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Made in us
Stubborn Prosecutor





Realized I was about to post this suggestion in two seperate threads and figured I'd just put it here.

We are getting a lot of complaints about first turn advantage. It's pretty obvious that a lot of armies can carve 500+pts of enemy models out in their first turn, leading to a lot of frustration when players bring and deploy models that never even get to move. A lto of this is due to the large movement and weapon ranges in the game and it reminded me of Team Yankee, which often doubles down on beyond the board ranges and turn 1-2 point blank movement. It's also a D6 game, altough with fewer stacking modifiers.

One of the rules I love in the game is that the defender (the player that goes second) gets a blanket +1 cover save on their models until their first turn. It's fluffy for first contact and really mitigates turn one steamrollers. The first players still gets their alpha strike, but the mitigated damage means the second player can often counter just as hard.

My proposed rule:
The second player's models gain an automatic +1 save bonus until the start of their first round.

I think this could do a good job of making the choice of going first or second a viable decision to make after considering terrain, your list, and your opponent's list.

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So space marines who go first become 2+ models and tyranids become 5+.

I don't think this works like you would want it to work.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
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In My Lab

And Daemons get shafted-which, okay, sure, Nurgle and Tzeentch are pretty well off, they can probably live without another bonus. But what about Slaanesh daemons?

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This also seems to assume that alpha striking is exclusively the purview of shooting armies. Blood Angels plop down next to you on turn 1. This would just let them do so with 2+ armor.



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Also. Any person worth their salt would just run shield units and actually prepare their table quarter so they dont get alpha striked with their most expensive/important unit. Only an idiot doesn't know how to defend against alpha strikes
   
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Italy

I'd just give a -1 to hit penalty in the shooting phase to all the units that belong to the player that starts first. I'd also cap the negative modifiers at a maximum of -2, with 6s that hit anyway.

 
   
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They need to go back to 5th edition style deployment where one guy deploys everything first and then goes first. It allows the second guy to deploy everything in a safe manner and counter the other guys deployment to the max extent possible while giving up first turn. You can add stratagems that allow the first guy to redeploy D3 or D6 units or the second guy to move and shoot with D3 or D6 units before first turn for a command point cost to add a little uncertainty.
   
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ComradeRed1308 wrote:
They need to go back to 5th edition style deployment where one guy deploys everything first and then goes first. It allows the second guy to deploy everything in a safe manner and counter the other guys deployment to the max extent possible while giving up first turn. You can add stratagems that allow the first guy to redeploy D3 or D6 units or the second guy to move and shoot with D3 or D6 units before first turn for a command point cost to add a little uncertainty.


Makes sense. Been recently playing 2500 vs Necrons and lost 700 during first turn...

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 Lance845 wrote:
So space marines who go first become 2+ models and tyranids become 5+.

I don't think this works like you would want it to work.


While I don't really agree with the idea posited in the OP, technically yes...as each unit receives a 16% increase in their saving throw. Their starting saving throw is a completely unrelated matter, a benefit they would have - in theory- already paid for.

Back in 2nd edition there was a version of this. Units deployed properly in cover could declare they were starting the game hiding (making it incredibly difficult to see or target them). It was a bit of a help if you remembered to do it.
   
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ComradeRed1308 wrote:
They need to go back to 5th edition style deployment where one guy deploys everything first and then goes first. It allows the second guy to deploy everything in a safe manner and counter the other guys deployment to the max extent possible while giving up first turn. You can add stratagems that allow the first guy to redeploy D3 or D6 units or the second guy to move and shoot with D3 or D6 units before first turn for a command point cost to add a little uncertainty.
I agree with this. The guy that knows he's going 2nd should be given the benefit of deploying accordingly.

Certain units with special deployment rules (i.e. scouts, rangers) may be allowed to deploy out of turn before the 1st player puts his units down.

it would be interesting if there was a universal stratagem that allows you to modify your seize roll - to allow the second player to deploy for a blitz and roll & hope for the best.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/12 18:17:15


 
   
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mchammadad wrote:
Also. Any person worth their salt would just run shield units and actually prepare their table quarter so they dont get alpha striked with their most expensive/important unit. Only an idiot doesn't know how to defend against alpha strikes


Of course that only helps against DS and assault alpha strike. Does nothing against long range variant of alpha strike though.

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Longtime Dakkanaut




Not noticed that +1 in the first turn, will have to dig the book out again and maybe a T-72 will live longer than the enemies first turn. Everything being able to start in foxholes is good though, and gone to ground if it is concealed

FoW V3 had a concept of a "Mobile Battle" that was good though, the player with the first turn on their first turn was unable to fire indirect artillery or call in air support - essentially before anything that could drop a template the player going second would have a chance to move. Also anything firing on the first turn counted as moving.

40k lacks the "foxholes" and "gone to ground" mechanic, though it would benefit from both:

Foxholes a unit that does not move may elect to dig in, a leadership test on its profile leadership without modifiers if passed means the unit is now dug in and counts as being in cover (infantry units only), the unit counts as having moved for the purposes of shooting

Gone to Ground a unit that does not move and has the benefit of cover is at -1 to hit against shooting attacks made from 9" or further away

Then on the first player turn all units count as having moved their maximum distance for the purposes of them firing only, and no unit may fire indirectly at a target out of line of sight.


Mitigates the firing advantage on the first turn, and allows units that are tasked with defending ground to take steps to get better at it by creating a temporary defensive position.

Would also suggest a blanket prohibition on the player with the first turn being able to declare charges, again no charges until both players have had a chance to move and shoot
   
 
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