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Hey there. I'd like to move away from rulebook 40k but not too far away, if possible. Things that i'd like to have are:
1. Alternative activation rules that don't screw mellee, somehow work with deepstriking and don't force msu battery spam around a deathstar.
2. Terrain that works.

That's all we really need but it proved to be really hard to find. Anyone knows such systems that work with 40k?

Konflikt 40k

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/752344.page

It merges 40ks phases and d6 mechanics into a Bolt Action style alternating activation game. It's the closest to 40k while taking the best pieces of bolt action. I haven't played it yet myself, but thats because I am all for the other project.


Beyond the Gates of 40k

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/733472.page

This one swaps the d6 for a d12 with a simple conversion. (basically x2 -1 (6+ becomes 11+, 5+ becomes 9+, 4+ becomes 7+) which keeps the same success rates but provides more granularity for +-1 effects). It incorporates more of the bolt action style play and semi ditches the phase structure all together with the orders that can be issued to units. That being said it's all still really simple and just works with standard 40k. But it offers more granularity and makes for a much more tactical game. I personally think this is the best version of the game.

Both versions use something like these terrain rules.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/750334.page

Which look complicated at a glance bt are not. It is very easy and fluid in practice. Once you define your terrain it's simple to just trace your LoS and see what you can and cannot shoot and with what effect in play. (+1 sv or -1 to hit).

Used to play a lot of Diplomacy with the lads back in the day. The main gimmick for that game was the idea that all turns are simultaneous and had to be written down as proof. The actions were relatively simple, Move, Attack, Convoy or Support. It would be annoying in ridiculously large # of unit armies (looking at you Dark Eldar Court of the Archon) but it would be kind of cool if each player had to write down their movements before the movement phase and then make the moves all at once. Would be interesting if Initiatives came back into play, so that a faster unit could move 1" or 2 and start their charge before an enemy unit has a chance to fall back into the kill-zone of nearby allies. Realistically though, this would be much easier to achieve on a computer to regulate movement happening at the same time.


In my head, I imagine that units could have a number of actions based on their movement value or something. The only ones I can think of would be:

Move (1" movement per action)
Charge (Double Movement, no shooting this turn, must be towards explicit enemy unit(s))
Shoot (Each unit can shoot once per turn, but can choose which action phase to do it.)
Covering Fire (-1 to hit modifier for your unit and enemy unit halves their movement actions, becomes a normal shooting attack if enemy is charging)
Fall Back (Double Movement, has to be towards deployment edge)
Shooting Movement (1" move and 6+ to hit shooting)

If my Space Marines have a 6" movement, I can choose to use all 6 actions for movement, or I can use 2 actions to move them into cover and the other 4 to act as Covering Fire/Shooting, giving them a chance to cover the approach of their allied Assault Marines who are charging some enemy Havocs but are in the line of fire of an enemy unit of cultists or something. Or, they can fire into the swarm of Gaunts trying to charge them. If I the Gaunts don't become in line of sight until action phase 5 or 6, then I can either choose to shoot the carnifex the Space Marines saw during Phase 3 and 4, or they can hold their fire to wait for the Gaunts on 5 and 6. Or I can move 2, Shoot 2, and then charge 2, counter charging the Gaunts, Dawn of War Trailer style.

There would have to be separate rules for assaulting a defended building (enemy unit already in the building for 1 turn) and for two units entering the building at the same time. Sort of like a pseudo close combat phase as they fight room to room, ducking behind walls and cover. Outside of terrain however, if two units cross each others path, then they would be locked into melee for that turn, with falling back coming with the next movement phase, in which you can choose to have your models run down the enemy units (initiative could be a key factor once again).

I haven't fully hammered out how the phases would interact with each other, or if after 6" movement, if a unit hasn't shot yet, if they can still shoot or something. I'll come back later, gotta go to class, lol.

I've been experimenting with an alternating-activation mechanism for my skirmish project where the number of "activations" is more fluid, loosely: players take turns "activating" a unit at a time, but if you activate a character he may let you activate more than one unit that activation. How many units depends on the character (Guard heroes can activate a bunch of units, Marine heroes just a few, and Custodes heroes nobody), so the minimum number of activations to activate an entire army is reasonably constant but you've got the flexibility to stall if necessary and the limited range on heroes activating other units gives you a tactical trade-off between going first and spreading out.

I've been testing it in a skirmish environment where a unit gets one "activation" to move/shoot, or charge/fight and I don't have a deepstrike mechanic set up, but it seems to be working reasonably well at that scale. Could try scaling it up to the full-size game later.

 Lance845 wrote:
Konflikt 40k

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/752344.page

It merges 40ks phases and d6 mechanics into a Bolt Action style alternating activation game. It's the closest to 40k while taking the best pieces of bolt action. I haven't played it yet myself, but thats because I am all for the other project.


Beyond the Gates of 40k

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/733472.page

This one swaps the d6 for a d12 with a simple conversion. (basically x2 -1 (6+ becomes 11+, 5+ becomes 9+, 4+ becomes 7+) which keeps the same success rates but provides more granularity for +-1 effects). It incorporates more of the bolt action style play and semi ditches the phase structure all together with the orders that can be issued to units. That being said it's all still really simple and just works with standard 40k. But it offers more granularity and makes for a much more tactical game. I personally think this is the best version of the game.

Both versions use something like these terrain rules.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/750334.page

Which look complicated at a glance bt are not. It is very easy and fluid in practice. Once you define your terrain it's simple to just trace your LoS and see what you can and cannot shoot and with what effect in play. (+1 sv or -1 to hit).

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure the bag of tokens is a good idea though. It's open to exploiting by shooty deathstars with msu token batteries.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But we'll definitely try it out. D6 is the key factor of prefering this system to btgo40k

So, the main project I have been working over the last few months is called Warstack.

Current Rulesheet: https://tinyurl.com/y82ouyhl
Reference "Cheat-sheet:" https://tinyurl.com/ydaegqzm

I decided to go for making activation and interruption "resource-based" rather than randomized/die-bag ala Bolt Action. You use a competing resource mechanic that is used either for reserves, chain activations, or counter-interrupts, and interrupts resolve in a "stack" order ala Magic. The player with less unactivated units can skip until there's an equilibrium, to minimize taking "filler" units for pseudo-skip actions.

I haven't figured out the core statlines, but have been able to test this by plugging it into 40k and cutting the ROFs of most weapons in half. The main challenge is deciding how many Strategy Points players get per turn. Personally, I think something like one per 125-200 points is a good start; feel free to tweak from there and maybe throw in a few exceptions for how certain armies work (Ex: Tau pay 1 SP less for a unit within 6" of an attacked unit to shoot as a reaction, Orks get 1 SP back for each activation where they pull off a round of melee attacks, etc).

Then just alternate. You dont need to bother with the activation tokens if you dont want to.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
So, the main project I have been working over the last few months is called Warstack.

Current Rulesheet: https://tinyurl.com/y82ouyhl
Reference "Cheat-sheet:" https://tinyurl.com/ydaegqzm

I decided to go for making activation and interruption "resource-based" rather than randomized/die-bag ala Bolt Action. You use a competing resource mechanic that is used either for reserves, chain activations, or counter-interrupts, and interrupts resolve in a "stack" order ala Magic. The player with less unactivated units can skip until there's an equilibrium, to minimize taking "filler" units for pseudo-skip actions.

I haven't figured out the core statlines, but have been able to test this by plugging it into 40k and cutting the ROFs of most weapons in half. The main challenge is deciding how many Strategy Points players get per turn. Personally, I think something like one per 125-200 points is a good start; feel free to tweak from there and maybe throw in a few exceptions for how certain armies work (Ex: Tau pay 1 SP less for a unit within 6" of an attacked unit to shoot as a reaction, Orks get 1 SP back for each activation where they pull off a round of melee attacks, etc).

We'll have to test this out in tabletop simulator with you.

I see the common complaints about modding the game with activation options, namely "Well, you could build a list to game the system..."

This is all a bit of nonsense. If you're playing a self-created or borrowed modification for the game, it's a good chance you're playing it with 2-3 other people at most. You're not running it in a tournament. If one of the people in your small gaming group is the kind of person to try to game this modification (the goal of which is to make the game more enjoyable), then they're a douchebag - but they're probably going to be a douchebag however you play 40K. They're probably already busy gaming the hell out of the current 40K system as it is. Ignore this objection. The modifications you make when playing 40K are up to you and your buddies - ignore general sweeping internet arguments which don't apply to your or your group.

With an activation system there are two ways it can be done.
1. I activate my SM tactical squad..move/fire charge and its done for that turn. All it can do from now on is fight in melee/save.No sweepimg or overwacth as it has already been activated.
Or....
2. I activate my SM tactical squad..move/fire charge. But during the turn it can when it charged it can sweep advance,overwatch once as it can only do this once anyway.

Option 1 is best cause its turn is OVER AND DONE with...so tough. Option 2 means leaving counters around units specifying what iit has left to do.
I play 7th ed by the way.

What about Imperial Assault rules?

You alternate activations, but you still have rounds.
Each unit can only activate once a round. An activated unit goes through all of it's phases in order (except morale).
Once a unit is activated it is 'tapped' for that round, although it make defensive actions as normal (eg, saves, overwatch+fight back if charged, psychic defense).
If you have fewer activations remaining than your opponent, you may skip an activation.
Once all units have activated, you go through the morale phase for all units.
Then you do scoring for both players and advance to the next round.
The player who wins the roll gets to Activate first in Round 1 (initiative). Initiative swaps between players each turn, so the second player gets to Activate first in Round 2.
Special stuff (deep strike, disembarking, etc) occurs at the start of the round before anyone activates.



The only downside is that melee may end up too strong for a couple reasons.
1) Long attack range. E.g., if you have melee that can move 14", it can activate last in the 1st round, then first in the 2nd round, traveling 14"x2 then charge something from beyond their range to shoot.
2) Combat locking is stronger. If you charge a unit that already activated, the enemy wouldn't be able to shoot your guys until after an entire round went through.
3) Melee gets to fight more. In normal 40k a unit can only fight twice (once when they fight, and once when the enemy fights them). But with alternating activations a unit that multi-charged 3 Leman Russes that can't fall back would fight 4 times. Once on their activation, then once each on each of the enemies activations.

I'm not sure how #3 would impact things. It would make melee more important, but would also have pros and cons. It'd suck for a Dark Angel trying to send 5 min sized squads of Death Company against a blob of poxwalkers, but it'd be awesome for a Captain Slamguinius landing in the middle of 3 basilisks. It's possible that you may need to break out the fight phase into it's own step (like Morale is broken out).

This is the system I have been working on, it's a full-bore conversion based on a hybrid of 40K and bolt action.

Also included is a marine codex - very much a work in progress, but should give an idea of how I'm trying to streamline the actual units.

I've been wanting to experiment with adding an activation system kind of like in "By Fire and Sword". Here's a video that explains how turns roughly work.

What if Warhammer 40k had alternating activations??? check this out!!



Here is my take on what the rules would be like playing Warhammer 40k with alternating activations, but with a twist. Every unit in 40k gets 2 activations each and they can only take 6 stratagems from their desired codex, this does not effect pre-game strats. Everything is kept the same in terms of Game set up, the points cost of creating armies, all the data sheets etc the missions, even the terrain traits, however i would make sure any unit that gets a cover, is both -1 to shoot at and +1 to their armour save.

below is a summary of my own custom rules, that i have play tested till the cows come home, so give them a try and see what you think. I feel it makes the game a lot more strategy focused. oh and comments are welcome.

THE GAME TURN

This is how each battle turn will be played during my version.

At the beginning of every turn, prior to the Command phase is the initiative phase. Each player rolls off to try and seize the initiative for who starts the first activation. The winner can choose to go first or second.

Next is the Command phase, this is made up of the following sub-phases:

• Orders sub phase: Issue any special abilities/ orders or stratagems you have access to as well as regain any command points eligible to you.

• Psychic sub phase: play any or all the psychic abilities available to your Psyker.

• Litanies sub phase: Play any litanies you have available for your Chaplain.

• Reinforcement/ Reserves sub-phase. Bring on any or all your combat reserves.

After this step the players start by activating any or all their available units one at a time until all have been activated or removed as casualties. This then sets up the end of turn phase called the Turning point phase.

During the Turning point phase, the players start by taking any necessary Morale tests and removing any models who flee the battlefield due to attrition, this would be a good time to tally up all the points scored during that turn for any Primary and Secondary objectives successfully achieved.

To summarize the game turn:

• INITIATIVE PHASE

• COMMAND PHASE

• Orders sub-phase: play any abilities/ stratagems, orders.

• Psychic Sub-phase: play any or all psychic spells.

• Litanies Sub phase: Play any of the Chaplains litanies.

• Reinforcement/ Reserves Sub phase

• ACTIONS

• TURNING POINT PHASE’S

• Morale tests

• Take stock

• End of game turn.

The actions available for all the units are as follows:

• Normal Move (1AP): This unit moves up to its movement allowance on its datasheet.

• Advance (1AP) : Units that choose to make an Advance move can move their normal movement characteristic and then roll 1D6 and add that to the distance. If a unit decides to shoot or charge after an advance action has been made previously, the following rules apply: If the next action to be chosen should be a shoot action, then only Assault/Pistol type weapons can be used but at a -1 to hit. Rapid Fire and Heavy weapons cannot be used to fire with if they are carried by Infantry. Units that have advanced in a previous action and choose to charge as their next action can do so but suffer a -2“ to the charge roll.

• Shoot (1AP): The chosen unit gets to shoot its full allocated shots, however, if this unit has advanced in a previous action, or if it has already done a Shoot action then it will suffer -1 to its BS to hit.

• Charge & Fight (1AP) : The unit must roll 2D6 and add the amount together to see if the unit can get into engagement range (1” of the enemy unit it charges). If the unit fails to reach the enemy unit then the charge fails (command point re-roll anybody?). If the unit successfully gets into engagement range, the unit then piles in 3” and then gets to fight first in close quarters combat using the attacks and abilities available to that unit. (Units that have been charged into fight back once the charging unit has finished all its attacks, even if that unit has previously done all their actions. Alternatively, the charged unit can also choose to play the Counter-Offensive stratagem to steal the initiative and fight first if they have enough Command points remaining.) If the charging unit manages to destroy the enemy unit in the same turn it charged, it can consolidate 6” instead of the standard 3” but cannot end up within engagement range of another enemy unit.

• Fall back (1AP): The unit can choose to fall back, only if it is locked in close combat. Roll 2D6 and move the unit that distance in inches away from the enemy unit, and not within engagement range of other enemy units nearby. If a unit decides to fall back, then that unit cannot charge as its next action unless the unit has a special ability allowing it to do so, and if it chooses to do a shoot action as its next action then the shooting is resolved at BS 6+.

• Readied (2AP): Readied models/units are treated as having a window of opportunity to take their time to aim before shooting, but with the following benefits, +1 to BS skill, +1 to wound rolls and an improved Armour Penetration of -1. This action cannot be bettered than 2+ BS i.e., BS skill of 1 is not permitted

Reinforcements/ Reserves can only be deployed during the command phase of the turning point.
During the command phase you can choose to play as many of your reserves as you want if it isn’t in the first turning point of the game. The reserve unit or units must be placed on the battlefield in accordance with the turn they appear on and must be more than 9” away from all enemy units. Units deployed as reserves can only perform 1 action this turn. The First action is used for entering the battlefield. To determine which table edge, these units enter the battlefield, follow the below reference as a guide.
• Turn 2: Units must enter the table edge of the Players deployment zone only and has to be more than 9” away from any enemy models.
• Turn 3: Units can enter from their own deployment zone and any table edge if it isn’t the enemy deployment zone. Units must still be more than 9” away from enemy models.
• Turn 4&5: Units can enter from any table edge, including the enemy players deployment zone as long as they are more than 9” away from any enemy models.
Transports that are carrying Troops are eligible to make a disembark action for free during or after the transport’s actions. The units that have just disembarked can perform all their actions this turn; this does not apply to deep striking units.
Drop pods, these are treated slightly different. After they have landed, they can only perform 1 action for the rest of the game . Units disembarking from these are still able to use both actions when they enter the game when they are chosen to perform them.
Deep Striking units only get to perform 1 action on the turn they arrive on as this is classed as their first action, i.e., movement onto the battlefield. From the next turning point and onwards they have their full allocation of 2 actions.