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The 18 known primarchs are all known to have their own unique proficiencies and skills, and they are all superhuman in most things, but do some stand out more than others? Which of the primarchs are more "jack of all trades" or "renaissance men" than their brothers?

Put differently, which primarchs have the skillset to handle the widest array of possible problems?

Dorn, Girlyman and the Lion I'd guess.

Ferrus? Wasn't he excellent at everything and earned the devoted loyalty of his men?

Sanguinius is very well rounded. Horus was too, hence his position of Warmaster.

Other contenders are Fulgrim, Dorn or Guilliman.

I understand Guilliman and Fulgrim, since they had the master of war thing down, plus some other stuff, but what is that makes Dorn so well-rounded?

Rajah wrote:
I understand Guilliman and Fulgrim, since they had the master of war thing down, plus some other stuff, but what is that makes Dorn so well-rounded?

Seconded. Dorn, IMHO, was as well-rounded as his lego blocks.

What about Perturabo?

 Kroem wrote:
Ferrus? Wasn't he excellent at everything and earned the devoted loyalty of his men?

Ferrus Manus had an unfortunate habit of losing his head in times of battle.

Horus, Guilliman or Sanguinius probably.

Rajah wrote:
What about Perturabo?

No charisma, no compassion, no understanding of the needs of his men, too critical, too judgmental, and too stubborn to admit when he's wrong.

Plus the whole 'my dad doesn't give me enough attention so I'm throwing my toys out of the pram' thing.

Gulliman and Horus easily

Vulcan? He always comes across as being well rounded.

 ChazSexington wrote:

Rajah wrote:
I understand Guilliman and Fulgrim, since they had the master of war thing down, plus some other stuff, but what is that makes Dorn so well-rounded?

Seconded. Dorn, IMHO, was as well-rounded as his lego blocks.

Being renowned for Defensive and Offensive capabilities, including Shock Assault, Siege Breaking, Siege Defense, Urban Operation and Void Warfare isn't rounded enough? Or their use of AdHoc command structure leading Combine Arms forces capable of being outfitted for Close Assault or Long Ranged Engagements? The Legion whose record in the Great Crusade is described as Second only to the Luna Wolves? The Legion the Emperor personally chose to have accompany him through most of the Crusade?

The Legion reflects the its Lord. He may have been inflexible in his personality, but in Warfare?

Gulliman is the most well-rounded, but that makes sense as he was the template the others were built from. Horus probably runs a close second since he also has the 'good at everything he tried' tag

You could make an argument for Fulgrim for being the best at trying and mastering new things. He was a decent at his martial skills but sought out more non-military pursuits than any of his peers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

Rajah wrote:
I understand Guilliman and Fulgrim, since they had the master of war thing down, plus some other stuff, but what is that makes Dorn so well-rounded?

Seconded. Dorn, IMHO, was as well-rounded as his lego blocks.

Being renowned for Defensive and Offensive capabilities, including Shock Assault, Siege Breaking, Siege Defense, Urban Operation and Void Warfare isn't rounded enough? Or their use of AdHoc command structure leading Combine Arms forces capable of being outfitted for Close Assault or Long Ranged Engagements? The Legion whose record in the Great Crusade is described as Second only to the Luna Wolves? The Legion the Emperor personally chose to have accompany him through most of the Crusade?

Those 'inflexible' Imperial Fists?

That says a lot for his martial glory, but very little for his well roundeness. He doesn't seem to have tried/mastered anything beyond battle. Even the Wolf would sing and tell stories. You know you are static when the Wolf comes across as more cultured than you.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Gulliman is the most well-rounded, but that makes sense as he was the template the others were built from. Horus probably runs a close second since he also has the 'good at everything he tried' tag

You could make an argument for Fulgrim for being the best at trying and mastering new things. He was a decent at his martial skills but sought out more non-military pursuits than any of his peers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

Rajah wrote:
I understand Guilliman and Fulgrim, since they had the master of war thing down, plus some other stuff, but what is that makes Dorn so well-rounded?

Seconded. Dorn, IMHO, was as well-rounded as his lego blocks.

Being renowned for Defensive and Offensive capabilities, including Shock Assault, Siege Breaking, Siege Defense, Urban Operation and Void Warfare isn't rounded enough? Or their use of AdHoc command structure leading Combine Arms forces capable of being outfitted for Close Assault or Long Ranged Engagements? The Legion whose record in the Great Crusade is described as Second only to the Luna Wolves? The Legion the Emperor personally chose to have accompany him through most of the Crusade?

Those 'inflexible' Imperial Fists?

That says a lot for his martial glory, but very little for his well roundeness. He doesn't seem to have tried/mastered anything beyond battle. Even the Wolf would sing and tell stories. You know you are static when the Wolf comes across as more cultured than you.

Dorn had no delusions over what his role was, he was a Soldier, that was what he was created to be. He was rounded in the field of war, the question didn't specify they had to be rounded in all matters. In war he's a jack of all trades, and he's shown when push comes to shove he can be leader politically, though he is out of his comfort zone. Heck, the fact that he had an Empire, before meeting the Emperor, shows that.

 ChargerIIC wrote:


You could make an argument for Fulgrim for being the best at trying and mastering new things. He was a decent at his martial skills but sought out more non-military pursuits than any of his peers.

The first two HH novels indicate that Horus made his Astartes take lesson in things beyond war, hoping that one day they wouldn't be needed in that role.

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:


You could make an argument for Fulgrim for being the best at trying and mastering new things. He was a decent at his martial skills but sought out more non-military pursuits than any of his peers.

The first two HH novels indicate that Horus made his Astartes take lesson in things beyond war, hoping that one day they wouldn't be needed in that role.

you sure about that? I don't recall that, I do recall that being said of Gulliman and the Ultramarines,

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

Rajah wrote:
I understand Guilliman and Fulgrim, since they had the master of war thing down, plus some other stuff, but what is that makes Dorn so well-rounded?

Seconded. Dorn, IMHO, was as well-rounded as his lego blocks.

Being renowned for Defensive and Offensive capabilities, including Shock Assault, Siege Breaking, Siege Defense, Urban Operation and Void Warfare isn't rounded enough? Or their use of AdHoc command structure leading Combine Arms forces capable of being outfitted for Close Assault or Long Ranged Engagements? The Legion whose record in the Great Crusade is described as Second only to the Luna Wolves? The Legion the Emperor personally chose to have accompany him through most of the Crusade?

The Legion reflects the its Lord. He may have been inflexible in his personality, but in Warfare?

Warfare is still only one aspect of the Primarch. He may have been flexible in combat style, but beyond that, he had very little. If he wasn't fighting, he'd be near-useless. Horus, Sanguinius, Guilliman and Fulgrim at the very least all seem to have very balanced and the potential for leadership in a post-war Imperium.

Plus, multiple legions are described as having records second to the Luna Wolves (see Dark Angels and Ultramarines, and I imagine the Blood Angels and Emperor's Children have had similar things said about them). What's your source of the Imperial Fists being second only to the Luna Wolves?

ChargerIIC wrote:Gulliman is the most well-rounded, but that makes sense as he was the template the others were built from. Horus probably runs a close second since he also has the 'good at everything he tried' tag

You could make an argument for Fulgrim for being the best at trying and mastering new things. He was a decent at his martial skills but sought out more non-military pursuits than any of his peers.

Guilliman was the template for the rest? Where does this source come from?

BrianDavion wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:


You could make an argument for Fulgrim for being the best at trying and mastering new things. He was a decent at his martial skills but sought out more non-military pursuits than any of his peers.

The first two HH novels indicate that Horus made his Astartes take lesson in things beyond war, hoping that one day they wouldn't be needed in that role.

you sure about that? I don't recall that, I do recall that being said of Gulliman and the Ultramarines,

I think I remember Horus doing that, or at least encouraging it.

And yes, Guilliman did too for his Legion. They were very publicly active in Ultramar's normal running.

Yes, I was taking “war” as just one facet. So Guilliman studied statecraft and even things like architecture. Fulgrim had artistic work. Vulcan and Ferrus Manus did weponsmithing and forging, etc. I was talking about primarchs that had the widest range of skills.

Vulcan, Sangi, and Horus. I would even say Corax was well rounded due to his calmness, brutalness, and ability to understand the minds of normal men appose to thinking they were just nobodies since they were not astartes.

Gilly was to stern, and driven by meticulous scenarios, a few books, including The unremembered empire, sight him as being to straight and narrow, and hence almost misses things. Such as the Alpha Legion assassin squad.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

Rajah wrote:
I understand Guilliman and Fulgrim, since they had the master of war thing down, plus some other stuff, but what is that makes Dorn so well-rounded?

Seconded. Dorn, IMHO, was as well-rounded as his lego blocks.

Being renowned for Defensive and Offensive capabilities, including Shock Assault, Siege Breaking, Siege Defense, Urban Operation and Void Warfare isn't rounded enough? Or their use of AdHoc command structure leading Combine Arms forces capable of being outfitted for Close Assault or Long Ranged Engagements? The Legion whose record in the Great Crusade is described as Second only to the Luna Wolves? The Legion the Emperor personally chose to have accompany him through most of the Crusade?

The Legion reflects the its Lord. He may have been inflexible in his personality, but in Warfare?

Warfare is still only one aspect of the Primarch. He may have been flexible in combat style, but beyond that, he had very little. If he wasn't fighting, he'd be near-useless. Horus, Sanguinius, Guilliman and Fulgrim at the very least all seem to have very balanced and the potential for leadership in a post-war Imperium.

Plus, multiple legions are described as having records second to the Luna Wolves (see Dark Angels and Ultramarines, and I imagine the Blood Angels and Emperor's Children have had similar things said about them). What's your source of the Imperial Fists being second only to the Luna Wolves?

Horus Rising is the source.

Also I think you all continuously over look the fact that Dorn had his own Empire, one he surrendered when he met the Emperor. If he could run his own Star Empire, I think Warfare isnt the only thing he was good at. He just didn't get along with his Brothers, or Malcador because of his personality.

Rajah wrote:
The 18 known primarchs are all known to have their own unique proficiencies and skills, and they are all superhuman in most things, but do some stand out more than others? Which of the primarchs are more "jack of all trades" or "renaissance men" than their brothers?

Put differently, which primarchs have the skillset to handle the widest array of possible problems?

Rowboat Gorillaman, obviously. Horus was also well-rounded, but he had personal issues that made him easy to corrupt.

What about Lorgar? He didn't really have a speciality and was obviously good at writing books. As opposed to Guilliman and Horus who where good at everything Lorgar was bad at everything. He was also apparently good at statescraft but he was very slow and cared way to much about the imperial citizens. Come to think of it Lorgar might have been great to have around post great crusade for statecraft reasons, 'cept for the whole religious thing. It's actually ironic, since had Lorgar remained loyal he might very well have been the most loyal and faithfull primarch of them all. Kind of tragic really.

I gotta question this stuff about Dorn being well rounded. Competent yes but his schtick was always to be a siege specialist and architect, wasn't it?

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Gulliman is the most well-rounded, but that makes sense as he was the template the others were built from. Horus probably runs a close second since he also has the 'good at everything he tried' tag

You could make an argument for Fulgrim for being the best at trying and mastering new things. He was a decent at his martial skills but sought out more non-military pursuits than any of his peers.

Guilliman was not a template for the other primarchs in any sense.

@OP: I'd say Horus and Guilliman would be at the top of the list.

Much as I do love Guilliman, I think Sanguinius deserves to be higher. Horus and Sangy at the top, followed by Guilliman and Fulgrim.

Curze, he’s completely just, looks at his world, he made it crime FREeee, they went back to their corrupt ways and he was justified to blow it up and start over.

On a serious note: Horus prior to corruption would be my vote, Guilliman was too OCD, sanguinious had that dark under current of emotions, the lion is just shady, dorn can’t even smile, fulgrim was eventually brought downed by pride, but when he had his pride in check early on, he would be my close 2nd vote.

 Nerak wrote:
What about Lorgar? He didn't really have a speciality and was obviously good at writing books. As opposed to Guilliman and Horus who where good at everything Lorgar was bad at everything. He was also apparently good at statescraft but he was very slow and cared way to much about the imperial citizens. Come to think of it Lorgar might have been great to have around post great crusade for statecraft reasons, 'cept for the whole religious thing. It's actually ironic, since had Lorgar remained loyal he might very well have been the most loyal and faithfull primarch of them all. Kind of tragic really.

Lorgar was a builder without any tactic or combat prowess.

And yes, Lorgar would have been perfect for the IoM any millennium between 32 and 40. He just wasnt suited for the 30th.

What about Vulkan? Theres something he was unbalanced about? Had he some kind of problem in his personality or capabilities like Argron, Perturabo, etc...?

 Galas wrote:
What about Vulkan? Theres something he was unbalanced about? Had he some kind of problem in his personality or capabilities like Argron, Perturabo, etc...?

Well by the end he was pretty traumatised by his own repeated deaths.

How about Khan? In the book “Scars”, it is said the legion learns one of the “Noble Arts” in addition to warrior training. These arts being calligraphy, music, poetry, etc.