Switch Theme:

What changes do you expect to see with the "Big FAQ" coming in March?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior





West Virginia

I know there is already a thread about conscripts, but what are some of the other changes you believe will be arriving in this FAQ? Who will be better? Who will be worse?
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






Ork nerf. Boyz now 100pts each, 7+ save and back to T3. Also leadership 1.

But Ork bikes get huge mega buff all while Ork bike models on the store go up tp £90 per bike.
   
Made in au
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





I'm hoping 2w models such as Terminators and Bikers are addressed and given a points reduction. Far too much saturation with 2+ damage weapons that makes any 'elite' multiwound model feel overpriced

"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.

To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle


5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 |  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Northridge, CA

 NurglesR0T wrote:
I'm hoping 2w models such as Terminators and Bikers are addressed and given a points reduction. Far too much saturation with 2+ damage weapons that makes any 'elite' multiwound model feel overpriced
fething this. I want to use my Chaos Bikes again and know they are worth their points. CA dropped their points slightly but they either need a further points drop or some more equipment options. Let me give them all Power Axes or something!

Also, drop the points on all Khorne Daemons (except maybe Bloodletters). Drop the points on the Juggernaut of Khorne. Drop the points on Kharn SLIGHTLY, or give him a +1 movement. Hell, make all close combat units SLIGHTLY faster so they are more threatening.
   
Made in is
Angered Reaver Arena Champion





 NurglesR0T wrote:
I'm hoping 2w models such as Terminators and Bikers are addressed and given a points reduction. Far too much saturation with 2+ damage weapons that makes any 'elite' multiwound model feel overpriced


I feel like Bikers and Terminators should be base 3 wounds, not 2 wounds, because of the reasons you mentioned. I don't think a point reduction is enough as it just means more bodies on the floor which doesn't mean much when there are many multi-wound weapons in the game already.

Also, 3 wounds would mean that you would need 2 x 2 wound weapons to kill the model which means 1 lost wound that doesn't go anywhere. That would address vulnerability of elite units. This would also address potential plasma spam(or equivalent guns) and give Flamers and meltas a reason to be in the game.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Other than the obvious guardsmen and dark reapers, I wouldn't be surprised to see obliterators go up in price a bit. They pretty seriously outclass the other options CSM have in both damage and practicality, and the gap only widens when you consider synergy with other units.
   
Made in au
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





 Eldarsif wrote:
 NurglesR0T wrote:
I'm hoping 2w models such as Terminators and Bikers are addressed and given a points reduction. Far too much saturation with 2+ damage weapons that makes any 'elite' multiwound model feel overpriced


I feel like Bikers and Terminators should be base 3 wounds, not 2 wounds, because of the reasons you mentioned. I don't think a point reduction is enough as it just means more bodies on the floor which doesn't mean much when there are many multi-wound weapons in the game already.

Also, 3 wounds would mean that you would need 2 x 2 wound weapons to kill the model which means 1 lost wound that doesn't go anywhere. That would address vulnerability of elite units. This would also address potential plasma spam(or equivalent guns) and give Flamers and meltas a reason to be in the game.


I'd be happy with that as an alternative too.

"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.

To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle


5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 |  
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
I know there is already a thread about conscripts, but what are some of the other changes you believe will be arriving in this FAQ? Who will be better? Who will be worse?

IG plasma and melta costs being tweaked. Maybe not an outright switch but melta is pointless at 12/17 and plasma is a no brainer at 7/13 the way they work now. I would expect something like melta going to at least 10-15 with plasma being the same, or worst case scenario, plasma being brought up to melta prices.

I would also expect to see changes to how indirect fire works, given I just picked up a manticore and am super stoked to try it My guess would be a -1 penalty when firing at units you can't see, but who knows what GW may try. Usually any time I have a unit I like become competitive gets nerfed so I expect to see artillery get some sort of nerf.

Guardsmen going up to 5ppm wouldn't be too bad but it is annoying to feel like I'm being punished for space marine players abusing my codex I put odds of it happening at 50/50.

Only other thing I can think of is some sort of penalty for soup. As it sits there are no downsides and it really hurts non eldar xenos armies. I wouldn't be surprised to see command points locked to the codex that generates them (so ig commanders can't be used to generate cp's for admech/space Marines) and perhaps a rule where the warlord must be part of your largest detachment, so people can't take a token ig detachment just to generate cp's.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





If they tweak the plasma/melta situation then it'll be for all Imperium/Chaos armies, not just IG. Plasma being too good and melta having no place is a problem for everyone.
   
Made in au
Stalwart Tribune





Kataphoron destroyers/breachers going down in price and getting an extra wound would be good. Admech getting a global rule that lets them use other armies' transports with normal sized infantry needing 1 space, kataphorons needing 2, TPDs needing 3 and cawl needing 4 would be good as well.
   
Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut





I wouldn't expect anything in terms of making "more viable", i suspect that that is something we will only see with the next chapter approved. They will probably use this FAQ to just reign in some of the worst offenders, so:

- Dark reaper cost increase and/or smaller unit size
- Shining spears smaller unit size
- Infantry squad cost increase
- Obliterator's weapons becoming Heavy
- Mortarion something
- Maybe Dark Talon cost increase
- Maybe flyrant cost increase

Apart from that, beta rules will become official and we will be given a new set of beta rules to test for September.
   
Made in au
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





Spoletta wrote:
I wouldn't expect anything in terms of making "more viable", i suspect that that is something we will only see with the next chapter approved. They will probably use this FAQ to just reign in some of the worst offenders, so:

- Dark reaper cost increase and/or smaller unit size
- Shining spears smaller unit size
- Infantry squad cost increase
- Obliterator's weapons becoming Heavy
- Mortarion something
- Maybe Dark Talon cost increase
- Maybe flyrant cost increase

Apart from that, beta rules will become official and we will be given a new set of beta rules to test for September.


What's wrong with Mortarion? He's already costed high enough to not be competitive and CD Stratagem nerf quickly put a stop to abusive mechanics with him.

Agreed with the beta rules, actually forgot about them. Could see them becoming official errata, would make sense. Hopefully the next beta rules include more fleshed out terrain rules, Hull Down for vehicles again would be a welcome change.


"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.

To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle


5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 |  
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




What I EXPECT as opposed to what I WANT?

-Fire Raptor cost increase.
-Manticore cost increase.
-Dark Reaper tweak or cost increase.
-Infantry cost increase.
-Adjustment to Grand Strategist.

Anything else from me is pure guesswork with no evidentiary basis.
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




Adjusting Fire Raptor points after lowering them in December for absolutely no reason would be hilarious. I expect GW to do so.
   
Made in ca
Frenzied Berserker Terminator





Canada

What changes do I expect will come with the FAQ?

A price tag!

Badum-tiss!



Gets along better with animals... Go figure. 
   
Made in au
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





 darkcloak wrote:
What changes do I expect will come with the FAQ?

A price tag!

Badum-tiss!


No idea what it does, but have an Exalt good sir

"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.

To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle


5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 |  
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

From Warhammer Community:

2: Big, Twice-a-year FAQs
Major game-wide questions will be answered on a biannual basis each March and September when a wider set of FAQ updates will be released. These will be focused on anything that might emerge as more codexes, and thus more unusual interactions, make their way into the game and will address issues across multiple factions and publications. We’ll also use these to address balance issues in the game, so these might include a few changes to rules for overly powerful, or underrepresented units.

I wouldn't expect to see many points adjustments (if any at all) until Chapter Approved 2018 is released at the end of the year.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




We’ll also use these to address balance issues in the game, so these might include a few changes to rules for overly powerful, or underrepresented units.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Gig Harbor, WA

I’m curious if all the CA point changes will come in errata.
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran





I hope and expect them to fix the Deathstrike.

It was absolute garbage in the Index, and since they didn't change a thing its absolute garbage in the Codex as well.

5500 pts
6500 pts
7000 pts
9000 pts
13.000 pts
 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

meleti wrote:
We’ll also use these to address balance issues in the game, so these might include a few changes to rules for overly powerful, or underrepresented units.

Yes? Rules, not points.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

Has it ever been good?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





 Ghaz wrote:
meleti wrote:
We’ll also use these to address balance issues in the game, so these might include a few changes to rules for overly powerful, or underrepresented units.

Yes? Rules, not points.

Are the points cost of a unit not part of its rules?
   
Made in au
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





The only correct answer at this stage is "maybe"

Mostly I'd expect these main FAQs to contain mostly clarification etc. Actual rule changes to a datasheet and points adjustments would be quite selective and saved for the Annual Chapter Approved.

Who knows though, it might. They did mention that they would address OP/Trash units so they are probably gathering data from the recent tournaments on what lists contained and go from there.

"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.

To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle


5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 |  
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

The same result as the last round, incompetent points adjustments that are barely thought out, FAQ's for questions not asked, no FAQ for things needed
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

I expect the nerf bat to swong at some things (negative to hit) and then the units that benefitted from it, after being brought in line by the nerf, to get a price hike on CA2018

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator




The Void

I'm hoping to see some help for the Marine statline in general. It doesn't help much to tweak individual units when pretty much every base MeQ is lackluster unless it has a huge number of special rules. Str 4, T4, 3+, 1A, and Str 4 shooting models that cost in the low to mid teens in points are pretty much never worth using across the board. This is a huge problem, because it covers the majority of Marine infantry.

Tac Marines, Assault Marines, Bikers, Chaos Marines, Raptors, etc are all not worth using. We see that marines and Chaos alike are using swarm +elites and heavies for their armies, usually as part of a soup list. More elite versions of these units like Cult Marines are generally a bit better off, but you still cannot make the core of your army based around them and end up with enough models on the board to be useful.

The MeQ statline has depreciated since previous editions due to the changes in AP and offensive power. A 3+ armor save is just not what it used to be in the new AP system. And on top of that, they got shafted in that many armies weapons moved to an equivalent AP in the new system, but basic bolters did not. They used to be AP 5, which ignored 5+ and 6+ saves, meaning basic bolter fire was an effective anti hoard weapon. Now they are AP 0, which means they lost a significant amount of offensive power against common units like guardsmen and boyz. Aura stacking helps bring their firepower level back, but other armies also got that.

I would argue that the basic MeQ statline is the hardest hit by a large amount of 8th's changes. To summarize:

1) AP changes made 3+ less strong

2) Bolters effectively losing AP made them so inefficient they are barely worth rolling

3) Lack of ability to lock foes in combat hurt marine units like assault marines that are proportionally lower damage but higher survivability compared to other melee units

4) Changes to template and blast weapons hit marines harder than other armies because they relied on them more to cover more army roles.

5) The combination of bolters becoming proportionally weaker and flamers/frag missiles becoming weaker, less reliable, and more expensive totally destroyed the ability to normal marine units to provide anti-swarm.

6) The new vehicle wound system hits marines hardest because they relied on low shot high damage weapons like Meltas for their anti tank. Meltas have gone up in price, and lost their ability to 1 shot vehicles, which has hugely decreased the potential of normal marine infantry to counter armor.

7) Power fist changes have hurt marines more than other races, as the power fist sergeant was often half of a squads melee damage output, a solid tank/monster deterrent, and the majority of an army's anti-character power. I'm not sad that this changed because it was silly, but it's still left them overall weaker.

8) In the past, marine infantry relied on a good armor save to out attrition their opponents. But now the offensive power of everyone has increased considerably, so they've lost their ability to take in damage without getting wiped out early. The changes to cover have also hurt them, but not necessarily more than other races.

9) The loss of mechanized lists due to transport changes has hurt too. You can no longer move, disembark, and shoot, which was a major trick of Tacs and CSM. And even if you could, you wouldn't want to as you no longer have the durability to receive a charge and whittle down a unit, or hold until reinforcements come. And drop pods can no longer come in close enough for short range melta shots, and as mentioned above those aren't what they used to be. And transports now cost an arm and a leg.

10) Loss of Pistol+bolter+ccw on many marine units (especially CSM)

11) They did get a couple points cheaper overall, but it's really not enough to help.

Even elite marines units just aren't that great. Berzerkers may be the exception because their special rule and weapons are so phenomenal. But consider the other cult troops: Plague marines give you a lot for their points, but their firepower is so low that it just doesn't matter. So we see poxwalker spam instead. Noise marines are cool and also have some nasty rules and guns, but the points add up really fast. If you try to build an army using more than a couple 5 man objective holding squads, you just won't have enough other stuff. And they die easily. And Rubrics, even with their new powers, just don't have enough firepower. And even with All is Dust, they are proportionally less survivable than most swarm infantry, point for point. These units are not bad in a vacuum (except maybe rubrics), and seem like what we should be forming our armies around. But it just doesn't work.

Primaris marines are more on the right track. If all MeQs had just been given that statline, things would be much different (except plasma spam would still pwn them.) The extra melee attack, extra ap point on bolt weapons, and extra wound really help. But we still don't see armies of primaris the way we saw armies of regular MeQs back in, say, 5th (my main point of comparison as I played it most.) Because even the extra stats at only a few extra points per model doesn't make the units worth using over swarm units + elites and heavy support. The exception may be Blood Angels, because they can stack enough buffs to make Primaris versatile, durable, and efficient in both shooting and melee.

Note I'm not saying that Marines and Chaos are weak overall. Their elite and soup lists are doing fine. But the standard marine infantry has gotten shafted by this edition and it needs help. But there's no easy fix either because the problems go beyond a small points change. It's the entire design philosophy of 8th. And it effect so many units that aren't united by keywords or common names that it'd be hard to change that many overall.

Some combination of the following would help, applied to everyone or only to marines (to represent their greater skill, bigger weapons, etc). I'm trying to keep away from all out statline changes.

A) Move all bolter weapons an AP lower for marines. Standard becomes AP -1, intercessor one becomes -2, heavy bolter -2, etc. This will also help their vehicles out. But it won't break currently good units like assault cannon razorbacks.

B) Make flamer/other former template weapons more reliable. Instead of d6 shots, let them be 3+d3, or an amount based on the size of the attacking unit.

C) Increase the power of pretty much all Chapter traits except Blood Angels and Death Guard to help infantry.

D) Bring back Bolter+Bolt Pistol+CCW for Tacs and CSM and their elite variants

E) Give Jump Pack troops the ability to lock enemies in close combat, or perhaps follow them if they fall back (can be based on leadership check.)

F) Award extra CP for detachments of basic MeQs

All that wishlisting aside, I doubt they'll touch this. Which means this is the edition of Xenos and Soup!

Always 1 on the crazed roll. 
   
Made in ca
Frenzied Berserker Terminator





Canada

 Crazyterran wrote:
I expect the nerf bat to swong at some things (negative to hit) and then the units that benefitted from it, after being brought in line by the nerf, to get a price hike on CA2018


Dark Reaperz gon get swongged!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 NurglesR0T wrote:
 darkcloak wrote:
What changes do I expect will come with the FAQ?

A price tag!

Badum-tiss!


No idea what it does, but have an Exalt good sir


Exalt button turns a regular broken marine into a swell new Primaris Marine.

: that's why there is so many.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/21 07:27:25




Gets along better with animals... Go figure. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I would also expect to see changes to how indirect fire works, given I just picked up a manticore and am super stoked to try it My guess would be a -1 penalty when firing at units you can't see, but who knows what GW may try. Usually any time I have a unit I like become competitive gets nerfed so I expect to see artillery get some sort of nerf.


Are we still pretending manticores are competitive? When will this meme end? Basilisks are better against almost every target and STILL you practically never see them. In fact, vehicles in general are a rare sight unless you're eldar. Imperial armored companies are fluffy and non competitive and for some reason you think they should be driven into the dirt even more?

We need to encourage vehicles, not discourage them.
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






I think we'll see largely rules clarifications and a few points adjustments/rules changes to a few units, namely -

Infantry
Commissars
Dark Reapers
Shining Spears
"Big kits" - Magnus, Morty, Celestine, Girlyman etc
Various weapons across the board

I don't think there'll be much, if they put too much in they'll slap a price tag on it and call it "pre Chapter approved, approved".
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: