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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Hi there. I'm very new to miniature painting and have run in to some issues when varnishing my models. It looks as though when I am applying a coat of gloss varnish it is 'melting' the paints, and ruining the detail I put on.
I had initially though I was maybe imagining it, but seeing it obviously happen to this guy (who I spent a lot of time on), I stopped and decided to find out what I'm doing wrong before I destroy all my handiwork:



As you can see, on the lower back (which is where I started applying my gloss varnish) the dry-brushed highlights have now transformed into mostly a single dull grey colour, but the fur toward the head (which I have not varnished) still shows a light grey highlight.

I have not been able to find anywhere that explains how to avoid this problem or that anyone has had it happen to them (searching is made especially difficult though by how the majority of varnish videos/forum posts are about preventing frosting anyway)
As such, I have 2 questions :-

What am I doing wrong?
- My suspicion is that I'm either applying too much varnish or applying it too forcefully, but I'm worried about experimenting further.
- In case it's related to the products I'm using: I am using paint-on Vallejo Polyurethane Gloss Varnish on top of Vallejo Game Color paints. (Note: I will be applying a Matt varnish once I'm done with the gloss coat - I'm not just leaving it shiny!)

Is there an easy way to fix this? (i.e. re-add the detail)
- Essentially, can I dry brush again on to the varnish or will the paint not stick?
   
Made in us
Utilizing Careful Highlighting





at the keyboard

Varnish will tend to lower the detail of a drybrush layer. It's one way to bring down a DB layer when you've over done it a bit.

If you don't like the way it looks, definitely put another drybrush layer on.

I don't know if gloss does this more than matte varnish, I usually don't bother with a gloss except for decals and metal models.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Im just wondering why your glossing then matt coating i dont thinks its really makes much diffrence, i feel bad seeing that work dissapear tho hope you find a way to get the results you want

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/18 17:42:56


 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







Gloss varnish tends to be more hard wearing. So you use the gloss for protection then put a layer of Matt over the top to cut the shine.

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in us
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge




Kirkland, WA

Phantass, you've already gotten some feedback and, yes, in my experience using lighter coats of varnish significantly reduces the amount of detail that is lost.

For some reason I've also found that waiting a day to varnish also helps. Perhaps the acrylic paint needs to cure once you've finished painting the model.
   
Made in us
Repentia Mistress






Acrylics must be fully dry before you apply varnish. Type of topcoat also matters - some types will eat acrylic.

I tend to use the crystal clear acrylic from krylon, and a thin topcoat of their mat. Creates a solid, semi-gloss (more on the neutral/matt side) and doesn't impact paint at all


 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Los Angeles, CA, USA

 Flinty wrote:
Gloss varnish tends to be more hard wearing. So you use the gloss for protection then put a layer of Matt over the top to cut the shine.


This is an oft quoted thing in miniatures circles, but it's not true.

http://iwillnevergrowup.com/2014/03/28/hobby-tips-gloss-varnish-vs-matt-varnish-the-logical-myth-explained/
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







I stand informed. And remember kids, knowing is half the battle

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






I don't think that article is very accurate in that it is omitting some things.

The agents that make it matte and make it gloss do have an impact on durability. If for no other reason than what actually makes the surface Matte is it's roughness. A rough surface is going to have more friction and thus take more abuse as objects rub over it (wear and tear from handling). That is not the only reason. It's just one of the reasons a matte varnish is not as durable as a gloss.

Gloss Paint product across the board have longer expected life than equivalent quality products with a lower shine level.

Their conclusion is mostly that people who apply a matte varnish apply a single thin layer while people who apply a gloss and than a matte apply 2 good layers and thus get more durability. What they don't bother to test is 1 good layer of matte vs 1 good layer of gloss. Where the gloss would win out.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





The reasons above are accurate to a point but amount of fiction diffrence is going to be so small i would really question if it had any effect during the life time of the model.

Either way the net result is the same if your matt varnish wears away you have to replace it and its not like unvarnish models wear away instanly so you have plenty of time to recoat
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Thanks for all the replies guys.

Just as a point, the paint was certainly dry (It had been a few days at least since I don't always have much time to paint).
I'll try a few things, like maybe going straight to matte, and see how that turns out
I'll update the thread if there are any interesting results that could help others in future.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Having got back at it, and not having the same problem I'm pretty sure this was due to me being too liberal with my application.
I had been leaving big blobs on the brush and then just spreading them about on the model. Instead, making sure the brush was loaded but not overflowing has meant I am now fine.
   
Made in us
Boosting Ultramarine Biker




Illinois, USA

Phanttas wrote:
Having got back at it, and not having the same problem I'm pretty sure this was due to me being too liberal with my application.
I had been leaving big blobs on the brush and then just spreading them about on the model. Instead, making sure the brush was loaded but not overflowing has meant I am now fine.


I would suggest spraying on your topcoat. Dry brushed paint doesn't adhere as well as wet paint that's been brushed on. When you brush varnish ON, you're brushing the dry brushed paint OFF.
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






Ultra Grey wrote:
Phanttas wrote:
Having got back at it, and not having the same problem I'm pretty sure this was due to me being too liberal with my application.
I had been leaving big blobs on the brush and then just spreading them about on the model. Instead, making sure the brush was loaded but not overflowing has meant I am now fine.


I would suggest spraying on your topcoat. Dry brushed paint doesn't adhere as well as wet paint that's been brushed on. When you brush varnish ON, you're brushing the dry brushed paint OFF.


I can agree with this. For my necrons I general sprayed a matte clear coat and then brushed on Ard'Coat to gloss back up the shiny bits. Res orbs, eyes, weapon blades.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
 
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