Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I am making my list and am considering the following:

4 Wardens w/misercordias - 268 points
3 Allarus Custodians w/misericordia - 264 points

Both units will have 12 wounds each with the same attack profile (all with axes). Wardens have more melee attacks (there are more of them) and Allarus have more shooting. While Allarus have 4 wounds each vs 3 for the Wardens, Wardens have the additional 6+ FNP. Wardens can also deep strike for 1 CP

In a vacuum, which is usually the better bang for the buck?

The terminators are better - more specific strategems for them plus you don't have to use any CP to deep strike them. They also have the grenade launchers which can do some cool stuff like concussion grenades.

So you would you say Terminators based on strat support. I hadn't thought of that.

Point for point I think Wardems are the toughest and hittiest custodes. They miss out a bit on shooting compared to normal custodians though, and can’t take shields. Wardens are - in my opinion - the coolest models.

So I think it depends what you’re doing:

- If walking, take normal troops.

- In a transport take wardens. You get the best balance of hitting power to cost to space on the ride.

- Deep striking take terminators... or anything. It’s arguably better to pay a xp to drop in a troop unit, because if you’ve taken troops you’ll probably have more CPs. Dropping in 10 spearmen might have an impact, and doesn’t cost all that much less than 5 terminators.

- Or just spam bikes.

I'm one of the odd people that think bikes are great but I am not sold on the all bike armies I see floating around. Right now, I am working around a core of 3x3 Custodian guard squads with a captain on bike with 3-6 bikes. The rest will be out with things like wardens or terminators, vexillas, etc and other HQs

Rajah wrote:
So you would you say Terminators based on strat support. I hadn't thought of that.

Note that, uh, primark g tends to hold opinions contrary to most everyone else, who would say that wardens are the superior option

Take a read through the last 3-4 pages of the Tactics thread. It's mostly Bike Vs. Allarus discussion, but the math on Allarus should be useful to you.

I normally say Wardens for lower cost but if you're gonna take enough Wardens that cost balances out that changes things.

stratigo wrote:

Rajah wrote:
So you would you say Terminators based on strat support. I hadn't thought of that.

Note that, uh, primark g tends to hold opinions contrary to most everyone else, who would say that wardens are the superior option

I base what I say on results... not voidhammer.

 Primark G wrote:

stratigo wrote:

Rajah wrote:
So you would you say Terminators based on strat support. I hadn't thought of that.

Note that, uh, primark g tends to hold opinions contrary to most everyone else, who would say that wardens are the superior option

I base what I say on results... not voidhammer.

PEDM is an acronym for you to remember. Everyone proved you wrong on the math and basic logic/tactics in the Custodes Tactics thread.

In my experience of using both I prefer Wardens generally because they're more resistant to multi-damage attacks (12W broken up into more chunks, plus they take a lot more 2-damage attacks to drop than the Allarus). The Allarus get you more shots but they're not particularly reliable so if you take them assuming the Ballistus is going to be useful you'll be disappointed more often than not.

The Stratagems available for the Allarus are traps more often than not, and they're not a good reason to take a three-man unit given that they're only really useful for large units. Unleash The Lions is funny but wildly situational given that it interferes with Deep Strike (and Deep Strike without CP is the major reason you're taking Allarus over Wardens in the frist place), Inescapable Vengeance is really kind of pointless on a three-man Allarus unit given that they can't kill any characters that are worth getting the shots at 2CP at before charging (anything they can kill is kind of a waste of time to dump that many CPs into killing slightly earlier), the time you want that stratagem is if you've got a unit of 6-8 and can land them in a position to kill multiple support characters with that stratagem. Concussion Grenades is the only one that's really an effective addition to your arsenal, and I honestly don't think it's enough to justify taking Allarus over Wardens.

In a vacuum, take the Wardens. If you like the Allarus models and want to use them, use them but don't be surprised if you aren't impressed by their performance. If you're thinking "sure, but I can use the stratagems..." with three hundred points to put into a soup Vanguard detachment you'll get tools that'll do them better and get another Command Point to use on useful things like From The Golden Light, Indomitable Guardians, Piercing Strike, or charge distance rerolls.

TL;DR: If you want to use the Allarus build an army around using them. Without the Stratagems they're not really that effective and with the Stratagems you want a big unit, not three-man units.

Wardens are GENERALLY the superior unit. But I think if you want a back field deep strike unit choice, the Terminators have some merit.

I run both units... a squad of four Wardens and a squad of three Allarus. Both are armed with axes. Being able to shut down overwatch for multiple enemy units and being able to deep strike into reliable Charge range off a Vexilla are powerful. You’re going to use command points. I don’t see any strategems for Wardens being nearly as good but it’s nice to be able to deep strike them.

Who cares about shutting off Overwatch?

You get 5 wardens with castellan axes, or 4 allarus with axes and with misericordias for the price of 260 roughly

Wardens (shooting) vs t7
6 shots is 5.04 hits which is 1.61 wounds, .52 not saved for potential 2 damage.
Total: 1.04

Wardens (shooting) vs t8
6 shots is 5.04 hits which is .81 wounds, .26 not saved for potential 2 damage.
Total: .52


Allarus (shooting) vs t7
6 shots is 5.04 hits which is 1.61 wounds, .52 not saved for potential 2 damage.
(grenade launcher) 6 shots is 5.04 hits which is 1.61 wounds .8 not saved
Total: 1.84

Allarus (shooting) vs t8
6 shots is 5.04 hits which is .81 wounds, .26 not saved for potential 2 damage.
(grenade launcher) 6 shots is 5.04 hits which is .81 wounds, .41 not saved
total: .93


Wardens (melee) vs T7
(axe)12 attacks is 9.6 hits, 6.53 wounds, 3.26 not saved
(knife) 3 attacks is 2.52, .81 wounds, .40 not saved
Total: 6.93

Wardens (melee) vs T8
(axe)12 attacks is 9.6 hits, 4.8 wounds, 2.4 not saved
(knife) 3 attacks is 2.52, .81 wounds, .40 not saved
Total: 5.2


Allarus (melee) vs T7
(axe)12 attacks is 9.6 hits, 6.53 wounds, 3.26 not saved
(knife) 2 attacks is 1.6, .51 wounds, .26 not saved
Total: 6.78

Allaruss (melee) vs T8
(axe)12 attacks is 9.6 hits, 4.8 wounds, 2.4 not saved
(knife) 2 attacks is 1.6, .51 wounds, .26 not saved
Total:5.06

T7 (shooting)
W=1.04, A=1.82,

T7(melee)
W=6.93, A=6.78,

T8 (shooting)
W=.52, A=.93

T8 (melee)
W=5.20, A=5.06


T7 (melee +shooting)
W= 7.97,
A=8.6,

T8(melee+shooting)
W= 5.72
A=5.99


They are pretty close to one another damage wise vs t7 or t8. If you want to save on points take wardens, if you want to save on command points take allarus.

That’s a good comparison and fair.

If your jetbike Captain was down to his last wound and needed a charge to win the game wouldn’t it be advantageous to stop overwatch?

Lots of interesting thoughts in this thread. I'll have to think about the CP investment of taking wardens.