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Been running into this problem a lot lately.

A unit comes on the board via deep strike / summoning / teleportation / some other mechanic. It's at the far table edge, I can't get to it conveniently. My opponent measures 9 inches for me and places a die (dice?) indicating the closest point at which my units can arrive. When it's time to charge, we measure, and now it's 10 inches or more.

What's happening? Often, it's not intentional, and several factors play into the measurement.

- The die is placed on the outer edge of the 9 inch bubble, adding the width of the die to the diameter of the bubble.

- Visual perspective. The measurement starts at a position somewhere beyond the base of the model because the person doing the measuring is standing behind it and overcompensates.

- Multiple measurements, where the distance is determined from the presence of 2 units. One die is placed for the first unit, then a second die is placed, and some distance gets added when adjusting.

- "Horseshoes" where it's not possible to get the ruler into the exact position because of intervening models, terrain, whatever. There's a natural instinct to put the die a little further then where it belongs.

- Flat out cheating. Most players don't like to be charged and their human frailties come out.

This has been screwing me up. The pace of the game doesn't always let players remember what was intended before Psychic / Shooting phases happened. and I've had a few situations where summoned Bloodletters were placed entirely outside charge range. Can't think of another mechanic that gets messed up more easily, even though it seems so simple.

A few suggestions for keeping things honest.

- Measure for yourself. It may go without saying, but sometimes we trust our friends a little too much.

- Always put the die inside the 9 inch bubble. This way, the unit arriving can push up against it.

- Measure from the side of the models. It gives you a more exact perspective.

- When doing multiple measurements, only use one die. Double-check the distance for previous units each time you measure.

- Replace intervening models with a die until the measurement is complete.

There's this one edge case that keeps coming up, where a unit arrives at a place that is equidistant from 2 enemy units. The deep striker needs models to 'wedge' between the opponent in order for things to work. This is challenging, because the opposite can easily happen, where suddenly my models are inadvertently placed within 9 inches.

Other than double checking, not sure how to easily account for the problem. I just want everything to remain fair.

Whaaaaaaa


You are playing this very different to me.

Here's my method.

1. Determine if the unit can fit within the available space that is more than 9" from any enemy model.
2. Put the unit down in the position you measured and say to your oppoent "this unit is over 9 inches away from you"
3. Roll >9 on two dice
4. Move them.

I don't re-measure when it's time to charge. It was 9.00001 inches away before, so it's there now.

I do however use some bamboo chopsticks which I have cut to 9 inches long which I use to do deep strikes... helps to put the sticks in base contact with enemy models to show exactly where you can drop.

If you have just arrived and there has been no movement of either model, if you roll a 9 its sucessful. When i play with a friend if i am deepstriking and then planning a charge we will place the models roughly and then there is no need to remeassure, i need a 9.

Im not sure how, if there hasnt been any movement you are happy if you are told you need a 10 now?

Yeah I've seen this a few times where the distance has grown or sometimes got smaller after placement.

As long as you both agree it is 9" away on placement, it shouldn't matter. Unless you're playing TFG that is...

MadMekRoff wrote:
Yeah I've seen this a few times where the distance has grown or sometimes got smaller after placement.

As long as you both agree it is 9" away on placement, it shouldn't matter. Unless you're playing TFG that is...

Yeah, the trouble is players don't always remember that something arrived from deep strike. Should be simple, I know, but it's easy to overlook after the rest of the turn completes.

Felt like I needed to create this thread after recent experiences with summoning Bloodletters. They should be only 9 inches away after they hit the table, but measurement shennanigans put them over 12 inches after measuring from a target unit that lost no models.

 techsoldaten wrote:

MadMekRoff wrote:
Yeah I've seen this a few times where the distance has grown or sometimes got smaller after placement.

As long as you both agree it is 9" away on placement, it shouldn't matter. Unless you're playing TFG that is...

Yeah, the trouble is players don't always remember that something arrived from deep strike. Should be simple, I know, but it's easy to overlook after the rest of the turn completes.

Felt like I needed to create this thread after recent experiences with summoning Bloodletters. They should be only 9 inches away after they hit the table, but measurement shennanigans put them over 12 inches after measuring from a target unit that lost no models.

I don't know if it's something that would work for you, but I use counters for stuff.

When I shifted from low unit to horde armies, I found I was forgetting what everything did and what had moved etc...
So I started using different coloured tokens to represent if something had shot yet, if it had popped smokes or if I was intending to charge with it. It adds another layer of faff to an already convoluted game, but I found it worked wonders for organising my play style, especially outside of friendly games where time pressure is more prevalent.

12"? No way that big error can be measurement errors. Especially consistly. You have almost inch leeway. 3 is ridiculous

...I agree, how on earth do you miss-measure 3 inches?

 vaklor4 wrote:
...I agree, how on earth do you miss-measure 3 inches?

How indeed. Frustrated me enough I felt the need to create a thread about it.

It's not just that it's been affecting me, I've seen it in other people's games. Unless I specifically remember that the unit arrived by Deep Strike at 9 inches, the added distance can go overlooked.

Well, let's clarify something while we're at it.

Deep Striking units must be placed "more" than 9" away, so in theory 9.01+", etc. When charging, you must get within 1" of an enemy combatant. So, you'll need a roll of 9 regardless even if the distance itself is indeed 10".

How we do it? Simple. We place the models within reason at the 9" distance and just acknowledge a roll of 9+ is required to get into charge range. We don't worry about the .001" etc. We just always agree, if you Deep Struck you need a 9+ to charge. Don't get hung up on the minutiae if you don't need to.

PS: If this is an actual issue, don't let your opponent place dice for you (heck, don't even use dice...use the models, place them at the end of the Movement Phase as instructed in the rules). It doesn't matter how convenient it is for you to get to that part of the table...if you're having an issue, walk around the table and sort it out yourself.

I’ll always put the models down when they come in, and this far it’s been a simple “it’s 9 in” with no re-measuring when we hit the charge phase, even if it wasn’t exact. However, I do try to put the models as close to their desired position as possible for follow-on turns in case they don’t make their charge.

 greyknight12 wrote:
I’ll always put the models down when they come in, and this far it’s been a simple “it’s 9 in” with no re-measuring when we hit the charge phase, even if it wasn’t exact. However, I do try to put the models as close to their desired position as possible for follow-on turns in case they don’t make their charge.

this is exactly how my gaming group handles it - place models roughly 9" away from enemies - we all know and agree, its a 9" charge to get in. Everything else is really up to the players - mind you, we're houseruling a lot of things to keep stuff fun and interesting for the whole group. in all seriousness - bitching about whether or not its 9.1" or 8.9" away counts as being "that guy" to the group, and these people don`t tend to see much play with us. But that's probably also up to the competiveness of your group.

I deep strike Ork hordes a lot, basically every turn I'm Da Jumping them. With a huge blob sometimes my opponent is nice enough to make dice circles around their units, so I use them as guides. I can't imagine not measuring a dice or two myself to check.

In a tournament setting I place a rough shape of the unit with a quick measure, generally close to 8" or 9" and then ask my opponent to push back any models he chooses to measure that I placed illegally. I find this to be super quick, and I can continue with the rest of my phase even if my opponent is pedantic about positioning.

Get in the practice of measuring, placing a model, and then telling your opponent "see this guy, he's 9.0001 inches away" then move on.

Models get bumped a lot in play, so with the Advent of premeasuring there's no reason not to let your opponent know things like "these guys are just at 12" for rapid fire" or "I'm making sure this pysker is 1/2" closer to this unit so I can smite it." That way when the model inevitably gets bumped, you can both look at it and say "ah he was supposed to be here at this distance, let's fix that."

 techsoldaten wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
...I agree, how on earth do you miss-measure 3 inches?

How indeed. Frustrated me enough I felt the need to create a thread about it.

It's not just that it's been affecting me, I've seen it in other people's games. Unless I specifically remember that the unit arrived by Deep Strike at 9 inches, the added distance can go overlooked.

If this really is a recurring problem then make a measuring tool. Get a piece of dowel or something, cut it just over 9" long. Then you just lay it on the table touching the base of the closest enemy model and you place the first model in the unit touching the tool. Nice and easy, always consistent.

 Silentz wrote:
Whaaaaaaa


You are playing this very different to me.

Here's my method.

1. Determine if the unit can fit within the available space that is more than 9" from any enemy model.
2. Put the unit down in the position you measured and say to your oppoent "this unit is over 9 inches away from you"
3. Roll >9 on two dice
4. Move them.

I don't re-measure when it's time to charge. It was 9.00001 inches away before, so it's there now.

I do however use some bamboo chopsticks which I have cut to 9 inches long which I use to do deep strikes... helps to put the sticks in base contact with enemy models to show exactly where you can drop.

What this guy said. If you're opponent is "measuring" for you, and then after you place and range the charge and now says you're actually 10" away, I think you've been a real gentleman not to have punched him in the face. Then again maybe I should set the bar for my personal conduct a bit higher with regards to table top gaming sportsmanship.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Get in the practice of measuring, placing a model, and then telling your opponent "see this guy, he's 9.0001 inches away" then move on.

Models get bumped a lot in play, so with the Advent of premeasuring there's no reason not to let your opponent know things like "these guys are just at 12" for rapid fire" or "I'm making sure this pysker is 1/2" closer to this unit so I can smite it." That way when the model inevitably gets bumped, you can both look at it and say "ah he was supposed to be here at this distance, let's fix that."

This. If you declare intention from the outset then when models are bumped or accidentally knocked over and stood back up/hit by dice etc then there is no issue as to where that model was supposed to have been.

Deepstrike (funny how we still use this term) 9" away from an enemy, you need a 9+ on 2D6 to make the charge - no ifs ands or buts. Can't be made any simpler than that.

I played against someone once who insisted on everything being measured to the absolute decimal point of an inch and would lose it when stuff was knocked over or wobbly models were moved on terrain pieces... needless to say, that was not a fun game.