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Tyranids vs Space Marines [2,000pts] - game April 21th, lists and pre-game thoughts  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

Hello everybody,
for my first battle report here on DakkaDakka, I am to play my good old Space Marine army agaisnt my friend's tyranid swarm. He is a better player than me, I have to admit it, and I struggled against his hordes, but I think this list can and will handle them.

My list:

Spoiler:


Ultramarines Chapter Tactics, 9CP, 2 detachments

Battalion 1

==HQ==

Captain w/ ump pack, teeth of Terra, plasma pistol
Librarian w/ bolt pistol, force sword, jump pack

==TROOPS==

Scouts: 5 scouts w/ shotguns
Scouts: 5 scouts w/ boltguns
Scouts: 5 scouts w/ bolt pistols and combat blades

==FAST ATTACKS==

Scout bike squad: 6 bikers w/ shotguns and twin-linked bolters

==HEAVY==

Devastator squad: 7 marines w/ 4 missiles launchers and 3 bolters
1 thunderfire

Battalion 2:

==HQ==

Lieutenant
Sergeant Chronus

==ELITES==

Vanguards veterans: 10 veterans w/ bolt pistols and chainswords

==TROOPS==

Scout squad: 5 scouts w/ snipers
Tactical squad: 5 marines w/ 1 combi plasma, 1 plasma rifle
Tactical squad: 5 marines w/ 1 combi plasma, 1 plasma rifle

==HEAVY==

1 predator w/ lascannons, predator autocannon and HK missile
1 predator w/ lascannons, predator autocannon and HK missile

==TRANSPORTS==
1 razorback twin linked asscannons
1 razorback twin linked asscannons




His list:
Spoiler:

Kraken hive-fleet, 6CP, 1 battalion

==HQ==

Winged hive tyrant w/ twin-linked devourers
Winged hive tyrant w/ twin-linked devourers
Broodlord
Neurothrope

==HEAVY==

Exocrine
Trygon
Carnifex: 3 carnifex w/ close combat weapons

==TROOPS==

Termagaunts: 20 termagaunts w/ devourers
Hormagaunts 30 hormagaunts
Genestealers: 20 genestealers

==FAST==
20 gargoyles



Thoughts: he is quick. Like, real quick. With have-fleet kraken adaptation, the stratagem and several deep striking units, he can be on my T1. This is why I have a thunderfire (tremor stratagem) and a big scout screen. I think this time, I can prevent him from assaulting me T1 and maybe even T2. I am confident I have enough power to kill all his gaunts, but I can't see how to handle his tyrants, and I have only 1 librarian to deny his powers. He knows his list very well, he has been using it for months (he expanded it but it is still pretty much the same). I just bought several units from mine, so...
Overall, I think I stand a good opportunity to win, but I would like to practice this list a little before the fight !


EDIT: I had forgot to write my two assault cannons razorback into my list, here they are !

This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2018/04/14 19:48:51


   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator




Columbus

You are short a troop unit on your second battalion!

Never argue with an idiot you just lower yourself to their level.  
   
Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:
You are short a troop unit on your second battalion!

Thanks, I forgot one scout squad. I have edited my list, now.


He has changed his list a little, I have edited it. Removed the warriors and put 20 gargoyles. Game next week !

I see 100% tyranid victory, what makes you thinks so ? Is there a great difference between the competitiveness of our two lists ? I am curious to know more !

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/04/14 20:00:50


   
Made in de
Scuttling Genestealer




It depends on what you are playing.
I don't see the Ultramarines competing for any part of the table except their deployment zone until at least turn 3-4.
If you are playing a mission that requires the SM to to go out and score objectives, they would be well behind in points by then.

The SM weapon loadout is actually good against this Nid list with a lot of big monsters, but if any of them break through the screen, they will lock up the whole army in CC indefinately.
It looks like he's planning to do a Gaunt-bomb with the Trigon and Devourer-Gaunts, which may erase most of the scout screen in one swoop.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/14 23:20:34


 
   
Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

Yeah, I feel the same. But if he dropped his gaunt bomb to erase my scouts, it would be good for me: he wouldn't drop them into my lines, and would kill 5 or 10 scouts at most.
Then, I shoot him. At least, that is how I see it !

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/15 00:42:51


   
Made in de
Scuttling Genestealer




Well, here is how I see it played out:
- First Nid turn devourer-gaunts, flyrants, gargoyles all show up and their target would be scouts and anything else with bolters.
Optional stratagem to let gaunts shoot twice.
- Exocrine's preferred target should be those bikes.
- Everything else advances, Kraken stratagem on Genestealers, metabolic overdrive on Homragants.
Let's assume no successful charges turn 1.
Vehicles are completely ignored for now.

SMs now have lost most of their small arms fire in one round.
They will probably kill multiple big creatures in their next turn (best targets: Trigon, Exocrine), but won't be able to make a dent into the 70 gaunts and 20 stealers standing right in front of them. Should probably focus on those genestealers with what they have left.
Neurothrope holds Synapse if all else fails.

Next turn, all those hordes will swamp them. Vehicles don't get chapter tactics, so all those Predators and Razorbacks will not fire another shot this game.

Some time late in the game, carnifexes crash into the ongoing brawl and start finishing off vehicles.


I'd say the SMs need some reactive horde killing firepower, (or close combat units) that's save from the nids initial barrage and will help them to get rid of the horde of gaunts and genestealers. If they can manage to do that, they would easily finish off the big creatures.
For this list you should probably make sure to hide the bikes away and maybe have some units start in the razorbacks to keep them safe.
Make sure to space out vehicles, so that a flyrant can't tag more than one of them at a time.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/04/15 09:23:43


 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

I think the SM first turn will be the decider in all this, you have Lascannons to strip wounds off the big beasties, and the AssCans should thin out the hordes a bit, but as above posters have said, the moment he gets into combat, he could tie up your guys and that it.

Surprised however, that he didn't jiggle about his list a bit. He could have moved 1HQ and 3x HS into their own detachment anf gotten another CP out of it.
   
Made in hk
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant




Due to codex creep, Marine are generally out-shot, out-psychic, out-run and out-close combat by properly built Nidz, but anyway, Good luck. And to be honest, your list might still have some teeth there, and might stand a chance to fight if you get the 1st turn (or he get 1st turn but somehow performs poor).

Remember to keep a good distance between the "scarficial screen" and your major firing units, maybe 5-7", avoid the charging units consolidate in so tied up your main firer after killing the screen, while also need to watch out enemy "Fly" units jump over the screen and charge into the firers.

Remember to make good use of the stratagem, I can see the marine list are built towards using some of them. The Marine stratagem are not as good as the Nidz ones, but it is better than nothing. The ones that worth special notice are "Flakk Missile", which goes through the inv save of Flyrant. The Tremor Stratagem you just mentioned is also a good one, if unlucky you don't get the 1st turn, shoot them into the enemy 2nd wave of advancing units because by that time getting charged by the 1st wave units might already been inevitable, slow down the 2nd wave might give you a break to get rid of the 1st wave of charging units.

Good luck.
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator




Haven't read all the comments so sorry if I'm duplicating someone's advice.

First, love that you have scout bikers, they are awesome. Not sure how tight your point totals are, but you can stack a stormbolter on the Sgt, and if you split them into 2 squads of 3 you can do that to both of them, adding Rapid Fire 4 24" for as many points. Always a good thing.

I'd also slap an armor cherub on the Dev squad if you can, but again, you might be tight on points.

Also, love the Capt w/Teeth of Terra, one of my favorite artifacts. I usually like to put mine on a bike for the added toughness and another Rapid Fire 2, again if you have the points and weren't planning on deepstriking him. That list will have a fair amount of S4 shots so the extra toughness should come in handy. Good luck!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS - Spend 1CP to get Armor Indomitus on the Libby. And I might swap the LT for a Chaplain, you're going to be in CC and I think that might be more useful.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/17 17:23:49


"The Ultramarines are here to save us!"

"Those are the Sons of Orar."

"O R they!" 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

Looking forward to this one.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

Ok so, I apologize, this battle has been shifted to two weeks, because of a professional emergency (I will be deployed for the first time in an operation, and they want me to be checked this week ...).
I added the cherub, and I told him about his detachments .
Thanks for the good advice !
I think we won't use the beta rules.

I did a battle against death guard this week however (my 2nd against them), and by the Emperor, they are tough !

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/13 16:27:59


   
Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

The battle eventually happened ! After months of delays, I had my game.
His list had one change: his carnifex brood had spore cysts and he had one genestealer and two gaunts less.
We used the beta rules.

PRE GAME
We agreed on a Maelstrom game from the rulebook, we got the third one.
My list is the same as before.
I chose the warlord trait The Imperium's sword, and my psy powers were null zone and psychic scourge.

He had a warlord trait giving apparently -1 to be hit, but I can't find it anywhere, I think he got it wrong.
Catalyst on the broodlord, the horror on the flyrant, psychic scream on his warlord. His neurothrope didn't matter;
He got first turn.

DEPLOYEMENT
Here you can see the map and the deployement. I chose to play MSU, splitting my bikers and my vanguard veterans, to have more options and to avoir taking to many casualities from his tyrants.
I deployed quite far away from his, and took all the space to block his deep strikes. But by doing this, I put my devastator too far away from my chapter master rerolls
We got the deployement 1, spearhead I guess in English ?



I forgot my thundefire, so I put a circle explosion marker instead... I did just the deployement as I think it is very important to understand what is happening, and doing this kind of thing is pretty time consuming ! Tomorrow, I will add the others turns. Sorry for the colours: everyone is red today^^

This is my first battle report, it may be a bad one, you have been warned ! ^^

T1
Space Marines


I stole the initiative !
My chainsword scouts moved in the building, taking objective 4, no psy, no assault:
Shooting: the devastators put 2 wounds on a carnifex, Chronus and the snipers put 5 wounds on the exocrine, the thunderfire used the tremor stratagem on the genestealers and killed one and my shotgun scouts killed 2 gargoyles.
I tried for the first time the orbital bombardment, rolled a 2 and hit, the exocrine and the hormagaunts. I put one mortal wound on the exocrine and killed one horma. What a waste of CP...


Tyranids:
Everything moved forward. Some great advances rolls (kraken...). His gargoyles flyed past my scouts and ignored them. His tyrant landed just 2" from them. Poor guys !
The genestealers, the broodlord and the carnifexes assaulted the scouts in the building, thus closing my lines from about 7" more. The genestealers got the 5+ invu from a psy power and my closest razorback got -1 to hit .
His warlord smited my whole boltgun scout squad.
His shooting was pretty bad, killing 1 scout with his tyrant and wounding 5 times my predator.
He overkilled my poor chainsword scouts.

VP:
1 (the chainsword scouts took objective 4)
3 (first kill and ...)

T2
Space Marines

Ok he is close enough, it is time to counter strike !
My bike squads moved 16' forward his genestealers in the building, the only target they could shoot at mid range, my razors advanced and blocked lines of sight, like a wall, and the 2 vv squads + the librarian and the chapter master moved just behind, about 8" from his hormagaunts.
The librarian didn't succeed in casting anything.
Chronus and the snipers killed the exocrine. He used a stratagem to make it shoot one last time + the stratagem to give its weapon 3 damages and destroyed my predator.
IN.MY.SHOOTING.PHASE.
The bikers killed only about 5 genestealers thanks to their now 4+ save (cover), the razorbacks and the thunderfire shoot at them too (less than 10 genestealers remaining).
The devastator hit only 1 time AGAIN and finished the wounded carnifex.
IT IS TIME TO SLAY THE BEAST !
Of course the librarian and 5 vv failed their charge, and so the chapter master and only 5 veterans are able to make it. Nonetheless, they slay like 13 gaunts, and one brave veteran died from acid blood.
My shotgun scouts took 2 casualties, but hold their ground.

Tyranids:
Not being able to deep strike in my flanks or my behing my lines, his trygon and his 20 devogaunts came in in front of my devastator.
Using the auspex stratagem, I killed 6 of them (being 20, they had a sweet reroll of the 1s) before they slaughter 4 marines (despite their 2+ in cover) by shooting twice with the stratagem.
The warlod came closer to the devastator squad.
His tyrant fled the fight and went just in front of the snipers.
The gargoyles went back closer to the fight, ready to charge in: good, more skulls for the skull throne ! Ahem, I mean, FOR THE EMPEROR !
The remaining genestealers and the broodlord moved forward and advance, and got in my lines, just behing the razoback ready to charge the vv and Chronus.
He casted only two power, on I denied and a smite from his neurothrope (who stayed behing the horma), killing one shotgun scout. One remaining !
His shooting his bad again, killing two vv, one with each tyrant (the not engaged vv near the librarian).
His carnifex brood advance too and went after the bikers and one razorback, just to keep it from firing next turn.
He successfuly charge Chronus, the VV ( loosing one genestealer by overwatc) the devastators, the bikers the snipers and the chapter master.
I lost 4 bikers, 7HP on Chronus and 2 vv; all the snipers and 2 devastators.
In the big fight, only one power armor failed to protect his marine, whereas they purge 12 more gaunts, only 1 remaining !
My bikers put one wound on a carnifex, I forgot to make the lone vv attack and Cronus did 0 wound.

T3
Space Marines
Ok it is bad, I need to react NOW, I lost almost all my AT weapons.
My razorback reserve and got closer to his gargoyles, my Tac squad disembark just behind his carni, my chapter master one the two vv disengage and went on the objective 4 to get a victory point.
I need to kill a psyker too, and their is his neurothrope (who didn't do much of the whole game...) just behind The Big Fight. Mmmh...
I disengage the bikers ( only one mortal wound on a carni despite a reroll !) ,the librarian and the lieutnant close to the carni. My techmarine, always staying 3" from his cannon, moved a bit closer to the genestealer to get in flamer range.
Libby as useless as always.
SHOOTING !
By using my lone scout; my CM's plasma pistol and a tac squad, I let his neurothrope at 1 wound. The other tac squad shooted its plasma weaponry to the carnifex and the bolter to the gargoyles. Did only one wound the the carni, and 3 to the gargoyles. The razorback killed some gargoyles too.
The thunderfire and his cannon erase the 5 last genestealers.
The scout and one tac marine reached the neurothrope and killed it.
The other tac squad assaulted the last horma and cleanse it.
My two bikers and librarian assaulted his carnifex, finishing the wouned one. One more to force-sword !
Unfortunately, all the bikers and the last vv died to the broodlord and the carni, put my librarian made it thanks to his invu save.

Tyranids:
His tyrants, broodlord, carnifex (disengaging it) and gargoyles surrounded my tac squad and chapter master.
His devogaunt went through my razorback and came to range, and close to Chronus and the lieutenant.
Using a smite, he killed my poor librarian. Using an other smite + shooting from his gargoyles, he destroyed a tac squad. He shooted the 5 last Chronus HP and assaulted the lieutnant with his devogaunt, destroyed a razorback by assaulting them with his trygon, killed the chapter master and the last veterans and tac marines with his flyrant, broodlord and gargoyles.

END OF THE GAME
We decided to stop here , as we wanted to go spearfishing, and it is pretty obvious that I couldn't win anymore.

POST GAME
Soooo, what happened ?
I had the first turn, he didn't deep strike in my lines, he just went straight forward and killed my marines. Wow.

1/ He was very resilient. I didn't shoot his flyrant because, stupidly, we remembered they were characters, but forgot they had more than 10 wounds. It didn't matter, I don't think I would have shooted them, with 4+ invu and -1 to be hit for his warlord. His carnifex having -1 to be hit too for the first time was quite good , it really surprised my devastators Thus, I lacked AT to kill all his big monsters, but surprisingly, killed almost all his gaunts !

2 / Power creep: SM vehicles need to have chapter tactics. My poor Chronus and razorback lost one full shooting phase (of 3 ...)

3/ My bad: My bikers underperformed because I deployed them in the wrong side (facing only monstruous creatures) and then shooting at 4+ genestealers,
And again, I am cursed, I failed half my charges (8') with my vv despite a reroll !!! I didn't had any rerolls for my devastator squad (just the useless lieutnant), stupid deployement, this game showed it pretty clearly.

It was the first time I used a CM, his rerolls are quite powerful ! I Don't think I will use a librarian anymore, in 7th, he was bad, in 8th he is even worse. 120pts for that ? No.

Overall, except for the libby, I really like my list (even the scouts ! They took objective and screen for cheap, and the bikers too even if I badly played them in this one!) but I don't see how to win this game.
Even with a better deployement or with better objectives, he had too many troops and monsters, for me to kill them. I could play a chaplain with the vv and a thunder hammer / shield eternal jump pack captain, fighting one tyrant 1v1, I could take less scouts (since the beta rules, they are less neeeded), but I don't see it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/15 00:34:02


   
Made in hk
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant




What happened is the Marines are far inferior to Tyranids at this moment. They have overpriced units, relatively worse psychic and stratagem compared to Nidz. Also, I think maybe some key dices you rolled is cold, outside of seizing the inititive.

Some of the stratagem might be used wrong. For example, Death Franzy is for Nidz Characters only iirc. If that is right, that Exocrine should not be able to shoot your Predators when dying.

On marine side, I think the orbital bombardment should better target the point that have tons of inv save units or high toughness units nearby, such as Hive Tyrant, or Exocrine / T Fexes. Anyway, rolling a 1 on the numbers of wound inflicted really sucks.

There might be better way of deployment as well. Imho, you did not do a proper castling in deployment. Against a far more numerous enemy like Nidz Maybe try deploy on a corner with more line of sight is your better chance. In that way, enemy cannot hit you with their whole line.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/15 06:34:50


 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

Switch out the pp on the cm for a combi melta,

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
 
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