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I know, sounds like a book title.

Anyway, this thread is for tactical discussion on how to survive the kind of crippling alpha strikes frequenting competitive metas. This is not a faction specific thread so feel free to discuss tools/methods for any faction to survive against any other faction. I'll start off by listing and describing some of the most common alpha strikes so people unfamiliar with the current scene know what we're up against, just click the spoiler tags. All upgrades and additions will be noted by the unit.

Feel free to add any other strong alpha strike lists and I'll edit them into the OP. I haven't seen them all so I'm just putting what I know up here.

Eldar


Blood Angels



Any Space Marine


Imperial Guard


Chaos Space Marine

Space Marine factions don't have a way to survive alpha strikes, base unit cost is too expensive and they rely on a flier with 14 wounds, a 3+ save, and toughness 7. The meta laughs at this gak. Until space marines get either cheaper or tougher, they won't survive an alpha strike. Except for Raven Guard of course.

 ultimentra wrote:
Space Marine factions don't have a way to survive alpha strikes, base unit cost is too expensive and they rely on a flier with 14 wounds, a 3+ save, and toughness 7. The meta laughs at this gak. Until space marines get either cheaper or tougher, they won't survive an alpha strike. Except for Raven Guard of course.

Is one -1 enough though? Most enemies downgrade to hitting on a 4+ from that and will have some access to re-roll 1's. Alaitoc gets away with it by stacking it up to -2 (rangers, flyers, psychic powers). I'm not sure Raven Guard is much safer.

SftS helps a lot though, unless it's a melee unit going second.

Anyway, it seems the key to surviving alpha strike is to have stacking -1 auras.

This is a great question Audustum. My gaming group has been having the same issue. Even with a standard amount of terrain (following Nova rules) and using ITC or NOVA type missions, it seems the alpha strike is just too strong. Whoever goes second is left trying to compete with 25% less points on the board.

How do people avoid getting hit hard by the alpha strike with any list? Do you just swarm the board with cheap bodies and deep strike the more elite units? The -1 does not seem to cut it for me because while it may help against shooting a lot of alhpa strikes involve a first turn charge.

looking foward to seeing feedback! Thanks again for the post.

in addition to shooting and melee alpha strikes, I’d say there is a hybrid 3rd: short-ranged shooting like deep striking Melta or plasma. It’s generally protected against the same way as melee, you just need thicker screens.
In general for alpha strikes though:
1. Keep important stuff off the table. Easier said than done in many cases, but putting important units in reserve or transports has been a proven strategy for several editions now. Not as universal anymore since you can’t just drop any unit into reserve anymore.
2. Screens. Some kind of cheap screen that takes up space limits your opponent’s ability to maneuver and protects your valuable units from melee, psychic attack, and short-range shooting. I’ll say that the size definitely matters in this case, the more space a screen takes up the better it is. Otherwise, something may shoot away your screen and then assault the stuff behind it, or kill it in melee and consolidate into the thing you were trying to protect.
3. -1 or more to hit. It’s not extremely reliable, but consider that without rerolls -1 reduces BS4 shooting by 33% and BS3 by 25%. It’s definitely better than nothing. The more you can stack the better.
4. Distraction unit. This is more if you don’t have access to large screens. Basically, put a must-kill unit front and center, then buff it with auras and a bit of screening. Ideally it’s something tough, and also a bit threatening (think imperial knight or super heavy tank with flamers). The idea is that your opponent will have to dedicate their alpha strike to destroying that one thing, but its loss won’t cripple you. Ideally it’s also something that doesn’t degrade quickly, forcing your opponent to kill it all the way (or very close to it).
5. Redundancy. There’s a saying that “two is one, and one is none”. It’s been a truth of 40k since 6th edition that if a unit is worth taking, it’s usually worth taking 2. Or 3 (my dad always said “anything worth doing is worth overdoing”). Not only does it preserve a capability if something dies, it also can make target priority harder for your opponent.


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Also, since it is relevant here’s a thread discussing the math of getting the +1 to go first: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/747637.page
Basically it’s ~62% chance of going first, or a 12% increase in your chances by having the fewest drops (shout out to kaptin_Blacksquig)

 ultimentra wrote:
Space Marine factions don't have a way to survive alpha strikes, base unit cost is too expensive and they rely on a flier with 14 wounds, a 3+ save, and toughness 7. The meta laughs at this gak. Until space marines get either cheaper or tougher, they won't survive an alpha strike. Except for Raven Guard of course.

Um, Scouts? The best unit in the game for pushing pack DS units. Alpha isn't all about firepower, it's also about Deepstrike and first turn charges. Scouts help immensely with the second two. Also, SM lists with out the flyer crutch have done fine for some guys at big events. Just sayin' it's not all Flyer or bust.

Wouldn't the easiest thing just be to make sure your opponent cant get into 12" range?

you dont need too terrible much to prevent it. a single line around a unit at least 3" away would cut most of the stronger dakka based alphas in half.

cant stop the las cannons outside of LOS blocking terrain. cant stop the artillery period

 Desubot wrote:
Wouldn't the easiest thing just be to make sure your opponent cant get into 12" range?

you dont need too terrible much to prevent it. a single line around a unit at least 3" away would cut most of the stronger dakka based alphas in half.

cant stop the las cannons outside of LOS blocking terrain. cant stop the artillery period

The other half of preventing alpha strike is ways to have keys units deploy off board so they come in at full strength for at least the one turn. Some armies do that way better than others, but its a thing, especially for armies that are otherwise MSU and won't often get the +1 to go first.

Ruleset helps - ITC published some data that the person who went second won 55% of the time. Of course, I would guess that these games didn't go beyond turn 3-4 as is typical of competitive games.... But this is somewhat in line with this thread.

The only other way to do it is to manage target priority and manage your deployment.

1) Your opponent is going to shoot SOMETHING - so give them the least appetizing targets
- If you are chaos and play mortarion - you can't sit there and gape when he gets blown of the table turn 1 with dakka to spare - you opened yourself up to this by bringing him - of course if you are running morty you may be hedging on going first the 64% of the time - which may be enough for you.
- Put squishes (oblits etc.) in deepstrike and have chaffe clearing units so you can actually get in range of something
- Mentally expect to lose something - if you expect to walk away having tabled your opponent and bragging how you lost only 1 marine then probably not playing competitive. The dice roll both ways.

2) Use infiltrating units to push out low range units -
- This is the bubble wrap - of course, against 48 inch range dark reapers may not be so relevant - but still can bubble you out for meltas and plasmas in most cases -
- 9 inch + 9 inch + 9 inch = 27 inch bubble for two units if you are trying to protect something squishy like a vehicle that can shoot far

3) Do the obvious - stack negative -1 to hit modifiers and FNP like a mother - don't expect to go first and always plan for worst case scenario
- don't take "fun" units but those that stack up best - not all units are viable in competitive - some legion traits are a must (alpha, etc.)

4) Play for objectives - this can compensate for an IG list that just wants to sit tanks in the back and maul you - you lose 25% may be ok if you have board control.

5) Distribute your points between your units -
- if they have one unit to put all thier dakka into (morty) and he dies - they know they have you by the balls - it is harder to judge what to shoot between 3 PBC rolling at 140 points each and a wad of 30 pinks with -1 invul strat. or 30 PBs with -1 to hit and a 5+++ - this clocks in around 850 points without banners etc and lets you put all your "good" units in deepstrike.

6) Practice your deployment -
- its not enough to know your units and conceptually know what is deepstriking - think about how they lay in relation to each other pertaining to LoS and deployment order -
- opponent drops heavy devastator squad second, put your unit 1 inch over its range to force heavy weapons to move - milk the additional -1.

 Fenris-77 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Wouldn't the easiest thing just be to make sure your opponent cant get into 12" range?

you dont need too terrible much to prevent it. a single line around a unit at least 3" away would cut most of the stronger dakka based alphas in half.

cant stop the las cannons outside of LOS blocking terrain. cant stop the artillery period

The other half of preventing alpha strike is ways to have keys units deploy off board so they come in at full strength for at least the one turn. Some armies do that way better than others, but its a thing, especially for armies that are otherwise MSU and won't often get the +1 to go first.

Also also using transports. though you always have that one in a billion chances to roll 5-10 1s when it explodes

As a GK player I always keep the max units I can in deep strike mode. If I go first, fine I drop them where needed. If I go second then I still have my important units available where I need them to be and they're still intact.

As a side note most of the GK stuff that can't deep strike isn't that good anyway.

I've resorted to putting some heavy weapons in... drop pods. With BA. Pardon me as I go vomit.

Another thing I've seen multiple codexes do well is build to tank the efficiency of opponent's high S/AP/D weapons. If you take nothing (visible) except single wound infantry (that are also moderate to low point value), all the points the opponent spent on LCs and the like goes in the toilet. Not every list can do this, but in the right environment it works quite well.

Tac marines in cover make lascannons pretty inefficient. Not primaris marines, though.

Martel732 wrote:
Tac marines in cover make lascannons pretty inefficient. Not primaris marines, though.

Hence "single wound" once you have multiple wounds (or higher point cost) you aren't taking nearly as big a bite out of his efficiency.

Martel732 wrote:
Tac marines in cover make lascannons pretty inefficient. Not primaris marines, though.

Anything with only 1 wound makes any multi damage weapon inefficient. (besides a handful of cool flail weapons)

Martel732 wrote:
I've resorted to putting some heavy weapons in... drop pods. With BA. Pardon me as I go vomit.

Also absolutely disgusting.

I think autocannons are perfectly efficient vs regular marines, because they are at least ROF 2 and 48", so they will get lots of shots on any squad you want. And they knock marines back to 3+ in cover. Perfect compromise weapon.

Martel732 wrote:
I think autocannons are perfectly efficient vs regular marines, because they are at least ROF 2 and 48", so they will get lots of shots on any squad you want. And they knock marines back to 3+ in cover. Perfect compromise weapon.

I think you may be missing my point, perhaps I wasn't clear. No one is really looking to tank the efficiency of Autocannons - they're moderate to low efficiency anyway compared to other options. Plus, you are still paying for that two damage and not using it. Anythewho - the weapons I'm talking about are Lascannons and the equivalent - high cost, high S/AP/D weapons (and plasma to an extent). The cost for those weapons is only worth paying if you have targets for the weapons - hence a type of list that denies those weapons a target, weapons that are, moreover, very - VERY - common in a lot of gunline alpha strike lists.

Moving on with the mitigation of Alpha Strike...

Maybe we should come up with categories? Or just collect and rationalize the categories that are already floating around on dakka. Let me list some off the top of my head:

Area Denial - (scouts etc) denying room for DS and fast charges
--Bubble Wrap - speed bumps between the enemy and your best squishies (probably a subcategory of area denial?)
Model Denial - DS/Webway/Outflank shenanigans that keep your pricey beatsticks out of harms way for a turn or two
Efficiency Denial - messin' with the maths - shizz like negatives to hit, target type denial (see above), Quantum Shielding etc

Anyone got anything else?

Yes, one wound chumpos do the trick nicely.

Martel732 wrote:
Yes, one wound chumpos do the trick nicely.

OK, we are on the same page. Excellent.

A lot depends on the rules you are using.

If you are not playing with ITC rules and with a time limit that allows you to play for turns 5-6, it is 100% possible to make lists with durability in mind, which will shrug off 2 turns of fire and pound the puny enemy glasscannon into the third slowly and painfully over 3 more turns.

There are no real tactical ways of protecting your units and your only real option is listbuilding. All you can really do is get +1 to armor save.

There are heaps of good things in this thread already, the one thing that doesn't seem to be expanded on outside of list building ideas is deployment. I mean it sounds obvious, but deployment is everything.

Against an alpha strike army you should be deploying as if you will go second. Abuse line of sight, put anything that you have that is important behind LOS (even if that means you can not shoot) and choose to go second if you win the roll. Castle your important units in the far corner, and deploy them last so you can check range vs the basilisks or something. Lean into infiltrating units to deny deep strike range, ideally have them 18" away from your important units, denying 24" deep strike guns if you've done it well. If you're castling like this, deploying in a corner (compared to mid board, or up at the front) is the most effective way. Your army can only cover X amount of board space and still effectively deny distance, that X is more effective when you only have two sides to deny (i.e. castle in back left, only have to deny right and front side).

I would say ignore objectives and concentrate on damage mitigation, have the game stretch out and force their hand so you can react. You are going second, so your deep strikes can respond to theirs. Obviously your mileage will vary depending on the list you're facing, the deployment type, and the terrain on the board. However, it's pretty counter-intuitive to deny yourself a whole turn against an army- but deploying yourself in an awkward manner forces the opponent to stretch them self out a bit, perhaps giving you openings to attack a flank or slow down their ability to gain points (in ITC for example). Otherwise you are charging forward and dying, giving them maximum damage, which I see many players attempt and fail. Patience is pretty critical against these armies.


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 koooaei wrote:
There are no real tactical ways of protecting your units and your only real option is listbuilding. All you can really do is get +1 to armor save.

Cmon man, are you hearing yourself? If deploying in cover is all you can think about that changes your game strategy, you should just spreadsheet your games instead of playing them.

You are laking several flavours of tyranids.

Swamlord/genstealers

Kraken Swarmlord with gargoyles

Mass kraken genstealers

Swamlord/genstealers with GSC

Mass kraken genstealers with GSC

Behemot alpha strike (adrenal glands and re-roll charges)

You also laks some form of ork jump list

 Niiai wrote:
You are laking several flavours of tyranids.

Swamlord/genstealers

Kraken Swarmlord with gargoyles

Mass kraken genstealers

Swamlord/genstealers with GSC

Mass kraken genstealers with GSC

Behemot alpha strike (adrenal glands and re-roll charges)

You also laks some form of ork jump list

Those are quite strong alpha strike list. But I think if that forms the main force. Castle up and A good bubble warp with scouts / Guardsmen MSU could ease the pain, at least a little bit.... The best units for bubble warp against such stuff should actually be Nurglings.

The way you deploy the Bubble Warp against rushing / Deepstrike list might need some special attention and careful evaluation, or it might even backfired. I've brainstormed multiple situation over weeks and I hope I can post a discussion about this topic with photo demonstration this weekend, when I can spend decent enough time in my local 40k club. Fingers crossed.

Castle up is the general tactic vs all alpha strike lists though.

Your general castle up would not work the kraken swarmlord gargoyles list for instance. Or you would at least have a hard time doing it. Most nid list try to threaten with alpha strike, and when you castle up they shoot away the chaff with hive tyrants / devilgaunt shooting and then strike turn 2. It is not unbeatable, but the OP asks for how to counter alpha strikes, then you need to know them.

Photo demonstartions would be great. 8th edition is a lot about these back and forth tap dance in list building and deployment.

orkswubwub wrote:


2) Use infiltrating units to push out low range units -
- This is the bubble wrap - of course, against 48 inch range dark reapers may not be so relevant - but still can bubble you out for meltas and plasmas in most cases -
- 9 inch + 9 inch + 9 inch = 27 inch bubble for two units if you are trying to protect something squishy like a vehicle that can shoot far

I second this. As someone who uses the Alpha Legion alpha strike list above (replace Bezerkers with Possessed), it really messes with my game plan when someone strings a semi-circle of chaff around their deployment zone, or screens the squishy targets that I would have loved to have charged.

 hollow one wrote:

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 koooaei wrote:
There are no real tactical ways of protecting your units and your only real option is listbuilding. All you can really do is get +1 to armor save.

Cmon man, are you hearing yourself? If deploying in cover is all you can think about that changes your game strategy, you should just spreadsheet your games instead of playing them.

So, what can you do with a dread mob if you're facing scion comsquad spam? Of if you're running witch cult and you're facing an ig gunline? What options does the game allow you to use other than scrap your current list and buy a whole lot of new models to build a new one?

That's exactly what i'm telling. There are a lot of lists you can do absolutely nothing against other than build a different list yourself.

 koooaei wrote:

 hollow one wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:
There are no real tactical ways of protecting your units and your only real option is listbuilding. All you can really do is get +1 to armor save.

Cmon man, are you hearing yourself? If deploying in cover is all you can think about that changes your game strategy, you should just spreadsheet your games instead of playing them.

So, what can you do with a dread mob if you're facing scion comsquad spam? Of if you're running witch cult and you're facing an ig gunline? What options does the game allow you to use other than scrap your current list and buy a whole lot of new models to build a new one?

That's exactly what i'm telling. There are a lot of lists you can do absolutely nothing against other than build a different list yourself.

You can employ tactics and still lose the game. Just because the result of the game doesn't change doesn't mean there is nothing you can do on the board.

"Then why bother?" you ask? To get better at the game, enjoy the game more, and edge out victories when the armies are more evenly matched.

 koooaei wrote:

 hollow one wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:
There are no real tactical ways of protecting your units and your only real option is listbuilding. All you can really do is get +1 to armor save.

Cmon man, are you hearing yourself? If deploying in cover is all you can think about that changes your game strategy, you should just spreadsheet your games instead of playing them.

So, what can you do with a dread mob if you're facing scion comsquad spam? Of if you're running witch cult and you're facing an ig gunline? What options does the game allow you to use other than scrap your current list and buy a whole lot of new models to build a new one?

That's exactly what i'm telling. There are a lot of lists you can do absolutely nothing against other than build a different list yourself.

This is a very simple way of looking at it. The thread legitimately starts with "competitive play." So assume competitive lists - not the flavor of the month I want to bring whatever I want. If you are a causal gamer and play someone who is competitive as hell - expect to lose. A well designed list will have strengths and weaknesses but should be able to handle a large umbrella of army types. Look at the armies that got top 50 at LVO - all wins or 5 and 1 - most are flexible. The alternative is go all-in on a gimmick and hope to win the deployment role 63% of the time - anticipating you win games you go first handily and can grind out some close ones in those you go second (maybe 80% win rate optimistically?). This would be a strategy but then don't be surprised when another list throttles you because you didn't try to build to account for any list diversity of your opponent.