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So, there is a lot of discussion about units that are over-priced, under-priced etc. Then there was some talk about the new FAQ coming out, and that some people were saying that there will not be point adjustments. That got me thinking, how would you change a unit to make it worth its current points. The only rule I would say is you can't make new rules out of nowhere, you really should stick with rules that exist somewhere in 40k already. Example, giving something "-1 to damage to a minimum of 1" already is a rule that exists, however, "all units within 6" get +2 to toughness" is not a rule that exists anywhere, so I would not suggest it. You may not agree that any of these units need improvement, and that is fine, but this thread is really to focus on what you would fix, not if certina units should be fixed (to which there are many many threads already) Anyway, here are a few units that I would fix.......

Terminators (All): I would either give them an extra wound, or "Glacial Plate: Terminator armor is really thick [fluff etc.], therefore reduce damage by 1 to a minimum of 1". I think this would make Terminators much better for their points, and stick with their fluff that they are hard to kill.

Scarab Terminators: If not the above, then 4+ invul, and "All is Dust" to work on damage 1 or 2. I think this change would really increase their ability to survive and make "All is Dust" useful on them. Also having a better invul save to me is very Tzeentch.

Rubric Marines: Basically the same as above, giving them a 4+ invul. I actually don't think that this would make them worth their current points (I would rather have them as now, but cheaper) but I would make them at least better.

Soulgrinder: This thing really should be St 8 and Tough 8, maybe like 2 or 3 more wounds and with a rule that it can move and shoot heavy weapons without penalty. I think for how big and bulky the model is these stats are not unwarranted, and being able to move and shoot would mitigate the 4+ BS.

Screamers of Tzeentch: I was toying with making the fly by mortal wounds easier to roll, but I don't think the game needs more mortal wound abilities/improvements. I would simply give them another wound (they have 2 now) and probably another attack (they have 3 now).

Lord of Change: I would give this guy a shooting attack of 4 st 6 -1 D2 shots. This is double the stats of pink horror shooting. I think if he had this he would be over priced by 20-30 points.

Land Raider: This is the one I think GW really missed the ball on. It is over 350 points with weapons, and goes down/ is shut down with almost no problem. This vehicle is celebrated as the most elite Space Marine vehicle, if not imperial non-titan vehicle and so I think it should be better. I would make it T9, as I think that better represents the 14/14/14 it had previously, and give it 2 -3 more wounds. Finally, I would give it the rule that baneblades etc. have which it could move out of combat and still shoot. This would make it basically the Space Marine super heavy and maybe I would even move it to Lord of War.

Great Unclean One-TOUGHNESS 8, PLEASE! I mean, come on! Greater Demon Of Nurgle, and it's the same Toughness as a Keeper of Secrets!

Nurglings-Toughness 3. I'm fine if they don't hit as hard as humans, but being squishier than them? Puh-lease. (Admittedly, they don't really need fixing, so I could see this with a points INCREASE, actually.)

Beasts of Nurgle-10" move or so. Why are they 6"?

I've found most units in 8e to be either mostly reasonable or so nonfunctional they need a complete overhaul, and overhauling most of them to justify their points value leads you bizarre places (e.g. Deathwatch Marines cannot exist as 19pt single-Wound MEQs, Terminators ought to be a little better and ~30pts rather than a lot better to justify their 40pt pricetag...).

And what's left over after that is a battery of really minor fixes (letting Cerastus Knights use the Questor Mechanicus keyword, dropping CTMs from the Forge World Eldar flyers in favour of +1 BS at all profiles, that sort of thing).

That said I would leave the Lynx at its current pricepoint for the pulsar variant if it had about double the shots it's got now (four S12 or 4d3/2d6 S7) and degraded from BS2+ instead of degrading from BS3+. That'd at least make it two more accurate Fire Prisms with 2/3rds the Wounds of two Fire Prisms and no combine-fire rerolls for a hundred more points instead of one Fire Prism with 50% more Wounds and no combine-fire rerolls for 250 more points.

Technically, a Toughness boosting aura is an existing rule. See: Haemonculi.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I've found most units in 8e to be either mostly reasonable or so nonfunctional they need a complete overhaul, and overhauling most of them to justify their points value leads you bizarre places (e.g. Deathwatch Marines cannot exist as 19pt single-Wound MEQs, Terminators ought to be a little better and ~30pts rather than a lot better to justify their 40pt pricetag...).

Those are kind of my feelings as well. Most of the units I've tried out in 8th have either felt close enough to a correct price to be reasonable or else so fundamentally unusable/redundant that a points change wouldn't really do it. That said...

* The falcon lacks a niche. I'd like to see it gain deepstrike. Sure, you can currently cloud strike it, but you have little reason to do so when you can cloudstrike a wave serpent instead. Giving the falcon deepstrike frees up a few CP and secures it as the transport you look to first when you want to plop a small aspect squad and/or their support character in the backfield.

* Making splinter cannons Assault 6 18" with an alternative Assault 3 36" profile would do interesitng things for them. It makes advancing an interesting trade-off. Gain mobility (and possibly shots), but lose accuracy.

*I'd like to see venoms and maybe star weavers gain access to anti-tank options like heat lances, blasters, or even fusion guns.

*Shadow Spectres aren't too bad, but they really ought to be able to deepstrike without using a stratagem.

*I'd like to see Khymarae (re)gain a 4+ invul save and a variation on the drone savior protocols rule. I'd like them to be able to serve as tanks for my other dark eldar beasts. My poor clawed fiend only ever reaches combat if my oppnents don't bother tossing shots at him.

*Reavers could stand to be improved in a lot of ways, but giving them splinter carbines instead of rifles would be great. It would let them take advantage of their super fast advance distance and act as a drivebye shooting unit.

*I'd like to be able to take vehicle upgrades on vypers. They aren't awful as they are, but you could do interesting things with double shuriken cannon vypers and vectored engines.

*Drazhar's aura is redundant with Power From pain after the first couple turns. Trade it out for pretty much any other applicable buff aura. Reroll 1's to hit. Reroll failed to-wound rolls. Anything.

*Modifying the asuryani webway stratagem to allow monstrous creatures to deepstrike would go a long way towards helping out the Avatar of Khaine, wraith lords, and coven MCs.

Just give the Land Raider variant something like "unstoppable Berhemoth", allowing it to fall back from combat and still able to shoot. Then it will be much much better than now. Currently just 2 Gargoyles survived the overwatch can tie this 350pts (after CA pts) thing up.

Admech:
Kataphorons; either another point of toughness, a wound or both. 3+ BS would also be nice.
Being able to take any IMPERIUM transport and using it without losing battleforged, basic infantry and enginseers are 1 spot, kataphorons and TPDs are 2 and cawl is 3.

Warriors and Immortals. You fix Reanimation Protocols so it's an ability the Necron player can actually rely on, suddenly these troops are well worth their points cost. I say make it so that the Necron player can roll "Emergency Protocols" on a fully destroyed unit once per battle round. I'd naturally prefer to get this for free of course, but I could see it as a 1 CP "make the army work" stratagem.

Tyranid prime.

-Remove the Red Terror from the game.
-Change it's aura to effect warriors, shrikes, and raveners.
-Give options to add take a serpent tail basically making it into a red terror like model that gives it a 12" M and the ability to deepstrike.
-Give option to take wings making it a shrike prime granting 12" M and the Fly keyword.

Why would you remove The Red Terror to do that though?

How about them Honour Guard?
Know the easiest fix for them? Let them actually increase the squad size!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why would you remove The Red Terror to do that though?

How about them Honour Guard?
Know the easiest fix for them? Let them actually increase the squad size!

Because it becomes redundant. The Ravener Prime would give a blanket +1 to hit and give options for rending claws and bone swords, and deathspitters etc etc...

The Red Terror has only Scytal and only gives it's +1 to hit in melee. Swallow Whole just isn't a great mechanic either. How often are you ever in a fight where the you would give up all your hits with ScyTal just to gamble on a single dice roll to swallow a single model? Id Rather take the Prime any day and boost the Raveners shooting and melee and be able to equip the Prime better to do the jobs I want it to do.

Orks lootas firing D6 shots instead of D3: now that vehicles have tons of wounds and armor saves these guys are useless with standard autocannons, especially without changing theri points value.

Burnaboyz: give them proper flamers, with D6 autohits instead of D3.

Killa kanz should have WS4+, flash gitz a 4+ save like nobz and I'd like traktor kannoz autohitting flyers. Killkannons should be S10 AP-3 D6 damage.

Warbikes need to be more resilient, a stock 5+ invuln, a +1 to their save or a -1 to hit if they moved the previous turns are all suggestions that fit the theme.

Talos should be more killy, dealing something like S10 AP-3 D3 damage and liquifire guns should be D6 autohits. Grotesques had the rampage special rule in 7th edition, I'd be glad if they get +1A if they charge. Bloodbrides should be able to be all equipped with melee special weapons or at least 4-5 models per unit. Succubus and archon should be able to get a jetbike or an hellion board. Venoms and raiders with transport capacity of 6 and 12 models. Haywire blasters wounding vehicles on 2s and dealing D3 mortal wounds each: they use to strip 2-4 HP on vehicles in 7th edition which means 50-75 or even 100% of their wounds in a single turn, they should be able to melt vehicles once again, there's no reason to use scourges otherwise.

I'd also like fearless fenrisian wolves if there's a model with a thunderwolf mount nearby. They're too fragile without a morale buff. Razorbacks could be equipped with twin frost cannons.

Guard
- Infantry can blob up without needing a Strategem to do so.
- FW vehicles such as Malcadors and Macharius', etc, can move and shoot heavy weapons with no penalty. If Russes can do that with their Battlecannons, why can't the bigger vehicles do so?

 Valkyrie wrote:
...- FW vehicles such as Malcadors and Macharius', etc, can move and shoot heavy weapons with no penalty. If Russes can do that with their Battlecannons, why can't the bigger vehicles do so?

At the moment some of the Malcadors have a rule called "Lumbering Advance" which lets them fire their hull-mounted demolisher cannons without the move-and-fire penalty; reword that to all heavy weapons and put it on the basic Malcador and the Infernus and you're all set. Alternately you could conclude that T8/W18 (which puts it in between the T8/W16 Land Raider without Steel Behemoth and the T8/W20 Spartan with Steel Behemoth) means that it ought to just have Steel Behemoth (but see below).

As for the Forge World superheavies I still think that their version of Steel Behemoth (identical to the Baneblade's in the Codex except for the "move and fire Heavy weapons at no penalty" clause) is a typo; add that line to Steel Behemoth on everything that's got it and the Macharius, Arkurian Baneblades, Crassus, etc. make more sense.

Addendum: Speaking of counterintuitive heavy/superheavy vehicles: the Gargantuan Squiggoth, Cobra/Scorpion, Lynx (as mentioned above), and Tau'nar probably need to ignore the Heavy penalty, and the Cerberus, Mastodon, and Fellblade chassis (both Chaos and loyal) are victim of the same faulty Steel Behemoth rule as the Guard superheavies.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
...- FW vehicles such as Malcadors and Macharius', etc, can move and shoot heavy weapons with no penalty. If Russes can do that with their Battlecannons, why can't the bigger vehicles do so?

At the moment some of the Malcadors have a rule called "Lumbering Advance" which lets them fire their hull-mounted demolisher cannons without the move-and-fire penalty; reword that to all heavy weapons and put it on the basic Malcador and the Infernus and you're all set. Alternately you could conclude that T8/W18 (which puts it in between the T8/W16 Land Raider without Steel Behemoth and the T8/W20 Spartan with Steel Behemoth) means that it ought to just have Steel Behemoth (but see below).

As for the Forge World superheavies I still think that their version of Steel Behemoth (identical to the Baneblade's in the Codex except for the "move and fire Heavy weapons at no penalty" clause) is a typo; add that line to Steel Behemoth on everything that's got it and the Macharius, Arkurian Baneblades, Crassus, etc. make more sense.

Addendum: Speaking of counterintuitive heavy/superheavy vehicles: the Gargantuan Squiggoth, Cobra/Scorpion, Lynx (as mentioned above), and Tau'nar probably need to ignore the Heavy penalty, and the Cerberus, Mastodon, and Fellblade chassis (both Chaos and loyal) are victim of the same faulty Steel Behemoth rule as the Guard superheavies.

Perhaps there should be a blanket "Vehicles ignore the heavy weapon penalty". Orks for example, an army which already lacks accuracy, is pretty much useless if they want their vehicles to move, since everything will be hitting on 6's. Flyers as well, vehicles which *have* to move are automatically getting -1 to hit. While some of them gain a +1 in some cases such as Strafing Run, in most cases all this does is offset the -1 heavy weapon penalty.

Wyldhunt wrote:
...* The falcon lacks a niche. I'd like to see it gain deepstrike. Sure, you can currently cloud strike it, but you have little reason to do so when you can cloudstrike a wave serpent instead. Giving the falcon deepstrike frees up a few CP and secures it as the transport you look to first when you want to plop a small aspect squad and/or their support character in the backfield...

I may borrow this idea for my Corsair book and bring back some test notes; the problem being that the Corsairs don't have the Wave Serpent so the niche-comparison would be odd.

Speaking of the Falcon chassis I've been looking at a variety of ways to make the tanks built on it (many of which feel underwhelming/underarmed) more interesting/useful for the Corsairs; the main ones are the Corsair targeting matrix (rather than the Crystal Targeting Matrix, which is rendered unuseable by screens, this one lets you fire all weapons as if you'd remained stationary at models within 12" to try and encourage speedy/aggressive play and let you Advance to get the Star Engines buff without sacrificing a huge amount of firepower to do so) and the Kinetic Shroud (5+ Invulnerable save all the time, improve it to a 4+ and/or add the Serpent Shield reduce-incoming-damage-by-1 mechanic after Advancing or in the turn they're deployed (so you get it top of 1/in a turn when you deepstrike)). Though the Kinetic Shroud is more about making the tank work for the Corsairs when Fortune/Protect aren't a thing than about fixing it generally.

*I'd like to see venoms and maybe star weavers gain access to anti-tank options like heat lances, blasters, or even fusion guns.

I'm not sure how much difference this would make given that you can already load them with Blasterborn/fusion-Harlequins. Though it might be funny.

That said speaking of the Blaster I find it pretty unimpressive when I've got the ability to take it or a fusion gun on Corsairs; the fusion gun is an extra two points but gets double the damage at shorter range, and that's already a pretty overpriced gun (it's only really useful when you can get it on a model that's 7pts naked). Imagine instead of the Imperial low power-low risk/high power-high risk plasma gun you got salvo/sustained modes the way pulsars and prism guns do, and at 15pts it was 18"/Assault 2/S6/AP-2/Dd3 or 18"/Assault 1/S8/AP-4/Dd6?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Valkyrie wrote:
...Perhaps there should be a blanket "Vehicles ignore the heavy weapon penalty". Orks for example, an army which already lacks accuracy, is pretty much useless if they want their vehicles to move, since everything will be hitting on 6's. Flyers as well, vehicles which *have* to move are automatically getting -1 to hit. While some of them gain a +1 in some cases such as Strafing Run, in most cases all this does is offset the -1 heavy weapon penalty.

I'm okay with lighter tanks taking the penalty, it's just that something like a Fellblade taking a move-and-fire penalty on a heavy bolter is kind of silly. Though if instead of "all heavy weapons" it was specific primary turret-mount weapons (like the version in Grinding Advance) so, for instance, a Predator would be fine with its turret gun but not with its sponsons, that might be a thing you could extend to every vehicle.

Honestly the only thing with Orks that should take move-and-fire penalties is the field guns (Big Gunz/Mek Gunz). And possibly Lootas.

As for Flyers so many of them already have ways to negate or selectively ignore the penalty (PotMS on the bigger Marine flyers, Strafing Run on Blackstars and Storm Talons, BS2+ base on the Crimson Hunter...) that it feels really weird when you run across planes that don't (by my count that illustrious cadre includes the Phoenix, the Necron planes, the shuttles (Aquila/Arvus), and the Vendetta).

Though I will amend that a fix with no points changes to the Vendetta would be giving it the Roving Gunship rule off the Valkyrie.

Some of the Skitarii relics need a boost. While relics in general aren't meant to be the game-dominating objects they were in 7th, some of the Skitarii ones are just pointless.

- Pater Cog Tooth: Fine as it is.
- Anizon's Pseudogenerator: Fine as it is.
- Phosphoenix: Fine as it is.

- Uncreator Gauntlet: Replaces a Power Fist, so only your Datasmith with measly 2 attacks can use it, just for an extra 2 Mortals on a vehicle. Skitarii shouldn't be getting into CC to deal with vehicles.
- Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land: You already heal D3 wounds anyway, the re-roll isn't that necessary.
- Rainment of the Technomartyr: For every 6+ to hit in Overwatch, I get another shot, which then has to still hit on 6+ as well. Taking up a relic just for 1 or 2 extra shots? Pass.
- Omniscient Mask: Skitarii are pretty crap in CC, rerolling failed hits in CC isn't going to help.
- Skull of Eldar Nikola: One use weapon with random range, may cause 1 or 2 Mortals if you're lucky. Unless there's a whole parking lot situated 2" away this won't be doing much.

For all vehicles, and maybe for models with 10 or more wounds:

Throw You Weight: Infantry cannot prevent this vehicle from moving in the movement phase and it may move through infantry models as if they were not there. If you stop the vehicle currently occupied by infantry, the infantry unit owner may redistribute the affected models 1" away from the vehicle's final location, in coherency if possible. If infantry models cannot be placed thusly, they take a mortal wound and if still alive, placed as close to the vehicle as possible.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

I may borrow this idea for my Corsair book and bring back some test notes; the problem being that the Corsairs don't have the Wave Serpent so the niche-comparison would be odd.

Speaking of the Falcon chassis I've been looking at a variety of ways to make the tanks built on it (many of which feel underwhelming/underarmed) more interesting/useful for the Corsairs; the main ones are the Corsair targeting matrix (rather than the Crystal Targeting Matrix, which is rendered unuseable by screens, this one lets you fire all weapons as if you'd remained stationary at models within 12" to try and encourage speedy/aggressive play and let you Advance to get the Star Engines buff without sacrificing a huge amount of firepower to do so) and the Kinetic Shroud (5+ Invulnerable save all the time, improve it to a 4+ and/or add the Serpent Shield reduce-incoming-damage-by-1 mechanic after Advancing or in the turn they're deployed (so you get it top of 1/in a turn when you deepstrike)). Though the Kinetic Shroud is more about making the tank work for the Corsairs when Fortune/Protect aren't a thing than about fixing it generally.

You should definitely post a thread about your corsair 'dex when it's ready!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:
For all vehicles, and maybe for models with 10 or more wounds:

Throw You Weight: Infantry cannot prevent this vehicle from moving in the movement phase and it may move through infantry models as if they were not there. If you stop the vehicle currently occupied by infantry, the infantry unit owner may redistribute the affected models 1" away from the vehicle's final location, in coherency if possible. If infantry models cannot be placed thusly, they take a mortal wound and if still alive, placed as close to the vehicle as possible.

I don''t know, Stormonu. Not only does that make it much harder to silence gunlines, it also reintroduces some of the complications of tank shock that a lot of people were happy to see gone in 8th. :(

Wyldhunt wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
For all vehicles, and maybe for models with 10 or more wounds:

Throw You Weight: Infantry cannot prevent this vehicle from moving in the movement phase and it may move through infantry models as if they were not there. If you stop the vehicle currently occupied by infantry, the infantry unit owner may redistribute the affected models 1" away from the vehicle's final location, in coherency if possible. If infantry models cannot be placed thusly, they take a mortal wound and if still alive, placed as close to the vehicle as possible.

I don''t know, Stormonu. Not only does that make it much harder to silence gunlines, it also reintroduces some of the complications of tank shock that a lot of people were happy to see gone in 8th. :(

Tank shock was always a bit of a bugger, getting your tank too close, and most of the time they'll just pass morale and move to the side.

This'll also stop the situation I've seen before where a few blokes have prevented a 100-ton tank from disengaging. If not this then a small boost to vehicle combat would be nice, seeing as most vehicles only have WS6+, very few attacks and no Ap value at all.

I'd give primaris FNP against D1-2 weapons to actually make more durable than standard SM and give them a chance to actually survive spammable weapons. On second thought, it could be FNP against everything as D3+ weapons means two FNP saves in a row which is extremely unlikely and such weapon would kill a primaris in one hit as intended.

Give Gravis W3. The fact they are as durable as any other primaris is dumb, and their equivalent, terminators, gets +1 wound.

Get rid of dumb vehicle restrictions, primaris count as 2 models but can embark on Rhinos and LRs. Gravis obey same embarkment rules as Centurions.

Allow people to give same options to primaris HQ as regular SM can have. Limit them to swords/fists if you want, but they should be able to mix pistols, at least.

Give reiver sergeant more weapon/pistol options and same deployment rules as scouts have. Also, their grenades need to have 6 inch range, and/or grenade launcher option.

I’d change Drop Pods to the following –

Change the 9” range to 2D6” range.
On a roll of 3 or less, all units within 3” of the Drop Pods final location take D3 mortal wounds. (friendly and enemy)
All models disembarking have to disembark within 3” of the Drop Pod and cannot be within 1” of enemy models. Any models that cannot be placed are removed as casualties.

You’d probably then need to restrict what they can transport to 1 INFANTRY unit + any number of characters up to a maximum of 10 models (same as Plasma Obliterator rules). Would retain the “no terminator or jump pack models” rule as well.

I'd make all bolters AP-1. This would impact Tacticals, Devastators, CSMs, Havocs, and anything else that carries a bolter.

They need to be a little deadlier to be effective. One small change would have a big impact.

Wyches: currently an interesting unit thanks to the variable stat buff system, but entirely limited by being a weak but still expensive body slinging S3 Ap- attacks. Also, their upgraded weaponry still, like three editions after it was introduced, does almost nothing. I'd rather jack up the costs and impacts of these unique weapons to allow you to make wyches more specialized and different (since gw wants you to run them as troops you have multiples of).

I'd add the following to their current No Escape rule:

Arena Fighting Styles: Wyches fight to please the crowd, their style shifting to suit their opponent, their audience, or simply their mood. Whenever a Wych unit is selected to fight in the fight phase, select one of the following combat styles to apply until the next time they are selected to fight.

1) Cat and Mouse: Wyches in battles they know to be won hang back, savoring the desperation and fear emanating from their victims as they draw out the killing for maximum effect.

If a unit in combat with a wych unit in Cat and Mouse stance attempts to fall back, they must win a roll-off. Additionally, Wyches in Cat and Mouse stance re-roll 1s for all saves.

2) Frenzy: surrounded by blood and death, Wyches will enter a battle trance, their actions and reflexes sped up to impossible levels. The arena crowd hotly anticipates this moment and will roar with approval when the wyches carve into a numerous group of adversaries, creating twisted art in the patterns of gore slicing through the air.

When a wych unit in Frenzy makes attacks, any to hit roll of 6+ grants an additional attack. These attacks do not themselves generate additional attacks.

3) Killing Blow: When facing dangerously armed and heavily armored opponents, wyches fall back on the heavy discipline of their training to find and exploit weakness. While not cheered on as loudly as a flurry of quickly-scored kills, a perfect strike penetrating a seemingly ironclad defense with a simple wych knife is highly appreciated by the tactical connoisseurs in attendance at the arena. These kills are highly sought after as they will often secure a wych the sponsorship of powerful Archons planning realspace raids.

Wyches in Killing Blow stance make only a single attack, but it always wounds on a 4+ regardless of an opponent's toughness and any wounds are resolved at an AP of -4.

And, as for the weapon upgrades, I'd like to solidify the roles and give them some real impact:

Shardnet and Impaler. Role: Neutralizing dangerously armed enemies, dealing heavy damage. Should have synergy with Killing Blow.

Cost: 10pts
S: User+1 AP: 0 D: 3
Special rule: Entangled. When a model in base to base contact with a model equipped with a Shardnet and Impaler is selected to fight, roll a D6. on a 4+, the controlling player may select one weapon that model is equipped with, it may not be used for the duration of that fight phase.

Razorflails. Role: Inflicting mass casualties. Should synergize with Frenzy.

Cost: 8
S: User AP: -2 D: 1

Special rule: The user may make one additional attack with this weapon when it is selected to fight.

Special rule: Bladewhip. A model equipped with this weapon may forgo its normal attacks in close combat to make one attack for each model within 1". If any of the models are friendly, then any to-hit rolls of 1 will cause a single hit on a randomly selected friendly unit with models within 1" of the wielder.

Hydra Gauntlets: Adaptive/defensive weapon. Should have synergy with Cat and Mouse.

Cost: 12
S: User+1. AP: -1 D: d3

Special rule: The user may make one additional attack with this weapon when it is selected to fight.
Special rule: Adaptive Crystal. If the wielder successfully saves a wound, the next time they are selected to fight add 1 to the Strength, AP, and Damage of this weapon. This bonus is not cumulative.

That Killing Blow ability is proof most of you shouldn't be allowed to write rules.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Warriors and Immortals. You fix Reanimation Protocols so it's an ability the Necron player can actually rely on, suddenly these troops are well worth their points cost. I say make it so that the Necron player can roll "Emergency Protocols" on a fully destroyed unit once per battle round. I'd naturally prefer to get this for free of course, but I could see it as a 1 CP "make the army work" stratagem.

My fix for Warriors and Immortals would be to let them better blob up. Increase Warrior max squad size increased to 30 and Immortals to 15, then give them the inverse of the tactical squad rule that Space Marines have.

Silver Tide: Before any models are deployed at the start of the game, a <Dynasty> Necron Warrior squad may combine with any other <Dynasty> Necron Warrior squads to create a single unit. This combined unit may not exceed the maximum model count of 30 for Necron Warriors.

This way Necron players could take 3 minimum units for filling out detachments, but still get benefit from Reanimation Protocols. It's not as good as getting RP after death, but it seems like enough to make them viable without too much impact to the game.

Pfft ill do you one better ill fix 2 units in a single go.

Give scarab occult terminators the following rule
Court of the crimson king: If a model from this unit is within 6" of Magnus the red when he suffers a wound (excluding mortal wounds) on a 2+ this unit may take the save for that wound, and use its armor and save as if it were the one being hit.

Boom, just fixed the issue with magnuses survivability, made it so scarab occult are actually worth taking, and did it in such a way, magnus must sacrifice his mobility and warptime foolery to utilize the rule.

Speaking of SM:

- crux terminator gives 5+++ instead 5++
- walkers can move and fire without -1 to hit penalty
- predators 2+ save to justify the difference in points with rhino and Razor
- land Speeder -1 to be hitted if they move their full movement in previous turn

Tau Commanders, all of them.

Drop BS to 3+
Make it so their Master of War ability is used during the shooting phase instead of shooting and can be used every turn instead of once a game. Increase it's range from 6" to 18".

Shadowsun and Farsight have their specialized version at a range of 24".

Now they are not leagues better than crisis suits and it's probably not even better to shoot instead of issuing command orders.

 Lance845 wrote:
Tau Commanders, all of them.

Drop BS to 3+
Make it so their Master of War ability is used during the shooting phase instead of shooting and can be used every turn instead of once a game. Increase it's range from 6" to 18".

Shadowsun and Farsight have their specialized version at a range of 24".

Now they are not leagues better than crisis suits and it's probably not even better to shoot instead of issuing command orders.

Your forgeting this is age of hero hammer 40k edition, making a comander whos not primarily a damage dealer is against what GW is going for in 8th.

 Lance845 wrote:
Tau Commanders, all of them.

Drop BS to 3+
Make it so their Master of War ability is used during the shooting phase instead of shooting and can be used every turn instead of once a game. Increase it's range from 6" to 18".

Shadowsun and Farsight have their specialized version at a range of 24".

Now they are not leagues better than crisis suits and it's probably not even better to shoot instead of issuing command orders.

I don't know. I'm a fan of mechanics that let leaders feel like they're actually leading, but this would mean you're either not taking cool weapon options in order to benefit from a baked in ability OR that you're not benefitting from the baked in ability. I don't particularly want to discourage marine captains from taking relic blades or autarchs from taking fusion guns if they want to use their reroll auras, and I'm not sure I want to punish commanders for taking guns either.


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Ice_can wrote:


Your forgeting this is age of hero hammer 40k edition, making a comander whos not primarily a damage dealer is against what GW is going for in 8th.

Counter examples:

*Doom/Guide/Fortune farseers
*Spirit seers
* Warlocks
* Arguably Guilliman (most people never let him get close enough to murder stuff, but he's useful as a force multiplier)
* Ethereals
* Fire Blades
* Haemonculi
* Company Commanders
* Tech Priests
* Dark Strider
* GSC Magus
* GSC Standard bearer guy
* Arguably big mekz (whom I mostly see taken for their shield auras.)
* Crypteks
*Arguably chaos sorcerers whom I generally see used as warp timers/shooting buffers.

Some of those guys aren't slouches in combat, but you're definitely not taking them because they're the most deadly single combatants in their books. Hero hammer isn't dead, but this is the age of bubble hammer.