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Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






So I was doing some calculations on the damage output of my units versus artillery for my army that im playing this week, and I ran into a bit of a question that left me puzzled on how to solve it.

My Skull Cannons for this Khorne Daemon 2000 point list (40k) deal on average 6 damage between the three of them against other artillery. This is about the same damage output as my Daemon Prince w/ wings and an axe (6-9), but then it sort of let me stumped.

What is the value of attacking from range? Even though my Daemon Prince can on average deal higher damage, will it for all intents and purposes actually deal on par to less damage than the skull cannons over the course of the game? Should I take into account the fact that overwatch can kill some of my bloodletters, and that a few will get killed while they walk up? (This is a friendly game in case you're curious, not about to bust out 'Letter Bomb on a non-competitive table.)
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight







The value of range is just that, you can reach out and touch what you want and not deal with bs in between like bubble wrap, terrain, or being at the mercy of random distance charges.

You're asking if the DP will do more damage over the course of the game. But what you really need to be asking is "Will my DP be able to go where I want him" because like I said you actually have to worry about positioning with melee. It doesn't matter if your DP does 9 wounds in melee to chaff infantry per turn, when those Cannons can be hitting the valuable stuff from T1.

But you have to decide if paying for 3 Cannons is worth the same potential damage output of a DP. IIRC a DP and Cannon is about the same without wargear.

 SHUPPET wrote:

wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
 
   
Made in gb
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

Yep, shooting is better than melee. In other breaking news, 40k isn't balanced, who knew?

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

If you want a really back of the napkin calculation on ranged vs melee, Take 24" then divide that by the units speed, and thats how many rounds it will take him to get into CC. You then figure out the ratio of being in CC to being on the way to CC and multiply the damage done by that.

So for instance if you are expecting to do 6 DPR on a unit with a 12" move and only melee attacks, you figure two rounds getting into combat and 4 rounds in combat. so he'll spend 2/3 of his time in combat (assuming he survives), so you'll get on average 2/3 of his DPR or 4.

If the unit can deep strike, I'd assume at least a round and a half out of action, because you'll likely not deep strike him first turn, and whenever you bring him in he'll likely he'll fail the charge. Do If I were deep striking the demon prince as above would be an average DPR of 4.5.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/23 02:37:05


Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




This isn't really a question that can be answered by mathammer. There are other factors.

- The Prince doesn't just deal damage, he has an aura that increases the damage of nearby units.
-The added value to melee is the potential to tie other units up and prevent them from shooting.
- The range factor suggests that the cannons will get at least one extra round of shooting in over the Prince.
- However since your opponent has artillery, it's reasonable to assume they can shoot your cannons back while the Prince should be relatively safe.
- If you have insufficient bubble wrap to protect your Prince, he will die early.
- If your opponent has deep strikers, they can potentially tie up your cannons T1 if you have insufficient bubble wrap.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






I don't think you can really mathhammer range into some sort of number that's comparable to melee.

Getting into close combat also has the utility of locking down shooting units and being able to attack characters a lot easier.
Shooting, on the other hand gets to pick non-character targets freely and are usually not in range for some portion of your opponent's army.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
 
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