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Going for a friendly game against a tau player, however, he said that his list is specifically built to kill space marines. Below is a list of everything I own, not very much.

I have a tentative list built around Lias Issodon and his special abilities. I definately want to include the Relic Contemptor bc it puts out so much dakka.

What do you think I should take, and more importantly, what should I stay away from when going against TAU? Any input from TAU players is definitely appreciated as well.

Thanks guys!

+ HQ+

Captain in Cataphractii Armor [8 PL, 163pts]: Chainfist, Combi-plasma
Captain in Terminator Armor [7 PL, 123pts]: Relic blade , Storm bolter
Chaplain [5 PL, 79pts]: Plasma pistol
Chaplain [6 PL, 102pts]: Jump Pack, Power fist
Lieutenants [5 PL, 90pts] Bolt pistol, Jump Pack, Power fist
Lieutenants [4 PL, 60pts] Bolt pistol, Chainsword

+ Troops [29 PL, 495pts] +
Scout Squad [6 PL, 90pts]: 5x Camo cloak, 5x Sniper Rifle, 1x Combat Knife
Tactical Squad [9 PL, 160pts] 7x Boltgun, Chainsword, Plasma pistol, Heavy bolter, Plasma gun
Tactical Squad [9 PL, 160pts] 7x Boltgun, Chainsword, Plasma pistol, Heavy bolter, Plasma gun
Tactical Squad [5 PL, 85pts] 3x Boltgun, Chainsword, Plasma pistol, Plasma gun

+ Elites
Cataphractii Terminator Squad [12 PL, 235pts]
4x Combi-bolter, Grenade harness, Power sword, Power fist, Heavy flamer OR 10x Lightning Claws
(lightning claws can be swapped out, all magnetized)

Dreadnought [7 PL, 139pts]: Multi-melta

Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 201pts]: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Heavy flamer, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon

Sternguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 163pts]
3x Combi-plasma, 2x Meltagun, Power sword

Terminator Squad [24 PL, 427pts]: Teleport Homer
Power sword, 8x Storm bolter, 9x Power Fist, Assault cannon, Heavy flamer

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad [8 PL, 150pts] 1x Boltgun, 3x Missile launcher, 1x Heavy bolter

Forge World

+ HQ
Lias Issodon [10 PL, 195pts]

Elites
Relic Contemptor Dreadnought [13 PL, 237pts]: Cyclone missile launcher, Kheres assault cannon, Multi-melta

++ Total: [155 PL, 2859pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

only the Characters, Sergeants, Boltguns and missile launchers are glued, everything else is either pinned or magnetized.

Well one issue is you're not infiltrating anything worth infiltrating with Lias.

Ouch thats harsh, lol. What do you suggest as a good unit to infiltrate with? I thought sternguards where pretty good, plus the 2 full tactical squads, and drop in the LT with jump pack for the wound rerolls.

I'm toying with a raptors list.

TBH, I think that a max sternguard unit with no uprades is a better way to go. Your special issue bolters are pretty solid and the stratagem that gives you +1 to wound works well enough even against light vehicles. Plus you'll get way more shots off with rapid fire. Also with Lias, a devastator squad with multimeltas.

My plan is Lias with multimelta devs, full ten man sternguard and an ancient with the SEA. Then complement that with a j-pack librarian or lieutenant. Maybe some reavers to bolster the DS. You could throw in another max squad. nothing like 30 marines in your lines to wreak havoc on ones plans.

With Lias Devastators are arguably the best options, Sternguard are ok but they are very squishy so you have to be careful. I agree keep them cheap if you are taking them though. SIB or SB on the Sternguard, Devs go with Multi-meltas and Grav/HB

I played the game this morning. I took 3 full squads of regular marines with lias plus a lieutenant. They did some decent damage, most of it coming from my plasma weapons. I also took a squad of cataphractii terminators with lightning claws and chaplain on a different flank. I castled a captain and a lieutenant with devastaors and dreadnoughts. It worked decently well. The sheer number of bodies made it difficult for the tau player to properly deal with the ambush and my dreads soaked up a lot of firepower as well.

In conclusion: lias plus devastator would have worked better, I just don't have the models. Now I know my next investment. This strategy may not work very well against horde armies or ig because they can simply screen their lines with the large number of models they bring.

There are ways around that too. Taking other units that can DS or SftS that are good at killing hordes can do wonders against screens. A unit of bolter Inceptors kill 6-7 Guardsmen, a 10 man Sternguard unit will kill almost 11 Guardsmen, and Devs with HBs will do 6.5 dead Guardsmen. There are options to get rid of screens pretty well depending on what you have. The other thing to consider is taking longer range anti horde and wait till turn 2-3 for the Lias bomb so you have time to clear the chaff.

I see you like to math hammer as well.

I will try that next time, waiting until later to drop in lias. Until I get some devastator models with the cool guns I am kinda stuck with what I have. I rely on my dreads to clear the chaff. Between 4 of them its 32 shots at -1 ap from assault cannons.

The other unit I like for large groups of low level enemies is my cataphractii, 5 pairs of lightning claws and sergeant with chain fist, along with a chaplain. Instead of Deep striking them I use STFS, that way they can still move, making the charge that much shorter. This forces the other player to decide between focusing a lot of fire power on them or risking getting in close combat with them. Its expensive at 300 points for that but even if they get shot down, those are shots that could have gone into my dreads. When I get them in combat I use the stratagem that lets them fight twice in a row.

What is better to use with lias, 3x squads, 2x plasma 1x HB. Or 2x squads and 1x 5 man sternguards with 3x plasma and 2x melta?

Personally, I would take the 2 squads with the Sternguard.

You can't use SFTS because if your army has the <Raptors> keyword it can't have the <Raven guard> keywords. Meaning you can use the chapter tactic of -1 to hit at 12"... but not the Raven Guard strategem or Shrike.
I am also working on a list built around Lias. Although I have had great success this edition with my Raven guard army.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
You can't use SFTS because if your army has the <Raptors> keyword it can't have the <Raven guard> keywords. Meaning you can use the chapter tactic of -1 to hit at 12"... but not the Raven Guard strategem or Shrike.
I am also working on a list built around Lias. Although I have had great success this edition with my Raven guard army.

Uhh, this is not true. Raptors are a successor chapter so you can. Check your Codex (I'm on a phone so I can't cite).

"any ADEPTUS ASTARTES unit that
has one of the following Faction keywords: <CHAPTER>, ULTRAMARINES, IMPERIAL FISTS, SALAMANDERS, WHITE SCARS, RAVEN GUARD, IRON HANDS, CRIMSON FISTS or BLACK TEMPLARS. A Space Marines Detachment is therefore one which only includes units with one of these keywords"

"During deployment, you can set up Lias Issodon and up to 3 friendly RAPTORS infantry units..."
Sounds pretty clear to me that Only Raven guard can use the Raven guard strategem and only Raptors can come onto the board with Lias. Unless you had a soup army of both.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
"any ADEPTUS ASTARTES unit that
has one of the following Faction keywords: <CHAPTER>, ULTRAMARINES, IMPERIAL FISTS, SALAMANDERS, WHITE SCARS, RAVEN GUARD, IRON HANDS, CRIMSON FISTS or BLACK TEMPLARS. A Space Marines Detachment is therefore one which only includes units with one of these keywords"

"During deployment, you can set up Lias Issodon and up to 3 friendly RAPTORS infantry units..."
Sounds pretty clear to me that Only Raven guard can use the Raven guard strategem and only Raptors can come onto the board with Lias. Unless you had a soup army of both.

That's because you're not looking in the right place.

Page 195 "Chapter Tactics"
If your Chapter does not have an associated Chapter Tactic, use the Chapter Tactic of its founding Chapter. For example, CRIMSON FISTS are a successor Chapter of the IMPERIAL FISTS, so should use the Chapter Tactic of the IMPERIAL FISTS.

Page 196 "Stratagems"
If your Chapter does not have any associated Stratagems, you can use the Stratagems of its founding Chapter. For example, CRIMSON FISTS are a successor Chapter of the IMPERIAL FISTS, so you can use the Bolter Drill Stratagem to affect a CRIMSON FISTS INFANTRY unit just as if were an IMPERIAL FISTS unit.

I stand corrected. This was my original thought not long ago but was told by more than one person that I was wrong based on the keywords. So then would this stop me from using shrike and Lias if I so choose? They are both chapter masters after all.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
I stand corrected. This was my original thought not long ago but was told by more than one person that I was wrong based on the keywords. So then would this stop me from using shrike and Lias if I so choose? They are both chapter masters after all.

I'm sad to post again because my post count is at 1337 prior to this and I still remember the days of leet speak. Anyway:

It's because you don't get a specific exception to allow Shrike to effect Raptors and Lias to work on Raven Guard. The two rules I cited give explicit permission to use CT and stratagems as if they were the founding chapter, but nothing on Shrike's datasheet says "Raven Guard and successor chapters". It just says "Raven Guard". Same for Lias.

So you could use both of them in the same detachment, but you would lose the benefit of having a pure detachment of either and Shrike's buff wouldn't effect Raptors and vice-versa for Lias. It's just a matter of a specific exception having been carved out for these two issues but not for other issues.

Leet speak isn't dead. It just took another form in the stupid things people text to each other. I still to this day hate hearing "hashtag" anything. It's a friggin pound sign.

Thanks for the clarification. I have bookmarked those section in the codex for when people in my gaming group inevitably call me out.