border on deathstar unit cost. Ogres are at max efficiency in two ranks of three, and you can afford a number of units in this alignment, but you cant realistically add characters to them as you suggest. In my opinion T5 is your defence, not attack mitigation, instead try to win combats on wounds dealt with efficient two rank ogre blocks with all ogres swinging. You will face steadfast anyway, but multiple six ogre blocks will quickly erode away support of secondary units in a turn or two, and then turn the flank themselves to support other blocks facing tougher opponents.

With ogres you need to go guts out and use your strengths, mitigating incoming damage with super anvils might not help your overall strategy, your main blocks need to trample over the enemy, not hold them off. An overly defensive configuration earns you fewer favours. I do see value in larger blocks of nine to twelve ogres, but that is mostly themeatic.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Well with the large bases of ogre characters, they are usually still in base contact with another legal target for their supporting attacks even while in a challenge. I've never had it be anything other than a benefit.

And yes, you are generally limited to only doing this with 1 unit or so.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Well with the large bases of ogre characters, they are usually still in base contact with another legal target for their supporting attacks even while in a challenge. I've never had it be anything other than a benefit.

And yes, you are generally limited to only doing this with 1 unit or so.


Yes you can benefit, and your tactic while a little cheesy is valid and legal. I wouldnt want to use the rules to engineer a situation where I can say, all my units in base to base and supporting get to attack, but you can only attack the characters. It is a little unfair, logically but not according to the rules both sides should be able to reach over and poke rank and file.

Nevertheless it is a well used strategy but not so much for ogres, they don't frankly need it. Bretonnians do however, they need it a lot, and as their army was neglected such a long time and having a lance of knights entirely fronted with characters plays to their fluff as much as their rules - they get a pass.

Anyway back to your character fronted block of ogres. The orc player you are facing from the example doesn't face off with orcs, you can somehow make him do so, but Ogres dont get lore of shadows to sneak move and an ogre deathstar is not something you cant see coming. I would counter it with a column of night goblins, with or without fanatics, it doesn't matter too much because you dont expect to ever win the points from the block, just to tarpit it. Lots of gobbos will die, so you will need a relief column (or two) to step in when steadfast is likely to drop.
This is admittedly a 12" tether for the orc BSB and warlord, and you could exploit that with other ogres, but I reckon the orc player will be able to muster stronger surrounding assets.

All in all I wouldnt use this against a horde army, against an army where you expect to find large expensive blocks and limited support, High Elves for instance, you might get better results. If your ogre trick stops a Phoenixguardstar with Banner of World Dragon, then not only will I endorse but wholeheartedly cheer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/12 01:06:27


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Again, I've never had issues with hordes of weak stuff. That was generally what I faced most of the time.

Note that I'm rarely sending blocks in alone. That block of Ogres will usually have a Stonehorn or something helping it as well, which can easily break steadfast on most blocks in one round. While any enemy blocks that lack characters will be getting hit by Mournfangs/Rhinox Riders, who absolutely WILL murder blocks of cheap infantry in no more than two rounds of combat, and often just one.

And of course there is the tried and true Sabretusk blockers to keep any other enemy blocks from engaging you immediately

Really what gives Ogres issues are more elite armies with high WS that also combine that with nuke spells. Our characters are also vulnerable to true combat characters, like Vampire lords, Chaos Lords, and the like. Our characters personal damage output is only middling in comparison and we will usually lose vs dedicated challenge monkeys. Our only hope is that we can last long enough to kill the enemy troops around their characters, winning the combat massively, and routing the enemy.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/12 01:20:44


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Again, I've never had issues with hordes of weak stuff. That was generally what I faced most of the time.

Note that I'm rarely sending blocks in alone. That block of Ogres will usually have a Stonehorn or something helping it as well, which can easily break steadfast on most blocks in one round. While any enemy blocks that lack characters will be getting hit by Mournfangs/Rhinox Riders, who absolutely WILL murder blocks of cheap infantry in no more than two rounds of combat, and often just one.

And of course there is the tried and true Sabretusk blockers to keep any other enemy blocks from engaging you immediately

Really what gives Ogres issues are more elite armies with high WS that also combine that with nuke spells. Our characters are also vulnerable to true combat characters, like Vampire lords, Chaos Lords, and the like. Our characters personal damage output is only middling in comparison and we will usually lose vs dedicated challenge monkeys. Our only hope is that we can last long enough to kill the enemy troops around their characters, winning the combat massively, and routing the enemy.


I am interested in your list. A Bullstar with a Stonehorn and Mournfangs doesnt leave a lot else.

Agreed that Ogre characters are more puffed up than built up and are more vulnerable than they look. It doesn't require a Chaos character or blender Vamp to kill either, even human characters are dangerous because of the low I of ogres. Ogre Tyrants swing after a lot of mid range ridden monsters, just not the orc ones. A human on a griffon/hippogriff is dangerous enough.

Sabretusks are great but are vulnerable to low volume shooting like you see from skirmish units or characters. For this reason I suggest taking small blocks of gnoblars too, the mix is better than either/or, each have a different chaff role.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Well that's where the speed of Ogre units is a benefit. You'll pretty much always have the first charge. Gnobbos are good chaff, but they often have trouble keeping up. Speed 4 vs most other stuff being 6+

Here is one of my lists that I did pretty well with.

Lords
Slaughter Master: lvl4 Gutmagic, Ironfist, Armor of Destiny, Crown of Command, Channeling Staff. 388 pts

Heroes
Bruiser: BSB, Ironfist, Heavy Armor, Talisman of Preservation, Warrior Bane. 188 pts
Butcher: lvl2 Heavens, Ironfist, Dispel Scroll. 163 pts

Core
9 Ironguts: Full Command, Standard of Discipline 432 pts
9 Ogres: Ironfists, Full Command 258 pts
9 Ogres: Ironfists, Full Command 258 pts
10 Gnoblars 25 pts
10 Gnoblars 25 pts

Special
1 Sabretusk 21 pts
1 Sabretusk 21 pts
1 Sabretusk 21 pts
4 Mournfangs: Full Command, Ironfists, Heavy Armor, Dragonhide Banner. 360 pts

Rare
Ironblaster 170
Ironblaster 170

2500/2500 pts

One good combo to remember with this list is the combo with Heavens and Gutmagic. You're guaranteed to get Iceshard Blizzard at the very least which is a good spell to start the magic phase off with. Its very easy to get off and it is a pretty big penalty to enemy's fighting a block of ogres because -1 to hit when you've also got not good odds for wounding is a bit of a bite. And -1 Ld is a big deal sometimes. And then every now and then you might get lucky and roll Comet as your 2nd spell.

Gutmagic is also a deceptively good lore. Lore Attribute heals the caster and gives you a +1 on the next spell(on 2+). Spinemarrow as a signature spell is decent, easily cast. Bonecrusher is a good magic missile for killing troops which rely on armor saves. Bullgorger, Toothcracker, and Trollguts are all obviously amazing, and all have the option to make it effect a bubble instead of a single target. Toothcracker and Trollguts especially. You make that ogre character deathstar +1 toughness, most opponent's eyes will bug out when you say that they need to wound toughness 6. And potentially Toughness 6 with Regeneration! And don't forget Mournfangs with Regeneration.

And as far as Nuke spells go, the Maw isn't a bad one. It effects the targets even if they pass the test. Though it is a quite risky spell because of what happens if you misfire.

Also, with the Ironblasters, don't be afraid to charge them into melee too. They're actually quite nasty if they get a charge off.

The other thing to remember is that unlike normal artillery pieces, Ironblasters are fairly well protected vs cannons because they can hide behind blocks of ogres. Cannonball bounces actually have painfully poor odds of penetrating a block of Ogres, while with normal infantry they just bounce right through. With monstrous infantry they have to kill each successive model to keep going. And the probability that a cannon actually kills a regular ogre is only 55.55%(5/6 chance of wound plus 2/3 chance of doing 3+ wounds). And that's before you add maybe Trollguts being in the picture, which cuts the odds down to 27.77% chance. And if it has to pass through multiple ogres...

Ironblasters can also move and shoot. Meaning they could start behind a building that totally blocks LoS, or a wall which stops cannonballs, etc...

Mournfangs are also the perfect thing to delete enemy tarpit unit, like zombies. On the turn they charge, 2+ armor/6+ parry Mournfangs with the Dragonhide Banner are obscenely durable vs the typical Str3 attacks they'd face. It takes something like 430 High Elf Spearmen or equivalent attacks to kill 1 Mournfang. And then the Mournfangs themselves will absolutely blend anything they hit.

Another thing to remember with ogres is that almost universally the entire army causes Fear. Remember those fear tests! One failed test and suddenly your enemy is Ws1.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/03/12 05:38:55


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Well that's where the speed of Ogre units is a benefit. You'll pretty much always have the first charge. Gnobbos are good chaff, but they often have trouble keeping up. Speed 4 vs most other stuff being 6+


Yep, why you need cats and gnoblars.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Here is one of my lists that I did pretty well with.


Lords
Slaughter Master: lvl4 Gutmagic, Ironfist, Armor of Destiny, Crown of Command, Channeling Staff. 388 pts

Heroes
Bruiser: BSB, Ironfist, Heavy Armor, Talisman of Preservation, Warrior Bane. 188 pts
Butcher: lvl2 Heavens, Ironfist, Dispel Scroll. 163 pts

Core
9 Ironguts: Full Command, Standard of Discipline 432 pts
9 Ogres: Ironfists, Full Command 258 pts
9 Ogres: Ironfists, Full Command 258 pts
10 Gnoblars 25 pts
10 Gnoblars 25 pts

Special
1 Sabretusk 21 pts
1 Sabretusk 21 pts
1 Sabretusk 21 pts
4 Mournfangs: Full Command, Ironfists, Heavy Armor, Dragonhide Banner. 360 pts

Rare
Ironblaster 170
Ironblaster 170

2500/2500 pts


I have seen the 2k verson of this list. Maving to 2.5k explains how you could afford what you took. Its still only one unit though and the opponent could choose to tarpit/avoid that one.
Your list is very solid though, however like Bretonnians there really are only one or two ways at most to make an Ogre army.

 Grey Templar wrote:

One good combo to remember with this list is the combo with Heavens and Gutmagic. You're guaranteed to get Iceshard Blizzard at the very least which is a good spell to start the magic phase off with. Its very easy to get off and it is a pretty big penalty to enemy's fighting a block of ogres because -1 to hit when you've also got not good odds for wounding is a bit of a bite. And -1 Ld is a big deal sometimes. And then every now and then you might get lucky and roll Comet as your 2nd spell.


I prefer to use a Firebelly, not only is the model awesome but the outlay and lore fits you will. You might get flaming sword, which is good for ogres, but more importantly you will get ranged fire attacks. Against skirmish armies and ethereal this is useful. Ogres suffer versus things like spirit hosts because they tend not to have the static rank bonus needed to crumble them and their impact hits and stomps are ignored. Being able to guarantee a burny spell is too big to pass up. Lore of Fire is overlooked, heavens and death, and perversely life have deadlier magic, but no other lore guarantees artillery mage functionality, and you need that with ogres. Fire breath and flaming attacks in general are good fringe bonuses, consider the first like a one off undispellable spell, the second a unit buff vs ethereal opponents.


 Grey Templar wrote:

Gutmagic is also a deceptively good lore. Lore Attribute heals the caster and gives you a +1 on the next spell(on 2+). Spinemarrow as a signature spell is decent, easily cast. Bonecrusher is a good magic missile for killing troops which rely on armor saves. Bullgorger, Toothcracker, and Trollguts are all obviously amazing, and all have the option to make it effect a bubble instead of a single target. Toothcracker and Trollguts especially. You make that ogre character deathstar +1 toughness, most opponent's eyes will bug out when you say that they need to wound toughness 6. And potentially Toughness 6 with Regeneration! And don't forget Mournfangs with Regeneration.


Gutmagic is an excellent lore because it is toolbox, generic and plays to the ogres strengths, you augment your already superior individuals with direct meaningful brutal combat buffs not bonuses to WS or the like.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Also, with the Ironblasters, don't be afraid to charge them into melee too. They're actually quite nasty if they get a charge off.


Countercharge. Like the Hellcannon they are artillery with the ability to defend themselves, they are there to shoot though and shouldnt charge unless you think you will be blocking LOS to targets or need the extra combat res.


 Grey Templar wrote:

Mournfangs are also the perfect thing to delete enemy tarpit unit, like zombies. On the turn they charge, 2+ armor/6+ parry Mournfangs with the Dragonhide Banner are obscenely durable vs the typical Str3 attacks they'd face. It takes something like 430 High Elf Spearmen or equivalent attacks to kill 1 Mournfang. And then the Mournfangs themselves will absolutely blend anything they hit.



Mornfangs are a unit you should only ever give a musician to. While mighty the unit has several hidden weaknesses. Champions are just bait for challenges and force you to concentrate all your attacks on one enemy champion who takes one for the team. It only takes one run of bad luck on the to-hit rolls to make clawing back static combat res difficult. So you can lose combat against large infantry blocks without having to be exceptionally unlucky. They are ld7 and have no rank bonus so if you lose combat you can lose the mournfang standard bearer. With small unit sizes you can fail a panic test after a bolt thrower shot takes out a mournfang. They are ld7 and not immune to psychology, so musician is essential. If I was to take a standard bearer I would consider Gleaming Pennant. for both the above reasons The standard bearer model looks awesome though. I use that banner for my BSB.

When facing undead watch out for the skellie champion tag team. It works like this, get two units of skels in base contact, set challenges. Each combat turn one skellie champion is squished by the powerful character, on the undead turn Nehek them both back (champions are always raised first). Now zombie dont have champions so you have less of a disadvantage there, but never underestimate the ability for zeds to tarpit anything. The only way to guarantee not being tarpitted by zeds is if you have movement rule options that allow you to leave combat. I don't think there are many such options in 8th, steam tank and shadow magic IIRC.
Against non undead armies the champion allows the opponent to tarpit you longer, its not worth it for +1A on an already brutal model.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Another thing to remember with ogres is that almost universally the entire army causes Fear. Remember those fear tests! One failed test and suddenly your enemy is Ws1.


Yep same mantra as for undead armies. It is up to you, not your opponent, to remember than your army causes fear.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/14 20:06:02


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
 
Forum Index » The Old World & Legacy Warhammer Fantasy Discussion
Go to: