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This year already saw a new faction introduced, in the form of Adeptus Custodes, so this might give more hope for people waiting for other factions as well, namely Sisters in plastic or them plus the Inquisition in a single Codex


However after reading the Dark Angels codex, I saw something more mentioned, multiple times:


Luther being saved by Daemons and gathering strength, gathering his own army and collecting a chapter worth of strength under his banner, uniting the fallen under his command.


As someone torn between Chaos and the Imperium, this would be my one of my favorite factions, as I like most things about the dark angels, except for them being over the top moody, with a stick up their ass at all times. Would like the same individuality and focus, but with more freedom and that's where Chaos comes in, Chaos is freedom!

More Importantly, codex also hints new units, the "Inevitable introduction of Primaris Marines into the Deathwing" - what does that mean? Steroid bros are getting an even more armored look and meat in the form of Primaris Deathwing Knights and Terinators


AND EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY, this would be a legit reason for Lion El Johnson to finally stretch his arms after a good long sleep

There was also the vision that Ezekial saw that showed him a reborn army of fallen upon Caliban, and that a huge number of them are trapped within the warp, ready and waiting to be called. Not just a chapter's command worth that Luther had been gathering, but an army comparable to The First Legion as it was during the crusade itself.

How would the Fallen even differentiate themselves as an army? It'd just be Codex: Even Darker Angels. Not a fan of this idea.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
How would the Fallen even differentiate themselves as an army? It'd just be Codex: Even Darker Angels. Not a fan of this idea.

A faction aligned with Chaos, but able to use Space Marine stuff, best part about that - you could easily convert your marine models to Chaos


Also due to more individual nature of the Fallen, there is plenty you could do to them, like roll on Chaos boon table for each model, not just the characters, to emphasize just how much each of these guys has went through

To have no lower limit on unit size, like allowing 1 man troop choices

Have them buffed individually and point cost increased, you could go for Adeptus Custodes style army with these guys, but for Chaos instead of Imperium


Or make them work like Deathwatch of Chaos, with some tainted magic sprinkled here and there


Allow them to have looting related gear/abilities, like a fallen being able to operate the gun of a broken down vehicle or pick up a Missile Launcher off the ground


There is a lot of stuff that can be done to make emm feel different, maybe also let them take Xenos technology as well

Primaris terminators seem like a logical "wave 2" choice. currently there is no "vetern primaris squad" and that seems like a rather major omission, especially for the all primaris ultima founding chapters

 Dovis wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
How would the Fallen even differentiate themselves as an army? It'd just be Codex: Even Darker Angels. Not a fan of this idea.

A faction aligned with Chaos, but able to use Space Marine stuff, best part about that - you could easily convert your marine models to Chaos

I don't understand - the Fallen come from the HH directly, not post-Heresy. Why would they get to have normal SM stuff and a recently turned force (Red Corsairs) wouldn't?

A Chaos-Deathwatch would be a good idea of what the Fallen could act like. Can't say I'm over keen on the idea of them being able to loot things on the battlefield (why can't anyone else do that?) or have 1 man troops choices (that could be incredibly broken in terms of CP).

Realistically, I'm not really sure what niche they could fill, but Kill Teams sounds like the best choice.

Pro's

Cypher is cool
New options for Chaos

Cons - and its a big one

Yet another Marine codex - really?

Likely by the end of the Year we will have for chaos alone - Chaos Marines, Emps children, World eaters, Deathguard, and Thousands Sons and that's without any other Chaos Marine codexes suddenly appearing.

Just do it in White Dwarf if its really necessary to tweak the Fallen - which it is.

I've been holding onto a couple boxes of Dark Angels in the hope this will come someday. I have a hard time believing this will come soon, but... the lore door is certainly open.

I would rather GW finsihed all the Codex's for existing armies and fixed the broken ones before launching into yet more look shiney new Codex with broken stuff that puts all old Codex's at a disadvantage.

They have probably at least a years worth of work or more to be getting on with without delving into codex dark angels but chaos, but not chaos, but not loyalist. You could call it codex did you just assume my allegiance? Lore wise its nice but table top wise its just more marines which everyone complains are too common.

This is a book that doesn't need to exist.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
How would the Fallen even differentiate themselves as an army? It'd just be Codex: Even Darker Angels. Not a fan of this idea.

How does Dark Angels even differentiate itself from Space Marines? It is just Codex: Green Space Knights

Keen on Codex even darker angels. Tbh think they missed a trick not having this as an alternative take in Codex Dark Angels. Cant really see why Dark Angels allied with Chaos is going to break the meta.

Hard to see it getting the nod now though. Maybe next year.

So, if Daemons saved Luther and he’s been building an army (worthy or Mordor? ) and it is now potentially at the scale of a full sized Crusade Legion, where has he got all the equipment from?

Because of this, I can’t see there being any reasonable explanation, other than it will basically be a new Chaos Legion, using the same units and wargear currently available to the others. I also highly doubt any “old” Dark Angels only units will be ported over, simply because of the lack of pre-heresy resources and the war the Angels have been prosecuting against them.

Should they become a more fleshed out Chaos Legion? I think so. Should they get their own codex etc, no. I just don’t think that there will be enough difference between what they could possibly have when compared to the normal Legions.

In my mind, they’d get the Fallen unit, maybe 1 other “specialist” unit and a couple of special character HQs, then be a standard Legion. Throw in a couple of stratagems, relics and warlord traits (maybe dip slightly into the DA psychic powers) and that would be it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyel wrote:
Keen on Codex even darker angels. Tbh think they missed a trick not having this as an alternative take in Codex Dark Angels. Cant really see why Dark Angels allied with Chaos is going to break the meta.

Hard to see it getting the nod now though. Maybe next year.

I don’t think anyone has suggested it will break the meta, as, you’d likely just end up taking a named character, daemon princes and a load of cultists anyway….

Right now, the Fallen are a storyline waiting to be expanded on and potentially heralds the return of the Lion, but, I’m struggling to see how they can match something like the Deathguard or Thousand Sons codices – and until they can do that, they should keep away from a codex release.

Ice_can wrote:
I would rather GW finsihed all the Codex's for existing armies and fixed the broken ones before launching into yet more look shiney new Codex with broken stuff that puts all old Codex's at a disadvantage.

They have probably at least a years worth of work or more to be getting on with without delving into codex dark angels but chaos, but not chaos, but not loyalist. You could call it codex did you just assume my allegiance? Lore wise its nice but table top wise its just more marines which everyone complains are too common.

A lot of people think like that. But the thing is, when GW recently came out with at brand new codex of manly dudes in gold armour, those models quickly started selling at an obscene rate. People wants new and shiny stuff more than they want the old stuff fixed.

pismakron wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
I would rather GW finsihed all the Codex's for existing armies and fixed the broken ones before launching into yet more look shiney new Codex with broken stuff that puts all old Codex's at a disadvantage.

They have probably at least a years worth of work or more to be getting on with without delving into codex dark angels but chaos, but not chaos, but not loyalist. You could call it codex did you just assume my allegiance? Lore wise its nice but table top wise its just more marines which everyone complains are too common.

A lot of people think like that. But the thing is, when GW recently came out with at brand new codex of manly dudes in gold armour, those models quickly started selling at an obscene rate. People wants new and shiny stuff more than they want the old stuff fixed.

Which incidentally doesn't exactly hurt GW'S bottom line, I get it from a business perspective, but as a player it annoys me that its starting to feel like chase the new hotness pay to win every 3-4 months edition.

Ice_can wrote:

pismakron wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
I would rather GW finsihed all the Codex's for existing armies and fixed the broken ones before launching into yet more look shiney new Codex with broken stuff that puts all old Codex's at a disadvantage.

They have probably at least a years worth of work or more to be getting on with without delving into codex dark angels but chaos, but not chaos, but not loyalist. You could call it codex did you just assume my allegiance? Lore wise its nice but table top wise its just more marines which everyone complains are too common.

A lot of people think like that. But the thing is, when GW recently came out with at brand new codex of manly dudes in gold armour, those models quickly started selling at an obscene rate. People wants new and shiny stuff more than they want the old stuff fixed.

Which incidentally doesn't exactly hurt GW'S bottom line, I get it from a business perspective, but as a player it annoys me that its starting to feel like chase the new hotness pay to win every 3-4 months edition.

Call of Duty 7: Warhammer 40k

Maybe Fallen will be a GSC style link between Chaos and Dark Angels. Just as you can have both Imperial Guard and Tyranids in the same Cult army, supposedly you could have both Chaos and a Dark Angel detachment in a Fallen army. Maybe you could even have both the Lion, Cypher and, say, Abbadon in the same army.

Ignoring if Fallen will/will not be something the game "needs", I wouldn't be surprised if they come. Maybe as an "Unaligned" faction (neither Imperium, nor Chaos, nor Xenos) so they can keep the mystique up (and make use of that keyword since it exists apparently in the Inquisition's future proofed rules) in conjunction with the return of the Lion.

Basically I'd expect some kind of campaign to come out that gives us the Lion and the Fallen.

Ice_can wrote:

pismakron wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
I would rather GW finsihed all the Codex's for existing armies and fixed the broken ones before launching into yet more look shiney new Codex with broken stuff that puts all old Codex's at a disadvantage.

They have probably at least a years worth of work or more to be getting on with without delving into codex dark angels but chaos, but not chaos, but not loyalist. You could call it codex did you just assume my allegiance? Lore wise its nice but table top wise its just more marines which everyone complains are too common.

A lot of people think like that. But the thing is, when GW recently came out with at brand new codex of manly dudes in gold armour, those models quickly started selling at an obscene rate. People wants new and shiny stuff more than they want the old stuff fixed.

Which incidentally doesn't exactly hurt GW'S bottom line, I get it from a business perspective, but as a player it annoys me that its starting to feel like chase the new hotness pay to win every 3-4 months edition.

right because we all know Custodes are currently the dominant army in the game... ohh wait they're not, they're a niche army that is fun to play but are not widely regarded as uber. it's pretty obvious when just about every custodes list is forced to lean on a guard detachment.

In fact, thinking back to every new army since I started playing 40k, admech, Imperial Knights, GSC, Death watch, 1k sons, Death Guard Custodes, Harliquins (not including Ynnari just yet as they're in an odd place) none of these Armies have been partiuclarly strong. IKs had their issue with being all super heavy vehicles yes, but by and large none of these armies where the "new hotness broken OP" 6th and 7th edition where dominated by old standbys such as Tau. Eldar, Space Marines, 8th edition? Eldar and Imperial Guard.

I'd argue new factions, with a smaller scope etc are more apt to be balanced then the large factions with a hugly bloated amount of models and rules

We really. Really don't need more factions right now.

Particularly because you can make a Fallen Army with either Space Marines or Chaos Space marines. The rules are right there. They're right there!!

You can even do it with both in every gameplay mode but matched and you don't need GW to print a frikken codex just so you can take a SM/CSM Fallen list to the GT. Srsly.

I had thought Fallen wound have gotten an Infiltrate deployment and a Shunt move to teleport away during battle, since they appear randomly, and Chaos has Bamf'd them away during the Destruction of Caliban.

BrianDavion wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

pismakron wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
I would rather GW finsihed all the Codex's for existing armies and fixed the broken ones before launching into yet more look shiney new Codex with broken stuff that puts all old Codex's at a disadvantage.

They have probably at least a years worth of work or more to be getting on with without delving into codex dark angels but chaos, but not chaos, but not loyalist. You could call it codex did you just assume my allegiance? Lore wise its nice but table top wise its just more marines which everyone complains are too common.

A lot of people think like that. But the thing is, when GW recently came out with at brand new codex of manly dudes in gold armour, those models quickly started selling at an obscene rate. People wants new and shiny stuff more than they want the old stuff fixed.

Which incidentally doesn't exactly hurt GW'S bottom line, I get it from a business perspective, but as a player it annoys me that its starting to feel like chase the new hotness pay to win every 3-4 months edition.

right because we all know Custodes are currently the dominant army in the game... ohh wait they're not, they're a niche army that is fun to play but are not widely regarded as uber. it's pretty obvious when just about every custodes list is forced to lean on a guard detachment.

In fact, thinking back to every new army since I started playing 40k, admech, Imperial Knights, GSC, Death watch, 1k sons, Death Guard Custodes, Harliquins (not including Ynnari just yet as they're in an odd place) none of these Armies have been partiuclarly strong. IKs had their issue with being all super heavy vehicles yes, but by and large none of these armies where the "new hotness broken OP" 6th and 7th edition where dominated by old standbys such as Tau. Eldar, Space Marines, 8th edition? Eldar and Imperial Guard.

I'd argue new factions, with a smaller scope etc are more apt to be balanced then the large factions with a hugly bloated amount of models and rules

I would give you your point if it wasn't that most people are maintaining the bases of their soup lists and just cherry picking custodes shield captain on jetbikes in like they have done with preceding releases as no one does a CP battery like guard.

I'm not suggesting that they don't add new stuff, just maybe would be nice if they would finish the half launch of eight before the new shiny is dropped.

Something similar to Summoning or Legion of the Damned but for Chaos.

 Dovis wrote:
This year already saw a new faction introduced, in the form of Adeptus Custodes, so this might give more hope for people waiting for other factions as well, namely Sisters in plastic or them plus the Inquisition in a single Codex


However after reading the Dark Angels codex, I saw something more mentioned, multiple times:


Luther being saved by Daemons and gathering strength, gathering his own army and collecting a chapter worth of strength under his banner, uniting the fallen under his command.


As someone torn between Chaos and the Imperium, this would be my one of my favorite factions, as I like most things about the dark angels, except for them being over the top moody, with a stick up their ass at all times. Would like the same individuality and focus, but with more freedom and that's where Chaos comes in, Chaos is freedom!

More Importantly, codex also hints new units, the "Inevitable introduction of Primaris Marines into the Deathwing" - what does that mean? Steroid bros are getting an even more armored look and meat in the form of Primaris Deathwing Knights and Terinators


AND EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY, this would be a legit reason for Lion El Johnson to finally stretch his arms after a good long sleep

so I think if this happened it would be way down the line, as a slaanesh and (mostly) khorne chaos faction is more likely.

Lion El'Johnson, primarch of the fallen?

I like Dark Angels. I have a stupid number of points of them. I also really like Fallen and Cypher.

But no, just no. Maybe after Xenos. And Inquisition. And Sisters. And Grey Knights getting a second run Codex. And, like, maybe another Xenos army of some sort.

This should not even be on the road map until everyone else gets a Codex. Literally everyone else.

Damn, I would love to see how GW would even start to attempt to make another "power armor +1" codex.

How many do we NEEEEED?

Oh, and Squats. Not until after Squats too.

 Marmatag wrote:
Lion El'Johnson, primarch of the fallen?

and vindication that the Fallen were really the loyalists all along?

A Fallen codex would be pretty cool. The only problem I see is that Alpha Legion is already a super shadowy army so you'd need to do something to really differentiate them.