Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was wondering if those of you who've read the new codex had further elucidations on some of what was mentioned. There are a few things that I'm kind of puzzled by.

1) Ahriman opining that Drazhar is of interest because MAYBE he's dust. That seems... strange, at best. Wouldn't Ahriman be far more likely to be after some master Haemonculi, than spending mental effort on pondering a Mysterious Stranger? It just seemed like a really odd thing to put in.

2) Hesperax joining the Ynarri to... hunt for Lucius? I mean, I like the idea - that she's looking for the only duellist she thinks might give her a challenge. But joining forces with a whole new hierarchy and way of life to find a dude seems like an inefficient way to go about it.

3) The death and resurrection of Vect. Narratively, what does this accomplish? Sure, for him it might be a clever trick to see who's just shedding crocodile tears and then kill them, but as a narrative thing, it doesn't do anything? "Moustache twirling Top Villain is dead. Wait, no he isn't" seems to be the whole story. I'm just wondering if I've missed something - BL novels or the like, where it gets expanded upon.

Now that's all very negative, but I just found the quality of the background to have taken a bit of a dip, especially compared to the Necron codex. Neither were factions I had much interest in playing before, but I thought Necrons hit the right note of Saturday Morning Cartoon villainy, with towering arrogance that's just the right level of silly. The DE just seem to be written with a lot of hanging threads that don't make much narrative sense. Maybe it's setting up for an eldar storyline that will carry through the Harlequins codex?

I don't know much about the first two points, but I think the third was put in as a direct response to people saying Vect's position was threatened following the events of Gathering Storm II. With the Mandrakes "saving" everyone from the breach of Khaine's Gate, the rise of Ynnead and Vect's failed assassination of Yvraine people were saying that Vect's position was being undermined and he was about to be killed off, and this was GamesWorkshop's way of saying he was still top-dog.

I guess Ahriman is getting a bit bored and is after a different distraction.

If Drazhar is dust and functioning as any normal Dark Eldar then maybe it's worthwhile. Ahriman has probably gone after knowledge based on more flimsy assumptions.

Hesperax one does seem a bit out there. Maybe it' will be a setup for Lucius final demise as if Hesperax does beat Lucius it sounds like a disappointment for her that Lucius was another let down rather than a worthy opponent. Or Maybe she does get excited about winning and Lucius adds her face to his armour.

Isn't Drahzar a Phoenix Lord? What makes him special compared to the others? Why be interested in him versus one whose 'easier' to catch.

The not-quite-canon answer - widely supported and believed - is that he was the first Scorpion PL. AFAIK, currently it's more canon than Blood Ravens being former Thousand Suns, but less canon than Guilleman being back.

It could be cool if Ahirman grew interested in Drahzar, and from there took interest in the other PL, because he sees some similarities between them (or the Exarch process) and the Rubric. It might open different avenues of interaction between 1ksons and Eldar, specifically the Aspect Warriors. Raiding/corrupting Shrines, capturing/studying them, reprisals, etc. Perhaps even the two sides learning from eachother.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It'd basically be the second foreign relations between Aspect Warriors themselves and a foreign power that I know of (the first being Incubi hunting them) - which could lead to power schsims within the Craftworlds themselves, as now Apsect Warriors - who don't organize politically currently - having a different concern than the rest of the Craftworlds.

You mean Blood Ravens, right?

What do you mean? THat's what I said! Anyone who says otherwise is lying!

It's certainly more canon than Blood *Angels* being 1kson decendants!

Or should i go with "Headcanon, BA aren't in the game!" to try to troll?

There is a bit of suspicion on whether or not Drazhar is actually Arhra, although that was in the 6th ed codex I think - as mentioned above.

Vect had definitely lost power. His whole shtick is being three moves ahead, but he fails to see the whole incursion/Yvraine thing happen, then fails to kill her.

His method is effective though: kill everyone and decide who he wants to resurrect.

I haven't had a chance to really dig into the fluff section yet, but here are my two cents.

Longstrider wrote:
I was wondering if those of you who've read the new codex had further elucidations on some of what was mentioned. There are a few things that I'm kind of puzzled by.

1) Ahriman opining that Drazhar is of interest because MAYBE he's dust. That seems... strange, at best. Wouldn't Ahriman be far more likely to be after some master Haemonculi, than spending mental effort on pondering a Mysterious Stranger? It just seemed like a really odd thing to put in.

Taking an interest in Drazhar makes a lot of sense to me. Rubricae are more than just murderized; they're basically being held hostage by Tzeentch. So I suspect there's only so much haemonculi can really do about their condition. On top of that, Arhra is said to have "burned with the dark light of chaos," but the true kin are extremely anti-chaos in general. So if if Drazhar is, in fact, Arhra, it implies that he managed to shake off all that pesky chaos business. So a dust-filled suit of haunted armor that was once claimed by chaos but apparently no longer is could be very interesting to Ahriman indeed. Also, the phoenix lords do wonky things to fate, so Ahriman might have plans for using that particular quirk to mess with Tzeentch's schemes.

My personal head canon? Arhra got a little too close to the dark side while trying to become a better warrior to defeat Slaanesh. He found a way to rid himself of the corrupted parts of his soul, but that has left him as the mute "living sword" we call Drazhar. If chaos corruption is brain cancer, then Drazhar is the post-lobotomy result.

2) Hesperax joining the Ynarri to... hunt for Lucius? I mean, I like the idea - that she's looking for the only duellist she thinks might give her a challenge. But joining forces with a whole new hierarchy and way of life to find a dude seems like an inefficient way to go about it.

Eh. You're not wrong, but Slaanesh has already shown that she's not a fan of Yvraine. It seems reasonable that one of the most famous champions of Slaanesh will show up to tussle with Yvraine before too long, and Lelith wants to be there when he does. Plus, Lelith is pretty old at this point. Maybe she just wanted to shake things up a little. Dark eldar are all about keeping things fresh. Also, I could see the living dark muse feeling compelled to hang out around the first herald of a new god. Living legends ought to hang out together after all, right? How else are you going to be the star of the new wave of myths?

3) The death and resurrection of Vect. Narratively, what does this accomplish? Sure, for him it might be a clever trick to see who's just shedding crocodile tears and then kill them, but as a narrative thing, it doesn't do anything? "Moustache twirling Top Villain is dead. Wait, no he isn't" seems to be the whole story. I'm just wondering if I've missed something - BL novels or the like, where it gets expanded upon.

I think this is just a combination of...
A.) Getting new tidbits of fluff is always nice, and it's not strange that the most famous of true kin happens to star in some of that fluff.
B.) Some of us have been under the impression that Vect's power took a hit when Yvraine ascended. This could just be a way of showing that he's still active and dangerous. Though personally, I've always thought that any flashy display of power on Vect's part is evidence that he feels at least a tiny bit threatened. His first plan always seems to be to let one of his minions handle things. If he has to actually pull off one of his big, trademark stunts, it means he feels compelled to remind people of his power... in the hopes that they don't test it. (Get 'im, Malys!)
C.) This could just be a Thursday for Vect. It makes for a good story, but large-scale coups and murders don't seem all that strange an event for Comorragh. If the same story had been told about a lesser archon and those near his status on the totem pole, we'd think it was neat but not that big a deal. Vect just adds star power to the story.

New to Drukhari but this Codex had me laughing at Vect's anime level of planning and solving problems. Opening a portal to have a burning battlecruiser drop on top of his rival's fortress was my personal favorite.

This is all a fluff noob's interpretation. Be warned:

I think Vect's death and resurrection was to mirror Yvraine. A lot of Drukhari took off with the Ynnari including Lelith Hesperax. Failing to kill off the Yvraine and letting them escape was also a huge blow to his credibility. Knowing Archon's would be up to no good, Vect stages his own death, gathers all of the Archons close, and murders them to choose who he can resurrect. His reappearance also makes it look like he has mastery over death with no need of the Haemonculi to resurrect him. IMO this was his way of clearing the chaff and showing those that were loyal that he also holds the power over death. Asdrubel Vect did it without the aid of some wannabe god too, therefore making him superior to Yvraine. Which makes his next announcement of being the new "Dark Muse" no surprise either.

TLDR: Vect fakes his death to show that he is equal if not superior to the new god of death with comparable powers. Added benefit of removing disloyal Drukhari from the picture.

"I have made a huge mistake." Vect, Arested Development.

https://youtu.be/HYp_3On1hWU

 Kelligula wrote:
New to Drukhari but this Codex had me laughing at Vect's anime level of planning and solving problems. Opening a portal to have a burning battlecruiser drop on top of his rival's fortress was my personal favorite.

This is all a fluff noob's interpretation. Be warned:

I think Vect's death and resurrection was to mirror Yvraine. A lot of Drukhari took off with the Ynnari including Lelith Hesperax. Failing to kill off the Yvraine and letting them escape was also a huge blow to his credibility. Knowing Archon's would be up to no good, Vect stages his own death, gathers all of the Archons close, and murders them to choose who he can resurrect. His reappearance also makes it look like he has mastery over death with no need of the Haemonculi to resurrect him. IMO this was his way of clearing the chaff and showing those that were loyal that he also holds the power over death. Asdrubel Vect did it without the aid of some wannabe god too, therefore making him superior to Yvraine. Which makes his next announcement of being the new "Dark Muse" no surprise either.

TLDR: Vect fakes his death to show that he is equal if not superior to the new god of death with comparable powers. Added benefit of removing disloyal Drukhari from the picture.

I think you and Wyldhunt have nailed it. This was one of Vects periodically showy stunts that leaves him in an at least temporarily unasailable position, at this point Lady Malys may well be the only Archon in Commorragh that he doesn't hold in total control.

As for Lelith, we already know that Yvrain cosniders her coming along for the ride in the hopes of gaining true immortality, something that may well be expanded upon should the Ynnari get a codex. She could also very much be hunting for Lucius as it's proving difficult to find worthwhile opponents.

If only Vector got rules in the codex.....

Longstrider wrote:
I was wondering if those of you who've read the new codex had further elucidations on some of what was mentioned. There are a few things that I'm kind of puzzled by.

1) Ahriman opining that Drazhar is of interest because MAYBE he's dust. That seems... strange, at best. Wouldn't Ahriman be far more likely to be after some master Haemonculi, than spending mental effort on pondering a Mysterious Stranger? It just seemed like a really odd thing to put in.

2) Hesperax joining the Ynarri to... hunt for Lucius? I mean, I like the idea - that she's looking for the only duellist she thinks might give her a challenge. But joining forces with a whole new hierarchy and way of life to find a dude seems like an inefficient way to go about it.

3) The death and resurrection of Vect. Narratively, what does this accomplish? Sure, for him it might be a clever trick to see who's just shedding crocodile tears and then kill them, but as a narrative thing, it doesn't do anything? "Moustache twirling Top Villain is dead. Wait, no he isn't" seems to be the whole story. I'm just wondering if I've missed something - BL novels or the like, where it gets expanded upon.

Now that's all very negative, but I just found the quality of the background to have taken a bit of a dip, especially compared to the Necron codex. Neither were factions I had much interest in playing before, but I thought Necrons hit the right note of Saturday Morning Cartoon villainy, with towering arrogance that's just the right level of silly. The DE just seem to be written with a lot of hanging threads that don't make much narrative sense. Maybe it's setting up for an eldar storyline that will carry through the Harlequins codex?

Drazhar being dust makes little sense. If that is the case, then WHO will wear his armour and get possessed by the Pheonix Lord's spirit? Drukhari wants the armour because they want power, but I don't think they will risk losing all feelings of pleasures and become dust or that.

I remember in Asurmen by Gav Thorpe that it is possible that Asurmen's body is full of dust due to his mortal core (the Exarch that he possesses) expiring long ago. Still, it is a curse that Eldar, much less the Dark Eldar, would like to stay away.

That assumes they know they'll be consumed by Drazhar. They probably don't so they'll put the armour on and then pretty much die.

I find the idea of Hesperax hunting for Lucius a bit stupid. Lucius has been defeated over a dozen of times by a wide variety of opponents. His armor is full of faces, each one of them from someone who beated him. Lelith herself has never lost a duel and only been injured, very slightly, once in her thousand of years old career as duelist in the most dangerous arena in the galaxy and it was at the hands of one of the greatest duelist in the Astartes history. It feels beneath her. In my opinion, Lucius feels too weak to present an interesting challenge to Lelith.

Vect plan seems to be rather classic in the genre and could be a bit interesting. Having him as the all powerful villain like in the Path of the dark Eldar trilogy is more boring than having him ascending again after a planned set-back.

Arihman interest in Drazhar shouldn't be much greater than in any other Phoenix Lord which doesn't mean Phoenix Lords shouldn't be interesting to the Thousand Sons sorcerer in the first place. It could lead to interesting developments and mayb flesh out a bit more the lore surrounding Drazhar.

epronovost wrote:
I find the idea of Hesperax hunting for Lucius a bit stupid. Lucius has been defeated over a dozen of times by a wide variety of opponents. His armor is full of faces, each one of them from someone who beated him. Lelith herself has never lost a duel and only been injured, very slightly, once in her thousand of years old career as duelist in the most dangerous arena in the galaxy and it was at the hands of one of the greatest duelist in the Astartes history. It feels beneath her. In my opinion, Lucius feels too weak to present an interesting challenge to Lelith.

Vect plan seems to be rather classic in the genre and could be a bit interesting. Having him as the all powerful villain like in the Path of the dark Eldar trilogy is more boring than having him ascending again after a planned set-back.

Arihman interest in Drazhar shouldn't be much greater than in any other Phoenix Lord which doesn't mean Phoenix Lords shouldn't be interesting to the Thousand Sons sorcerer in the first place. It could lead to interesting developments and mayb flesh out a bit more the lore surrounding Drazhar.

Yvraine also slashed Lelith's forearm (though it seems that was an intentional lure by Lelith) and did land a punch on Lelith (which was not intended by Lelith).

If GW wanted Lelith to be looking for a challenge, they could have just as easily said she was tiring of fighting mortal opponents and wanted to fight daemons, daemon princes, and greater daemons. In the larger scale she would be fighting a god, and maybe that is the kind of opponent she is now after.

The writers are under pressure to make "big things" happen to match the spirit of Cadia's destruction, the Indomitus Crusade, etc. But at the same time they need to maintain the status quo, so the fluff we're getting for the non-Imperial/Chaos factions is going to pretty much always have big implications without actually changing how the armies play on the tabletop.

My memory may be going here, but at the end of the last (7th ed) Dark Eldar codex it was looking like Commoragh was about to have a big ol' demon incursion. Vect kidnapped a bunch of Nulls to try to prevent that from occurring by installing them around the portal that would have let them in, did anything happen with that?

 War Kitten wrote:
My memory may be going here, but at the end of the last (7th ed) Dark Eldar codex it was looking like Commoragh was about to have a big ol' demon incursion. Vect kidnapped a bunch of Nulls to try to prevent that from occurring by installing them around the portal that would have let them in, did anything happen with that?

The entire (awesome) sub-plot of "a massive daemonic incursion erupting in Commorragh while simultaneously an open civil war is breaking out between Vect and Malys for control of the city" was basically shelved during the Gathering Storm event, in favor of the Ynnari storyline. The daemonic incursion was stopped with little fanfare, Malys took her cabal and went into self-imposed exile and we got this Vect master ruseman plot instead.

Well. That's a disappointment. I never read most of the Gathering Storm stuff so I missed the part where that whole thing got shelved.