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I propose that Tau needs an extra entry in the HQ section to compensate for the recent nerf to the Commander spam. Now, I agree that the supreme command detachment commander spam was a bit out of hand, but I feel like the recent nerf was a bit too unwarranted without just compensation.

What if there was a lieutenant equivalent crisis unit entry that performs between a commander and crisis' by reintroducing the Shas'el rank? While Tau has HQ units such as darkstrider & fireblades, but these units don't quite bridge the gap like how other armies' lieutenants do. Presenting the "Shas'el in Crisis Battlesuit"

Shas'el in Crisis Battlesuit
M 8" \ WS 4+ \ BS 3+ \ S5 \ T5 \ W4 \ A3 \ Ld8 \ Sv 3+

Rules: Bonding Knife Ritual \ For the Greater Good \ Manta Strike \ Command Relay

Command Relay: If a COMMANDER within 12" of this unit declares the Master of War ability, its range is extended to also affect units within 6" of this unit

Shas'el is essentially buffed Crisis Shas'vre with +1 WS/BS/W, to be used as a standalone pseudo-commander without the ability to declare Master of War. However, it's special ability allows to function as vox-caster like unit which extends the Master of War ability.

Balance wise, Master of War is not a game breaking mechanic since its benefits can be duplicated via other means through wargears, markerlights, etc.

Edit: Edited per below post regarding the Tau ranking.

I would actually like to see this (As well as an actual Crisis suit fix, but that a whole other topic) Before the swap to 7th (or was it 6th) The commander that we have now was a Shas'o commander and there was a lesser commander of Shas'el rank. With the edition change they just upped and changed it to just Shas'o. I think this was just because the Shas'el was kinda lost behind the shas'o because they had the same functionality with regards to wargear, just different profiles. The shas'el was around a third cheaper for 1 less BS, WS, attack, wound and save.
I don't think we will see this however as it falls under GW recent precedent of no model, no rules to some degree. there's no real way to distinguish between a shas'el and a shas'o besides what your opponent tells you. That doesn't mean there wouldn't be a market for it though, Rules-wise I would also restrict them to the base XV8 Battlesuit with the option for Iridium armour rather than any of the variant suits such as enforcer or coldstar.

I don't really see the master of war relay thing being too desirable since it's once per game and Koyoun is so restrictive.
I wanted a bs3+ 2 hardpoints +2 support system build with an ability that "At the start of your turn choose 1 support system this unit is equipped with and one Battlesuit unit within 3". The chosen unit benefits from that support system until the start of your next turn as if each model were equipped with it". Since support systems are so difficult to justify normally. For something like this I wouldn't mind paying 80pts base as it would end up cheaper than a shas'o generally does and be quite useful still.

Seems fair. It lets Tau gain some of the benefits of Commanders while accepting the nerfs. What would you cost this?

Didn't really want to get into the points as it usually derails the discussion to whether it is balanced or not rather than a discussion about the concept of itself - but it should be balanced between a crisis and a commander, but a tad more close to a crisis.

As for the proposed special rule Command Relay is purposely a bit underwhelming as to promote Shas'o-Shas'el synergy rather than min-maxing the Shas'el as budget commander-spam.

I like it. Makes the little guy feel like support for the big guy without stepping on his toes too much. I've been kicking around dark eldar batallion ideas and finding myself wishing for dracons, syrens, and master haemonculi to be a thing again, so I"m currently in favor of the "mini-HQ" thing.

I think the price should be closer to the Commander than to a Crisis Suit - it's still an HQ, still a Character, and still better guns.

I could see Commanders and Subcommanders could be BS 3+/4+ - at which point the Subcommander would be much closer to Crisis points (and may even drop the points on Commanders).

I think much of the problem is Commanders being nearly twice as efficient at shooting guns that cost the same points. So your commander is the hero, running around doing much more than any one Crisis.

I think it's not just T'au where this can happen - I'd rather my Exarchs be my beatsick than an Autarch or Farseer. I'd rather have those sorts of commanders - ones known for command not combat skill - be more about leading than fighting. But that's not the way this game is going.

The BS nerf isn't intended to be an actual nerf - points adjustments should compensate. It's intended to make the Commander be more a leader and less the "Queen" on the table.

What do you guys think its permitted loadout should be?

My suggestion is 3 wargear options + 1 signature system.

I feel like allowing it 4 hardpoints begins to encroach Commander's toes little too much.

I think the actual solution is to just make Crisis suits BS3+ imho, or drop the points of the suits, with Shas'vre upgrade to make it the current points.

Same as Crisis leader would be ideal.

Bacon - I could see that - not sure it would need much repointing either. My goal was to make the Commander be less of an upgrade - and buffing Crisis Suits would actually do that better than nerfing the Commander (2+ is closer to 3+ than 3+ is to 4+).

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I think the actual solution is to just make Crisis suits BS3+ imho, or drop the points of the suits, with Shas'vre upgrade to make it the current points.

I agree that Crisis needs to be adjusted, but the proposal is in regards to the fact that recent nerf limits the number of characters in Crisis battlesuit to just 1 and only 1 per detachment.

For what it's worth, I feel like Crisis suit is a wargear just as much as a terminator suit is. The current nerf is almost like saying "You can only have 1 HQ in terminator armor per detachment".

I think it's relevant in that, part of the need to have only 1 Commander per detatchment, is that they outshine Crisis suits by so much. If there were less of a difference between them, it would be easier to points-cost weapons such that they're about as good on either platform.

Just because something that was broken was nerfed - doesn't mean you should get a buff somewhere else. Plus commanders did receive a buff that you aren't mentioning.

CIB is now 3 shots on overcharge instead of d3. Considering this is the best weapon loadout by a mile - and they buffed it 50% how can you be complaining?

Coldstar also got buffed and has the ability to chose any weapon but a CIB.

I think you misunderstand.

I'm suggesting that a big part of why they aren't pointed correctly is because it's very hard to point the weapons correctly such as they are neither over nor under priced whether they're on BS4+ Crisis or BS2+ Commanders.

Most armies have mostly 3+ skill and then an HQ with a 2+, and it is still impactful. A weapon on a 2+ platform is almost twice as good as a weapon on a 4+, all else equal.

Why didn't they just make commanders BS 3+? HAving them as BS 2+ makes zero sense.

crisis suits should have bs3+

Maybe. Maybe not. I don't know.

The first proposal that changed the BS was to put Commanders at BS3+, Sub-Commanders and Crisis at 4+.

There was a counter-suggestion to just buff Crisis to 3+ instead (and put subcommanders there).

For the purpose of the suggested tweak, either works, as long as points are adjusted. I'm not sure which is better.

Well other HQ's hit on 2's. I would think a shooty armies super shooter should be as good at shooting.

Some HQs hit on 2's. Not all.

IMO here are the changes that need to happen.
Crisis suits go to BS 3+ with no point cost increase.
CIB goes up to 22 points from 18
Missle pod goes to 16 points (essentially an autocannon varient - should have similar cost to an autocannon)
Plasma ether goes to 8 points OR gets buffed to flat 2 damage.
FB stays where it is.

This would make crisis be a better place to put CIB than commanders. ESP when shooting at targets with 5 marker lights.

Crisis suits would be high risk high reward unit that works with support - commanders would be lower risk but cost a lot more for not much more damage.

Also - missile crisis would be appealing for stand off type tau lists.

 Xenomancers wrote:
IMO here are the changes that need to happen.
Crisis suits go to BS 3+ with no point cost increase.
CIB goes up to 22 points from 18
Missle pod goes to 16 points (essentially an autocannon varient - should have similar cost to an autocannon)
Plasma ether goes to 8 points OR gets buffed to flat 2 damage.
FB stays where it is.

This would make crisis be a better place to put CIB than commanders. ESP when shooting at targets with 5 marker lights.

Crisis suits would be high risk high reward unit that works with support - commanders would be lower risk but cost a lot more for not much more damage.

Also - missile crisis would be appealing for stand off type tau lists.

I'd disagree with you regarding the niche they're supposed to fill. Crisis's have been for a long time lighter, more agile alien versions of dreadnoughts. Before Av was hauled away, crisis's used to put out just as much firepower as a dreadnought without the downside of being a walker (LOS, cover, Anti-AV, HP vs Wounds, etc). This kind-of-pseudo-walker unit niche it used to fill has been lost in the 8th IMO.

I feel like they should feel more like Tyranid Warriors (not as in of course, function as a synapse) as in multi-wound, geared to suit roles, has a decent board presence without becoming distraction carnifex.

Now, going back to the whole sub-commander thing - commanders should be very impactful, whether in form of firebase or as the 7th ed buffmander. And, precisely because they should be impactful, spamming commanders should be deterred in forms of increased points or hard cap, or etc. But my point in this proposal is that, you shouldn't be disallowed from adding additional HQ's that happens to be wearing a crisis suit JUST BECAUSE it happens so that commanders are the only HQ entries that happen to be in crisis suit. I feel like the main issue is that (whether fluff reasons or not) [Commander] is synonymous to [HQ in Crisis Suit]. There must be other high ranking officers and not those who just passed the trial of fire (Shas'ui) or survived a few battles (Shas'vre) that are in crisis suits.