Who can go toe to toe with the primarchs

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**ballzonya**

SO what 40k character in the fluff can go toe to toe with the Primarchs or at least come close to it. I have a felling abbadon can kill at least one of them maybe in combat, possibly logar.

**Eihnlazer**

Not much tbh.

Greater Chaos demons can beat one if they get the drop on them.

Generally speaking you would only be able to take out a Primarch by swarming him till he gets exhausted or tricking/backstabbing them.

**AdmiralHalsey**

Blood Angels Captain with Thunderhammer and Stormshield can apparently do it just fine.

**Eihnlazer**

Not in the fluff, not even close.

**amanita**

A hierophant?

**ballzonya**

so not even abbadon? hes a beast

**Lum**

The Beast (huge old Ork) apparently had a good fisticuffs with Vulkan, so I guess if Ghazkull continues to eat his veggies he just might grow into a adversary for the primarchs.

**Nerak**

Kaldor Draigo

**Elbows**

In the fluff? An Avatar of Khaine would be up there, but...definitely never in game-terms.

**ballzonya**

yeah Strickly in the fluff. There are no non primarchs that can go one on one and win, or at least come close. wasnt lucious feared for his sword mastery.

**davou**

Lum wrote:
The Beast (huge old Ork) apparently had a good fisticuffs with Vulkan, so I guess if Ghazkull continues to eat his veggies he just might grow into a adversary for the primarchs.

IMO ghazzy is meant to be a primeork already; in the art he's gotta be at least 20 feet tall. The guardsmen care barely reach his knee in depictions. I really hope he gets rules close to primarch level in the next codex.

https://1d4chan.org/images/thumb/3/33/GHAZGHKULLVSDAHIVE.jpg/350px-GHAZGHKULLVSDAHIVE.jpg

**Nerak**

The Emperor, the Custodes Captain (had apparently won sparring matches vs primarchs), probably one of the old C'tans, as I mentioned above Kaldor Draigo (it's kind of his schtick), maybe a phoenix lord like Maugan Ra

**Galas**

ballzonya wrote:
SO what 40k character in the fluff can go toe to toe with the Primarchs or at least come close to it. I have a felling abbadon can kill at least one of them maybe in combat, possibly logar.

Things like the Primorks of The Beast series could go toe to toe with a Primarch. Things like Greater Daemons, Avatars of Khaine, C'tan Shards, etc... can too. Normally theyll lose because Primarchs are the protagonists of those histories but they can put a fight. Didn't Ann'grathar broke the back of Sanguinius? And then Sanguinius broke his back in return in their next fight.

**Elbows**

While I think fluff-wise the Phoenix Lords would be a bit better than they are on the tabletop, I don't get a Primarch level feeling from them (other than mastering their particular skill set at an above-Primarch level).

Considering (SPOILER) the one Phoenix Lord in a certain novel gets killed by a slow swinging dreadnought power fist...I don't think they're anything as powerful as a Primarch. I do think that they could easily out-do a Primarch in their dedicated discipline though.

**Grimgold**

ballzonya wrote:
so not even abbadon? hes a beast

Abaddon killed the clone of horus, and that was before he was the mortal champion of the ruinous powers. So if any Space marine could do it, it's probably him.

**ballzonya**

if he did that then surely he can beat the weakest primarch logar?

**pm713**

Elbows wrote:
While I think fluff-wise the Phoenix Lords would be a bit better than they are on the tabletop, I don't get a Primarch level feeling from them (other than mastering their particular skill set at an above-Primarch level).

Considering (SPOILER) the one Phoenix Lord in a certain novel gets killed by a slow swinging dreadnought power fist...I don't think they're anything as powerful as a Primarch. I do think that they could easily out-do a Primarch in their dedicated discipline though.

Wasn't that more of a sacrifice to save someone else than actually losing a fight?

While Phoenix Lords are more important than Primarchs to their people imo they're much more about cultural change than Primarchs so they probably would lose fights.

**Elbows**

I don't remember precisely, but it seemed like a really lame way to move him on in the story. Felt rushed and kind of embarrasing.

**vaklor4**

Sly Marbo, obviously. Why is this even a thread?

**NoiseMarine with Tinnitus**

Elbows wrote:
In the fluff? An Avatar of Khaine would be up there, but...definitely never in game-terms.

Fulgrim pulverised one with his bare hands. Albeit, Fulgrim doesn't have 40K stats atm.

**Elbows**

Well, story-wise it's obvious that a Primarch will beat anything in the 40K universe. I mean in an unbiased, not-writing-Space-Marine-novels version of the universe.

**jhe90**

Unless your on a Valadors level of ability, and power. Your not a a threat to a primarch.

So greater deamons, Gazzy, beast, your looking at massive, extremely skilled or ainciant warriors.

**HuskyWarhammer**

Eldrad would give them a run for their money. He was the one who originally bested Abbadon, in addition to the whole "seeing the future" bit.

**Yarium**

The Emperor.

Also, plot weapons, but only barely.

**Dr. Mills**

Constantin Valdor was sparring with a pre chaos corrupted Hours, and and even though Hours won, the he said "It was the toughest fight of my life"

So, in fluff Valdor can at least go one on one for a short period.

**Table**

There is a big difference between demon primarchs and loyalist primarchs. The demon ones are more powerful in combat while the loyalist ones (if girly man) is an indication will most likely be better at buffing.

While Abby did kill a clone of horus, keep in mind that it was not a chaos infused clone (demon primarch). I dont think he could even stand up to Magnus in close combat (the weakest of the demon primarchs in close combat aside from Lorgar) let alone survive Magnus's fluff smite bombs.

I have not read any recent lore so I cannot speak to Mortys fluff but in WoM they have Magnus destroying Storm Ravens in one smite and wiping out whole squads with one attack.

Unless Wrath of Magnus was OTT then I can safely say a demon primarch can beat even greater demons easily. Which would make sense fluff wise since they are their gods semi mortal champions.

**AdmiralHalsey**

If you really want a fluff answer then the correct answer is -

One Deathstrike Missile.

**Elbows**

^Or...any titan in the game.

Or a Baneblade cannon round, etc. There are friggin' heaps of things which "should" kill a Primarch.

**Tibs Ironblood**

davou wrote:
Lum wrote:
The Beast (huge old Ork) apparently had a good fisticuffs with Vulkan, so I guess if Ghazkull continues to eat his veggies he just might grow into a adversary for the primarchs.

IMO ghazzy is meant to be a primeork already; in the art he's gotta be at least 20 feet tall. The guardsmen care barely reach his knee in depictions. I really hope he gets rules close to primarch level in the next codex.

https://1d4chan.org/images/thumb/3/33/GHAZGHKULLVSDAHIVE.jpg/350px-GHAZGHKULLVSDAHIVE.jpg

And now I am reminded of how badly I want an updated Ghazzy model.

**Arachnofiend**

Elbows wrote:
^Or...any titan in the game. Or a Baneblade cannon round, etc. There are friggin' heaps of things which "should" kill a Primarch.

In his primarch book Magnus the Red takes a baneblade to the face and survives. It REALLY feths him up but he does live through it.