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Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA


One of my favorite games since childhood has been the truly unique Fireball Island (I've still got my original!). But Restoration Games has just launched a Kickstarter for their new, updated take on the board & game and it looks pretty sweet.

I'm all in, and if you're anything like me, you'll want to pick this bad boy up too!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/restorationgames/fireball-island-80s-board-game-reignited-and-resto/description

The only thing I'm not totally sold on right now is the ship expansion that is essentially an extra board that you'll have to keep in a separate box. It seems like it just adds more of essentially the same, so having that extra box doesn't seem like it will be worth it.


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





Backer #891 here, and that's with pledging within the first hour.

You know, the entire time it took for them to fund the damn thing

I like how the original "Indiana Jones" flavor has expanded to include a sort of obliviously, cartoonishly uncaring Jurassic Park theme. Not that I don't miss the idea of making my way across an uncharted island and outwitting fellow adventurers to steal a jewel bigger than my entire body, that was a great concept, but there's something about the idea of a resort company unwilling to send the helicopter back to pick you up until you've taken your contractually obligated three publicity selfies.

No matter how many times Vul-Kar fireballs you while you're doing it.
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

Nifty, just backed it. Wonder if they'll (or someone else) do a remake of the old Dark Tower boardgame?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/04 14:10:15


"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

I'm in for a buck so far, as I always wanted (but never got) the game when I was a kid.

I don't know if I'll end up jumping all in, or just wait to snag it at retail with a markup. I've been burned on enough Kickstarters that one for ~$200 Canadian and what seems like a 'tempting fate' approach to a time frame for delivery is just asked to get held up for an extra quarter or two.
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






The creators have made retail games (eg. Stop Thief), and, from the BGG threads, already committed to retail sales. But, if you have access to OLGS discounts (many internationals don't), and only want the base game for now, you're better off retail. The creators, in fact, said they would be perfectly happy if you bought retail because their goal with this game are long-term retail sales, not just a one-shot KS. The KS does get you the non-retail Treasure Trove, which will be available on their website.

Crimson Scales and Wildspire Miniatures thread on Reaper! : https://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/103935-wildspire-miniatures-thread/ 
   
Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

Thanks for the heads up. I'll probably stay in for a buck as a teip and to be able to comment/get easy updates, and knowing there's little chance of missing out would help that decision if I decide to wait (especially with another big KS I'm looking forward to in June).
   
Made in ca
Dipping With Wood Stain






I'm in for the base game. The expansions don't seem to add much for the price.
   
Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

On further musing, backing for the base game may indeed end up being my sweet spot. Base price plus the treasure trove expansion, plus shipping, compared to retail plus the TT plus shipping is probably going to be at least within the ballpark of one another.

$80 US (~$100 Canadian) for the game plus the 'exclusive' seems like a pretty reasonable price. ~170 CAD for the whole thing with the same shipping price is tempting, if a bit more than I really want to spend in the months leading up to another Dwarven Forge campaign, which I'm pretty much contractually obligated to throw a couple hundred at as well.

More to muse over for sure, but they're still chugging along at a good pace, and there's over 3 weeks left yet.
   
Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik






Minneapolis, MN

I'm a board gamer now, having gotten rid of my lead mountain.

And after going through the intial phase of needing to own all expansions to board games I love, I have come to the following conclusion.

Good designs generally speak for themselves and expansions aren't needed and often actually make the game worse.

KS's that have new designs that you can't play before knowing if an expansion s worthwhile or not is especially egregious money making attempts.

That said, I am in for the base game. If the game turns out to be awesome after playing it and then trying out expansions at retail, then I'll buy.

It's great to have fireball island back, as my love for fun thematic games is strong.

And as Yakface used to remark on in a different lifetime in the Off-Topic forum, fireball island makes a great drinking game. He's right.

   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA


Ever since I watched this palythrough video, I've been a bit shaken on the redesign, and am not sure whether I will stick with my all-in pledge or perhaps pull out completely:




There are a few big issues that concern me, but chief among them is that in the previous iteration of the game, the fireballs themselves were often, if not primarily, a tactical weapon. Sure, you could just roll a '1' and have to fireball some random people, but when it came to playing a Fireball card, good players always waited to roll a fireball to stop another player from reaching one of the two main goals of the game (capturing the jewel or stopping someone with the jewel from escaping the island).

Because there were those two very identifiable goals, everyone playing knew that it was a good idea to fireball someone who was going to achieve them, and therefore those fireball rolls became super important, and the success or failure of those rolls had tension...the player trying to accomplish the goal praying that the fireball doesn't hit him/her and the other players praying that the guy/gal trying to accomplish the goal does get hit. In other words, these would become those moments where everyone at the table would stand up in anticipation waiting to see the result of the roll and would cheer crazily either way.

And part of the reason that hitting someone with a fireball was so tactical is because everyone knew and understood the ramifications of being fireballed. Not only were you guaranteed to get get pushed all the way back down into a smolder pit, you also lost a turn and were prohibited from playing any cards while in the smolder pit. So another big tactical reason people would choose to fireball was to stop another player from being able to play their cards...that's often a tactic a player with the jewel trying to cross the bridges would employ: fireball as many other players as possible, so that they will be unable to play cards while the player in the lead is stuck crossing the bridges.

In this new game, it seems like not only are there way more fireballs rolled in general (or other types of similar 'attack' actions), but I'm having trouble seeing how any of these fireballs/snakes/bees/tiger/boulder have much in the way of tactical uses. Yes, you get to steal a treasure form the person you knock down (which seems to be their main function), but with all the objectives spread throughout the island, I'm not sure it will ever make tactical sense to hit another player because they're in a certain area or heading for something specific. Especially because players stand right back up where they fall, which means in some cases you can't count on really ANY negative movement effects as a result of your roll.

Instead, it seems more like you'll just want to hit the person who has the most treasures at any given time (so you can steal one) regardless of where they are on the board. In other words, where your opponents are on the table doesn't really seem to be all that important, just whether or not they have the most treasures and whether they're in a position where they can be hit by an 'attack'. If that is indeed the case, then I have a hard time seeing where any particular 'roll' will be stand up and take notice moment. Yeah, people will cheer when pieces get flung in funny ways after being hit by a fireball, but unless there are real stakes, there won't be the same kind of emotional excitement that you get from those 'important' fireball rolls of the original game.

On top of that, seeing how their board responds to the fireball/bee/snake/boulder rolls, has given me a new appreciation for the elegant design of the original board. I hope some of what I'm seeing is because of the prototype plastic they used for this sample board, but I'm not entirely sure it is. I think a LOT of what I'm seeing is more from the fact that they made this new island taller (which makes the pathways steeper) and because they made so many different branching paths, none of them are really designed/curated to create visually pleasant fireball rolls.

Contrast this with the original board, where the entire thing was clearly meticulously designed to make each and every fireball roll something interesting to watch. For example, on the roll down the river (hitting the second bridge), you watch the fireball roll for a second or two before it hits the bridge, giving players a few moments of anticipation as the marble rolls. With the new board, the roll into the bridge happens almost immediately after the fireball leaves Vul-kar and lacks any real visual appeal.

On the original board, there was one roll from Vul-kar designed to hit a second marble (intentionally) causing 2 marbles to roll anytime you chose to roll the fireball down that path. Also on the original board, there was one fireall path designed to roll down a path with 2 switchbacks...a very interesting/cool roll that always impressed new players...and also had a very slim chance to miss one of the switchbacks and roll a different direction than intended. Wth the new board, I'm not sure I see any type of curated paths designed to create a cool fireball roll. I'm not even sure any of the paths are designed to trigger multiple fireballs. Certainly during that video I saw multiple marbles triggered by something rolled, but I'm not sure if that's because of an accident with the sheer numbers of marbles they've crammed onto the board or because it was intentionally designed that way.

I mean, I kind of lost track of the number of times fireballs and snakes (especially snakes) were accidentally triggered during this game. FI always had some issues with player knocking over other players as they moved, but now with all these treasure tokens & mini snake marbles sitting on the board at all times, it just seems like things are going to be getting knocked over constantly.

That's the other thing I'm really appreciating about the original board now...it wasn't afraid to leave spaces on the board for 'stuff' that needed to be there. The jewel holder (black hexagon token) had its own little recessed space. The smolder pits were all recessed areas giving you a place to put downed player models to keep things tidy. On the new board, they've aimed to cram in so many different pathways, the consequence of that is there is little to no 'dead' space available. All the treasure tokens seem (from what I can see in the video) to be sitting just on flat raised surfaces (no indentation to help them stay in place), which makes them really easy to be knocked off, either accidentally by a player's hand, by swarms of bees/snakes rolling by, or even just by the vibrations caused by marbles being rolled.

But I think the loss of the smolder pits is what bums me out the most. I agree with the new designers that players losing a turn when they've been fireballed was probably not the most enjoyable game mechanic (though it never did bother me as a player, to be honest), I think getting rid of the smolder pits and having players get right back up and continue on from where they are is a terrible mistake. Not only does it get rid of so much of the tactical play of rolling a fireball in the original game (knowing you were going to knock a player down the path to a specific smolder pit), it also helped to keep the pathways clear of downed players (thereby allowing further fireballs to get other people that were previously blocked by another player in front of them).

So yeah...I'm concerned. I don't want to bomb their KS comments with negativity about this, but I really feel like they may have flubbed this game up. I know people are testing it and loving it, but I wonder how much of that is just because its something 'new' and of course rolling marbles and hitting stuff with them is always going to be fun. I'm just concerned that the changes they've made to 'modernize' it may have made it actually not that much of longterm fun after the novelty of rolling marbles wears off. The original, for being so linear and luck-based still had a lot of card strategy which gave the game enough legs that I still play it to this day. I'm not sure I'll be able to say that about the new version!



I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

 yakface wrote:
I don't want to bomb their KS comments with negativity about this, but I really feel like they may have flubbed this game up.


seriously?

 yakface wrote:
I know people are testing it and loving it, but I wonder how much of that is just because its something 'new' and of course rolling marbles and hitting stuff with them is always going to be fun. I'm just concerned that the changes they've made to 'modernize' it may have made it actually not that much of longterm fun after the novelty of rolling marbles wears off. The original, for being so linear and luck-based still had a lot of card strategy which gave the game enough legs that I still play it to this day. I'm not sure I'll be able to say that about the new version!


Seems like the changes they made have been well received by playtesters?

Maybe the designers aren't wearing rose-tinted glasses and are creating a new game with a larger variety of strategies than the same two that existed in the original? The original is so well-loved because it's asburd, but that is it's main hook. It's got a lot of nostalgia putting it on a pedestal, not great game design. (cough, Warhammer Quest '95, cough)

Sounds like you want the original, and merely want an update to be the original with a fresh coat of paint.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/09 15:14:17


"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





I do agree that there seems to be a little 'messiness', but I think a lot of that comes from the expansions. I'd be very interested to see what a game without five billion small marbles rattling around the board plays like. There's certainly something to be said for dumping a hive full of bees down the board, but it does make things feel a little more cluttered.

As I understand it, when you get fireballed, you don't do back to the space that you were standing on; it knocks you back, albeit in a less-predictable way than it would have with a smoulder pit. Fireballing someone to keep them from getting to the helipad or maybe even ward them off while they're trying to steal the jewel from you seems like a valid tactic.
   
Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik






Minneapolis, MN

The zillion marbles may be fun, but it's also the main reason I'm refraining from the expansions.

On the subject of the redesign, I agree with Judgedoug that it seems Yakface is looking for a slightly fresher repaint of the original.

But I also happen to know that Jon played a lot of FI, so his expectations are going to be vastly different to most people who don't own and/or rarely if ever played fireball Island.

From what I gather with discussions I've had with Daviau is that he wanted to know what the majority of people recalled about fireball island that they enjoyed. What made it fun for them. And he took that and designed around that a bit. It may seem like design by committee, and in some ways it is.

I won't say that the game is better or worse, and I've had arguments with people when they reduce FI to little more than candyland. Such statements lack imagination and have only cursory accuracy.
But from what I've seen without all the expansions added to the game that it has the heart of the original with some design tweaks.

Forcing collection is snapshots throughout the board before you can leave at least somewhat mimics the disadvantage of hitting the smolder pit.

I will say I am glad it is not a straight reprint. I can already buy that.

   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA

 judgedoug wrote:
 yakface wrote:
I don't want to bomb their KS comments with negativity about this, but I really feel like they may have flubbed this game up.


seriously?

Yes, I'm serious. While I obviously feel that my criticisms may be valid, I also recognize that they are based upon issues that cannot possibly be changed in the new game even in the unlikely scenario that I could get the designers to agree with my points. Therefore, I didn't want to post this stuff on the KS comments and instead just did a little venting in a relatively safe space (Dakka) that won't drag anybody's enthusiasm down in the KS comment section.

 yakface wrote:
I know people are testing it and loving it, but I wonder how much of that is just because its something 'new' and of course rolling marbles and hitting stuff with them is always going to be fun. I'm just concerned that the changes they've made to 'modernize' it may have made it actually not that much of longterm fun after the novelty of rolling marbles wears off. The original, for being so linear and luck-based still had a lot of card strategy which gave the game enough legs that I still play it to this day. I'm not sure I'll be able to say that about the new version!


Seems like the changes they made have been well received by playtesters?

Maybe the designers aren't wearing rose-tinted glasses and are creating a new game with a larger variety of strategies than the same two that existed in the original? The original is so well-loved because it's asburd, but that is it's main hook. It's got a lot of nostalgia putting it on a pedestal, not great game design. (cough, Warhammer Quest '95, cough)

Sounds like you want the original, and merely want an update to be the original with a fresh coat of paint.

Yep, I recognize that people who have played it on the road tour have definitely enjoyed the game. However, my whole area of concern stemmed quite a bit from the fact that although your first few playthroughs of a game like this are *always* going to be positive, after that novelty wears off will the game still stand up? I bought the Rampage board game (now called Meeple City Madness, I think) because I absolutely loved it the first time I tried it, and thought it was amazing. However, after playing it about 5-10 times I quickly realized that the game doesn't really have much in the way of tactical depth that you can learn/repeat, and therefore the game now only ever sees the light of day in my house when someone who has never tried the game before comes over.

I have played the original Fireball island literally hundreds of times, and I can safely say in my case it is not nostalgia that makes me love it. I can certainly recognize its faults and foibles, but as I said, some of what I saw that gave me concern in the new playthrough video has made me really appreciate some of its design greatness as well.

I'm definitely not looking or wanting the same version of the game made again. I still have my old game in perfect working order so I can bust it out anytime I want to play it. I definitely am looking for an updated version of the game, which this is. I am just a bit *concerned* with what I saw, that some of the magic that the original game did have might actually have been accidentally lost in the update. I do hope that I'm wrong, and there's still a lot of the game rules we can't see on the KS page in the form of the action cards and the souvenir cards, both of which I'm sure are not finalized yet.

I'm not pulling my pledge yet, and I'm hopeful that I'll see some more stuff revealed during the KS that will bolster my confidence even further.


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

@Yakface: I can understand not wanting to go to the KS comments, but have you considered sending them this critique in the form of a message on Kickstarter? I had a small concern about the campaign, and sent them a message about it, which was responded to within a few days (entirely reasonable given the way this is blowing up, in the comments and in private messages alike, I'm sure).

Even if they don't agree, it sounds like you have a lot of passion for the original game, and took the time to craft reasonable explanations for what you see as potential issues or negative changes. Maybe they've already addressed some, maybe their playtest team flubbed things on one of these issues. I believe they've already planned an adjustment to the board based on KS Comment feedback, so it doesn't seem to be too late for at least minor adjustments. A little recessed space for tokens or bits might be just the kind of thing they could rectify before going into full production.

I have nostalgia for the game purely as something I thought was awesome as a kid but never got to pick up, and I don't think I even got to play it. As someone who clearly has a lot of experience with it, I'd hope they'd at least listen to your critique, even if they don't agree with it.
   
Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik






Minneapolis, MN

I think it's time to pull my pledge.

I like games such as this, yet I'm going to wait for retail.

Reviews will benefit consumers, and the allure of treasure trove card content or new marbles has no FOMO hold on me. In fact, I doubt I'd even like much of the proposed content.

But they did state that they are raising the price of the retail game $5. And while that increase isn't much, they did make that statement in the paragraph after mansplaining economies of scale.

I find all that intellectually insulting, so I'll be making sure some middle man gets a portion of the pie when I buy at a discount with free shipping from Amazon or whatever. If I do bother buying it at retail.

   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA

 Hellfury wrote:
I think it's time to pull my pledge.

I like games such as this, yet I'm going to wait for retail.

Reviews will benefit consumers, and the allure of treasure trove card content or new marbles has no FOMO hold on me. In fact, I doubt I'd even like much of the proposed content.

But they did state that they are raising the price of the retail game $5. And while that increase isn't much, they did make that statement in the paragraph after mansplaining economies of scale.

I find all that intellectually insulting, so I'll be making sure some middle man gets a portion of the pie when I buy at a discount with free shipping from Amazon or whatever. If I do bother buying it at retail.

I get that point of view, for sure. For the most part, I'm over backing Kickstarters, especially ones like this that are clearly getting to retail no matter what. I do actually respect them for sticking to their guns and not really offering KS exclusives (as those tend to be very divisive once the game is actually in retail and those rewards can't be obtained except through ebay), but that choice also makes it easier for people to choose to wait for retail (like yourself).

If this weren't a remake of like my favorite board game of all time, I'd probably be waiting for retail as well.

---

I've been thinking about my concerns some more, and I think a lot of them may have been heightened by the fact that the playtest in that video was giving +3 movement to every action card played (presumably as a way to speed the game up). If that '+3' bonus wasn't there, then I'm guessing that knocking people a few spaces back with fireball might actually end up being a viable strategy to prevent them from reaching a treasure you know they're going for. I won't know for sure unless they show more of their action cards, but I'm hoping they make it so that any action card which launches a fireball (or something similar) has a pretty low movement. The one example action card they have on the KS page is a 'Move 8' and roll 1 ember fireball, so that's too reassuring (as I feel like moving 8 spaces is pretty darn far to also be able to roll a fireball)...but hopefully those cards are not finalized and they're still testing things and deciding what works best for the game.


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik






Minneapolis, MN

I actually believe it will be a better game than the original. And not because of pedigree of the design team and such.

But because the lack of certainty is increased.

The fireballs don't necessarily go as planned, and I find that taste of randomness alluring.

Games with such design ethos tend to be really good social lubricant games. They can even form bonds because of the stories you can tell about them.

This is why thematic games using "take that" and offer a chance for best laid plans to go haywire offer legit laugh out loud fun. As long as all players are of a similar mindset to appreciate what I have long called "mutually assured schadenfreude".

Survive, Dungeonquest, Wiz-War are excellent examples of the Good ol days being given a new lease on contemporary gameplay.

I think that's the point of games such as Rampage as well. Tactics and strategy are nonexistent, but when you consider that it is a kaiju themed dexterity game, it's hard to imagine it as anything other than just a toy for grownups to have fun twiddling around with.

The engineering of the Fireball Island board to allow an acceptable amount of agency loss could well be it's major cause for success once copies are in the wild.

   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Creators want retail support, so they're fine if you buy it retail.

Retailers take a *much* bigger cut than the KS discount, but, obviously, if you want your product to be sold long term, you're thinking retail, not KS. Some projects are only KSE, so are much better values than retail would be (or rather, are so deluxified that their MSRP would price themselves out of the retail market).

Crimson Scales and Wildspire Miniatures thread on Reaper! : https://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/103935-wildspire-miniatures-thread/ 
   
Made in il
Fresh-Faced New User




Looks awsome!
   
 
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