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I like my white scars knock off chapter, I really do. I have played them in 8th and had fun, although they aren't great and their chapter traits etc were a disappointment (their trait is for a CC army, but none of the bikers in the codex are any good at CC, and the vets on bikes from index are ridiculously overpriced, and...really? I can't buy my master on his special bike??) Anyway, obviously no army comes from one edition into the next the same. I get it...and i do like the one Command strategy we get, usefull and appropriate (although I always seem to use it for my captain...).
My hope from Dakka...Please convince me these units are still viable at their price, because I can't see it...(Note, I am not mr' Tournament level effeciency player, but I do like my army to be competitive. That said, I run by the background etc, so want my army to stick with A white Scar theme, and am not adding any primaris into them.
FYI; My core army is: Capatain on bike, 16 bikers (2 with plasma, 2 with grav) A company Champion on bike (index), a LT with jump pack (who may become a chaplain or another librarian). 10 vanguard vets with librarian in jumpacks. 10 basic assault marines, 15-20 scouts, 2 dreads (shooty, CC), and 5 devs 3 with missile launchers. (i didnt list most of the gear)

Land Speeeders: The cost to use ratio of the multi-melta is miserable this edition. So the zoom and boom a vehicle is out, and the heavy bolter option is weak. There are simply too many things for anti-vehicle (or simply multi wound shots) for these to be worth it IMO.

Land Speeder Storms: Scouts already set-up in range of any weapon or charge you want...so the transport option sucks now (since you can't move and charge) So, you are really paying for the shoot from the transport plus its weapons. Seems like too much for me, since if you are charged, the speeder can fall back and shoot but the marines inside cannot. Is it worth its cost just to give some protection to 5 models who themselves lack much damage output? (and don't get me wrong, I love my scouts and take them all the time...shotguns to the face is just too fun regardless if it does massive damage)

Scout bikers: I'm not as against these as other things here. They are a little cheaper than bikes, get the same firepower, and have extra move plus the combat knives, so, probably an equal out. However...someone tell me how that grenade launcher upgrade can cost actual points??? Changing a rapid fire 2 weapon for a single grenade seems insane. Let me start by saying I am a decent player, so the 24" range is meaningless, remember, scout bikes move 16", so the 4 shot range of their bike guns is really 28"...plenty. I have never needed to shoot something more than 12" away with my scout bikers) so we are down to the krak grenade. A single strength 6 shot doing d3 wounds with some AP is something, but does it outrun the 4 shots from bolters by that much? My math doesn't really hold this up to the level I want. (the Krak grenade is better against T5+ by my math, otherwise meh. against T4 Save 3+ models they do exactly the same number of wounds) Why am I paying good points for this?

The attack bike: Same issue as the land speeder for me. Too much for what it does. Its multi-wounds mean little to me, as anything with more than 2 wounds is ALWAYS a target for a heavy weapon. Sure, in a unit of bikes its protected better or can be used as wound sponge, but the points aren't worth this for me. It costs 2 bikers so isn't really any extra wounds.

Why am I wasting our time? Well...I like my white scars and have these units available. So I am stuck in the dilemma; replace with different or play them anyway because I have them. Just hoping for more input from different angles, as we humans frequently rut ourselves into We are smart, therefore our thought process is the best way...

Scout bikers are freaking amazing...Twinlinked boltgun + 2 S4 Shotgun shots(S5 at half range) is not "same firepower" as normal bikes.

Agree on the rest though

Yeah, I do like the scout bikers shooting...but regular bikers have a pistol so its only 1 extra shot ( and the shotgun is+1 S though, worthwhile)
I have really debated buying one of my units of 8 bikers as scouts. I lose the special weapons sadly, but save a few points which could upgrade my regular assault marines to vanguard vets ( 2 pts for +1 attack seems worthwhile)

edwardmyst wrote:
Yeah, I do like the scout bikers shooting...but regular bikers have a pistol so its only 1 extra shot ( and the shotgun is+1 S though, worthwhile)
I have really debated buying one of my units of 8 bikers as scouts. I lose the special weapons sadly, but save a few points which could upgrade my regular assault marines to vanguard vets ( 2 pts for +1 attack seems worthwhile)

Pistol is worthless when shooting with twinlinked boltgun and you're actually losing atleast double the firepower when going with normal bikers (shotguns are ASSAULT 2)

You have to choose between firing pistols, and firing any other type of weapon.

Good point, I'd forgotten the pistol rule now. Scout bikers looking better and better...just losing the special weapons I guess

If you prefer bikes for shooting rather than melee, consider using ultramarines chapter tactics. Those rules fit bikers alot more than white scars by letting you disengege and shoot.

The grenade launcher is pretty underwhelming I admit, but those d3 dmg and - 1ap have their moments against units like wraithguard, tyranid warriors and meganobs.

If you want to use the white scars tactics, get meltabombs on your assult marines if they have jump packs. They can disengage, throw the bomv (because of fly) andthen charge agan (white scars tactics)

A white scar sucessors with Dreadnoughts?!

Scout bikes are literally the best white scar unit right now. Use a large squad with our strat an the get 36" threat range for max shooting (54-58 S 4/5 shots). They get 2 attacks in close combat, a strat to deal mortal wounds when they fall back. If you need to be a bit more competitive ally in Dark angels to double down on advance and fire bikes. Sticking with white scars I think jump infantry are desirable. You said no primaries but aggressors are also quite good.

I know Galas...But I have these two really great conversions of dreads into mongol warriors (see my gallery for Obadai...)

Probably going to convert one set of bikers into Scouts. My problem wasn't really with scouts per se...just that stupid grenade launcher upgrade.

edwardmyst wrote:
....

Probably going to convert one set of bikers into Scouts. My problem wasn't really with scouts per se...just that stupid grenade launcher upgrade.

You can run them without the upgrade. Bare bones scout bikers are probably the best way to field them.

I’d say just a storm bolter on the sarge is probably best.