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Released worldwide yesterday (International Women’s Day - well played, Netflix), and I’m up to episode six.

Really enjoying it, and for me pleasing to see that sans DT, the show still carries itself beautifully.

How easy would you say it is to get into without having seen S1? The first series really bored me and I only got 4 episodes in. I really like Ritter as Jessica and she was great in The Defenders, but the plot didn't seem to really go anywhere in the episodes of S1 I watched. I'd like to give S2 a go, so long as I can get by on only knowing the broad strokes of what went down in S1.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Released worldwide yesterday (International Women’s Day - well played, Netflix), and I’m up to episode six.

Really enjoying it, and for me pleasing to see that sans DT, the show still carries itself beautifully.

Adds it to list, good to hear it holds up without wee Davie McD because as splendid (and lubberly) as Ms Ritter is I think the awesome sauce was pretty evenly split between them in S1

 Paradigm wrote:
How easy would you say it is to get into without having seen S1? The first series really bored me and I only got 4 episodes in. I really like Ritter as Jessica and she was great in The Defenders, but the plot didn't seem to really go anywhere in the episodes of S1 I watched. I'd like to give S2 a go, so long as I can get by on only knowing the broad strokes of what went down in S1.

The second season is even more deliberately paced and has an even more personal storyline than the first season, so TBH if you found that boring you're probably not going to enjoy the second. Personally the first remains my favourite of "Netflixverse" shows and the deliberate pacing is part of why.

In terms of the OP and season 2 - I'm still processing it tbh. I think I liked it, but it does a lot of stuff with some characters that I'm not sure of yet.

Its on my list for sure, I also think S1 is my fav Netflix superhero show.....possibly S1 DD but Id really have to think on that

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
How easy would you say it is to get into without having seen S1? The first series really bored me and I only got 4 episodes in. I really like Ritter as Jessica and she was great in The Defenders, but the plot didn't seem to really go anywhere in the episodes of S1 I watched. I'd like to give S2 a go, so long as I can get by on only knowing the broad strokes of what went down in S1.

The second season is even more deliberately paced and has an even more personal storyline than the first season, so TBH if you found that boring you're probably not going to enjoy the second. Personally the first remains my favourite of "Netflixverse" shows and the deliberate pacing is part of why.

In terms of the OP and season 2 - I'm still processing it tbh. I think I liked it, but it does a lot of stuff with some characters that I'm not sure of yet.

You don’t need to have seen Season 1. I’ve watched it, but don’t really remember that much (work stuff pushes fun stuff out of my brain), and I’m able to follow the happenings just fine.

I’m now on episode 9, and we’ve hit the traditional Netflix Narrative Sag. However, given what’s happening here, I think the slow down is at least partly necessary. I won’t say why because spoilers, but hopefully others will see what I mean, even if they don’t necessarily agree.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
How easy would you say it is to get into without having seen S1? The first series really bored me and I only got 4 episodes in. I really like Ritter as Jessica and she was great in The Defenders, but the plot didn't seem to really go anywhere in the episodes of S1 I watched. I'd like to give S2 a go, so long as I can get by on only knowing the broad strokes of what went down in S1.

The second season is even more deliberately paced and has an even more personal storyline than the first season, so TBH if you found that boring you're probably not going to enjoy the second. Personally the first remains my favourite of "Netflixverse" shows and the deliberate pacing is part of why.

In terms of the OP and season 2 - I'm still processing it tbh. I think I liked it, but it does a lot of stuff with some characters that I'm not sure of yet.

You don’t need to have seen Season 1. I’ve watched it, but don’t really remember that much (work stuff pushes fun stuff out of my brain), and I’m able to follow the happenings just fine.

I’m now on episode 9, and we’ve hit the traditional Netflix Narrative Sag. However, given what’s happening here, I think the slow down is at least partly necessary. I won’t say why because spoilers, but hopefully others will see what I mean, even if they don’t necessarily agree.

I just finished episode 5 myself. Really enjoying it so far. Jessica Jones S1 was my favorite so far.

They really do need to trim a little of the fat from the Marvel Netflix shows. They all follow the same format of every 4 episodes the story takes a turn and then a big finale in episode 13. They could probably be a tighter better 9-10 episode seasons and mix it up where the twists and turns take place in different seasons instead of the predictable patterns.

This might be the only show outside of Punisher that actually uses it's 13 episodes well. It is a deliberately slow-paced show, and that's fine, as it means it never feels like it drags.

I really liked it, especially Trish's expanded role. She certainly is a little hellcat.

So far I've watched DD S1, which was good, JJ S1, which I loved, Luke Cage which was good, and then DD S2 which was just OK... it kinda dragged.

I avoided Iron Fist due to the bad reviews, which also meant I had to skip the Defenders. Now JJ S2 is out, so I've been trying to watch Iron Fist. I'm about 7 episodes in and it's kinda ehhh. Not awful but not great.

Do I actually need to finish Iron Fist and the Defenders before I can watch JJ S2?

 Lance845 wrote:
They really do need to trim a little of the fat from the Marvel Netflix shows. They all follow the same format of every 4 episodes the story takes a turn and then a big finale in episode 13. They could probably be a tighter better 9-10 episode seasons and mix it up where the twists and turns take place in different seasons instead of the predictable patterns.

Yes. There is a reason that cable TV has 13 episode seasons, but there is no reason for Netflix to use that format, and they should ditch it. Virtually all of these shows would have fit well in 10 episodes.

I’d say give Defenders a whirl.

Whilst Ironfist is pretty awful, the character works much better in Defenders.

I won't say Iron fist is anything but the worst of them, but I don't think the worst of them is all that bad. I think Iron Fist takes a LONG time to get good. Longer then it should. And they REALLY missed the mark with the character.

Anyone who watches Iron Fist without knowing about the character would assume he was the IF because his hand glowed and not the other way around. They should have spent the whole first half of the show having him dodge around body guards and avoiding all the fights and then when he started fighting everyone should have just been running.

Remember in Dr Strange at the beginning Kaecilius and his crew kill that guy and then suddenly they get put in the mirror dimension on the street and the Ancient One is there. They see her, and they try to fight, but her magic and kung fu is too strong. They fight mostly to buy time. They are running.

Thats what Iron Fist should have been for regular martial arts. Once he decided to fight it should have just been people running. The 5 fingers of the hand are the only people who could possibly stand up to him in a fight and potentially win.

If they spent the entire first third of the season with him seeming all whiny and "But i'm the Iron fist" and then the Hand showed up and he was like "I AM the Iron Fist" and just started clearing the room everyone would have been way more on board with the character.

Just finished it today. Jessica Jones continues to be the best Netflix Mavel show. And I think that is mostly because it does break things up and mixes things around. It's not all abandoned warehouses and dark allys. Daredevil season 3 is going to really need to step outside of it's box if it's going to stay good.

Daredevil needs to get away from the whole Hand thing.

I feel that every time The Hand became prominent, the show dipped in quality.

Get Fisk out of prison for a start. He’s a brilliantly effective villain, and Daredevil needs that.

 Ouze wrote:
I avoided Iron Fist due to the bad reviews, which also meant I had to skip the Defenders. Now JJ S2 is out, so I've been trying to watch Iron Fist. I'm about 7 episodes in and it's kinda ehhh. Not awful but not great.

Do I actually need to finish Iron Fist and the Defenders before I can watch JJ S2?

Iron Fist is certainly a struggle. It's a shame to, because you can see that under the surface there's a good story and a great character, but it never comes to the surface except in very small bursts.

Defenders is mostly great. Kinda goes haywire in the final 2 episodes.

None of them are required for JJ Season 2, which doesn't even mention the events of the Defenders.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Daredevil needs to get away from the whole Hand thing.

I feel that every time The Hand became prominent, the show dipped in quality.

Get Fisk out of prison for a start. He’s a brilliantly effective villain, and Daredevil needs that.

Marvel tends to toss villains when they're done. The way the Defenders ended, I'm guessing The Hand is done. DD s3 seems like it's going to go the Devil in Cell Block D direction, seeing as Fisk seems to have an idea who Matt is now. Good chance to refocus on Fisk and bring in Bullseye.

I gave Punisher another shot and it's getting better as it goes on, which is nice change of direction for the Netflix shows. After that I'll give JJs2 a go.

The only series I haven't yet finished is Iron Fist. I have no regrets. I had no issues following the Defenders, even though I stopped Iron Fist about episode 8.

Finished JJ season 2 earlier today and absolutely loved it. These Marvel Netflix shows have been a lot of fun, I even enjoyed Iron Fist. Sadly Kristen Ritter hinted heavily a few days ago that Defenders may never come back and that broke my heart. For all its faults, Defenders was still a total blast and I loved watching the team come together. Hopefully they give it another go.

 -Loki- wrote:
Marvel tends to toss villains when they're done. The way the Defenders ended, I'm guessing The Hand is done. DD s3 seems like it's going to go the Devil in Cell Block D direction, seeing as Fisk seems to have an idea who Matt is now. Good chance to refocus on Fisk and bring in Bullseye.

I'm thinking more Born Again.

I enjoyed S1 of JJ so the idea of watching another without David Tennent screeching “JESSICAAAAAR!” every few minutes seems like a good thing to me.

Iron Fist was okay but the constant childlike behaviour/tantrums by IF was a bit grating. If this was a deliberate demonstration his growing up without a familythen it was poorly written and portrayed. Most of the secondary characters were far more interesting.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Marvel tends to toss villains when they're done. The way the Defenders ended, I'm guessing The Hand is done. DD s3 seems like it's going to go the Devil in Cell Block D direction, seeing as Fisk seems to have an idea who Matt is now. Good chance to refocus on Fisk and bring in Bullseye.

I'm thinking more Born Again.

That too, Charlie Cox said they would likely implement elements of Born Again in season 3. With Fisk in prison, they could do both arcs together, really. Could be overstuffing it, but could also give them the material they need for 13 episodes.

The best bits of the Marvel series have been the bits that aren't about superheroes. Punisher could be a straight-up drama without the Marvel characters, and the Jessica Jones is about who Jessica is, not how many cars she can lift. her abilities had almost nothing to do with season 1, and even in season 2, it was what she went through to get the powers rather than the powers themselves that were important. Likewise in Daredevl - the Fisk storyline in Season 1 was more interesting than the ninjas in season 2.

Interesting that JJ season 2 references the films more than any of the other series have recently. OK, it was only the talk of The Raft, and the suspension of civil rights for super-powered individuals, but at least it was mentioned. And presumably Jessica's not a fan of Spiderman.

The weak point in JJ 2 was Hogarth's plot; almost totally divorced from the rest of the season, and feels more like buildup for something further down the line. I almost think that her new firm is going to be the antagonist in season 3.

Just started and am about 5 episodes in.

I am very nervous that the theme of "killing your Past" seems to be a big part of the show so far. However, the first episode does a great job of setting up the themes and characters to come in a quick, tidy, and believable way.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I avoided Iron Fist due to the bad reviews, which also meant I had to skip the Defenders. Now JJ S2 is out, so I've been trying to watch Iron Fist. I'm about 7 episodes in and it's kinda ehhh. Not awful but not great.

Do I actually need to finish Iron Fist and the Defenders before I can watch JJ S2?

Iron Fist is certainly a struggle. It's a shame to, because you can see that under the surface there's a good story and a great character, but it never comes to the surface except in very small bursts.

Defenders is mostly great. Kinda goes haywire in the final 2 episodes.

None of them are required for JJ Season 2, which doesn't even mention the events of the Defenders.

That's good to know. I wound up sticking with IF, almost done with it.

As you say, it really could have been great but I think Finn Jones is either horribly miscast, or horribly written - not sure which. I liked him well enough in GoT so I'm leaning towards the latter.

Anyway, sorry for threadjacking at this point :/

There all intermixed. You cant really talk about one without at least mentioning the others.

I thi k its definitely poor writing. The trouble is hes not presented as beiing good enough at martial arts to be the iron fist. The iron fist is like the sorcerer supreme of martial arts. I never feel like he is that good.

The problem also comes from not giving him any sort costume or face covering, makes it harder to have a double who is good at martial arts do the fight scenes.

 Lance845 wrote:
There all intermixed. You cant really talk about one without at least mentioning the others.

I thi k its definitely poor writing. The trouble is hes not presented as beiing good enough at martial arts to be the iron fist. The iron fist is like the sorcerer supreme of martial arts. I never feel like he is that good.

I think in the Defenders it is mentioned that he hasn't fully completed his Martial Arts training, only barely started it. Regardless, he should definitely be better than he is portrayed as being. He should be Leagues above Daredevil. Reading about the past Iron Fists and some of the feats they pulled off makes me wonder how fethed the world is with Danny Rand as the new Iron Fist.

I honestly think Danny Rand was the worst cast of all of the Marvel Heroes. It was definitely my least favorite series and he was my least favorite character in The Defenders. Just, so much whining for somebody who is supposed to be spiritually enlightened. I don't get it.

Well, that's the point - he's not actually spiritually enlightened, he's still burdened with the memory of his parents' death and his survivor's guilt, and because he clings to those memories he also clings to childish aspects of his personality.

The whole point of the show is that you can't just "fix" someone's psychological damage by beating them with sticks and forcing them to memorise pat zen sentiment. To actually be Iron Fist Danny has to confront his past and mature as a person.

Now, there were some issues with the execution, but I don't think it's only down to the writing. With a better actor(with a better accent, eesh) the whiny bits could have been tempered a little, and the writers really should have included a few more scenes like the ones in the park with the homeless guy where Danny comes off as kind and innocent more than a whiny entitled brat.

Overall though I don't think it was as awful as some folk insist it was, and hopefully his appearance in Luke Cage s2 will "finish off" the initial development of Danny Rand and he can actually be Iron Fist if he ever gets a s2 of his own show(which I hope does happen even if only for the supporting cast, who were mostly great).

See, I think him getting enlightened and getting past his mental burdens is interesting. The character can grow that way. He doesn't need to get better at fighting he could just be becoming a more complete person and moving past his baggage.

He shouldn't be able to even do the trial to become the Iron Fist if he didn't complete his martial art training. Leagues above Daredevil is correct. Daredevil shouldn't even be able to lay a hand on him.

Defenders should have had a scene where Luke, Jessica, and Matt were fighting their way through the hand. They are all fighting like 4 or 5 ninja each and it's rough going. They win, but they are all panting and tired.Then a door opens and Danny comes in and he's not tired but in the room behind him is like 30 hand ninjas all unconscious/dead.

THATS how good the iron fist should be. He should be taking out double the regular people the others are combined without breaking a sweat.

I don't have a problem with him being naive. I don't have a problem with him not understanding why people are not impressed with him being the iron fist. To him it's like telling someone you won the gold medal in every event at the Olympics an them going... "The what?". His frustration and all that is great. It would ALL be FINE if at ANY point he was capable of backing it up. But he's not good enough.

Being the Iron Fist is not about skill, but who has been chosen and Marked by the Dragon. What criteria the Dragon uses may not be skill at martial arts, spiritual enlightenment, or some thing even tangible. It may just be based on an interpretation of destiny/potential..... or something.

I did not hate Iron Fist. His was the most obvious development arc. In fact, in the show you see him develop a lot, but still keep the central conflict in place.

In fact, I have liked all the Marvel TV shows for the most part. The secondary characters and the "Marvel New York" they all inhabit is interesting to me. However, I have always prefered my heroes to be "street level".

I've heard complaints that there was no big baddie like in season one but that's okay because this was a lot more pulp detective like and moody as hell. The writing was superb just as in season one and DD season one. I just wish they'd make her fly once in a while. That is one of her powers, after all.

Finished it up recently...

The writing and the acting was supurb imo... my only gripe was that at this stage, Marvel needed a 'big baddy'.

S1 was great because of David Tennet's character was a gripping bad guy, whereas in S2...


But, man... I'm crushing on Krysten Ritter!

I think that's why S1 of Dare Devil series was so good... because of Kingpin.