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Hey guys this is a question to members outside Europe and the USA, especially for people who live in places where table top gaming is practically unheard of.
How does it feel to be alone in the hobby?
I'm a college student from Jordan (in the middle east) and warhammer and table top gaming in general is very rare here. the closest thing you can get to modeling is buying car or plane model kits. finding material for my hobby is also a difficult task. most craft stores sell stuff for canvas painting and rarely do I find any paints, material, and equipment suited for modeling (every time i ask one of the shop's staff members for anything related to modeling all i get are confused looks). So all i can do is buy models of the games workshop online store (or ebay) and make due with what ever paints, equipment and scenery i can find or make myself ( I have still to find the necessary material to make a good wash ). I could just purchase all of the necessary items online but a lot don't ship to my country. Plus, I honestly i don't wanna depend on online stores as my only source of equipment (I don't wanna wait 2 weeks for a paints to ship every time one of my bottles empties).
But what i think is the most difficult thing about being a warhammer player where i liven is finding someone to play with. or just to hobby with. convincing anyone to get into the hobby and spend the time, money and effort needed is difficult.
I love warhammer. I love the lore, the factions, and the game itself. It is truly one of the best setting i have ever read about and will always remain one of my most favorite things in the whole world. games workshop shop has given us a great gift and it kinda sucks not being able to share it with anybody i know.
has anybody experienced the same thing? what did you do about it?
Here in Michigan (a northern state of the USA) I am in nearly exactly the same situation as you, save for the fact that I can get things online easily. Easier online than in a store, actually. I have one hobby store that's 20 miles away that sells GW products and paints, a small selection of boardgames, FFG games, and Reaper Bones figures. 35 miles in the other direction is a comic book store that sells tons of boardgames and FFG stuff (like Armada, Xwing, etc). That's it.
My gaming companions are my wife, my dad, and a pair of buddies that will play miniatures wargames occasionally, but mostly I only get to RPG games with my friends. Which really sucks, as I have been into minis and wargaming for 20 years, now, with next to no one to enjoy them with.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/14 21:26:13
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
Right there with you. I'm in New Mexico. It's not the middle of nowhere, but we can see it from here!
Nearest game shop of any sort is eighty miles away, nearest game shop featuring miniatures is over 150 miles away. No wargamers at all within a hundred mile radius, as best I can tell. If it wasn't for the internet I'd probably go insane.
I live in the Deep South in the US, so I feel your pain. Yeah, there are a few stores here and there, but most in my area have a heavy focus on video games, with a handful of models for tabletop just to draw a few in. It's taken me months to finally hunt down a store that seems to have a decent community of wargamers, and I've found one that's within driving distance.
As for a lack of community, I really do understand that. Most people in my area seem to think that any wargame that isn't a historical is "satanic" because of that anti-D&D craze back in the 80's. Anything fantasy based (or Warhammer-style sci-fi) is considered evil and you can be shunned for playing them or showing interest. I just don't let it bother me because I want to do what I enjoy. The games are fun, and building and painting the minis has been a blast so far with what I've got.
I've got a plan to get friends into the hobby, but it'll take a bit of an investment on my part to get it going. Basically, I'm going to buy two small armies (or a starter box) for a game and demo it with my friends for a bit. If they're interested and want to play with more units, we can either proxy them with cardboard or something, or they can buy the models. I'd paint the ones I bought (which would probably become my backup army eventually), and they could decide if they wanted to paint their minis. A lot of this is based on if's, but it's plausible that it could work anywhere. The main downside is that it's a really big investment on my end, but I feel like it would balance out eventually.
As for a lack of community, I really do understand that. Most people in my area seem to think that any wargame that isn't a historical is "satanic" because of that anti-D&D craze back in the 80's. Anything fantasy based (or Warhammer-style sci-fi) is considered evil and you can be shunned for playing them or showing interest.
I'm sorry to ask, but is that really a thing? I ask out of sheer disbelief - I mean. I've heard jokes dressed up as rumours for that kind of thing. But never really thought it was real.
Anyway, to answer the op, I'm from rural Ireland originally. My neighbours were cows, rabbits and the occasional horse. First few years I was into the hobby, I was pretty much on my own - it was almost an online experience. I only got to experience the actual gaming/community side of it all after I went to university. Even then, in Ireland, Outside of the big cities, and one or two other hotspots, it's a veritable desert.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/15 08:17:06
greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy
"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are"
As for a lack of community, I really do understand that. Most people in my area seem to think that any wargame that isn't a historical is "satanic" because of that anti-D&D craze back in the 80's. Anything fantasy based (or Warhammer-style sci-fi) is considered evil and you can be shunned for playing them or showing interest.
I'm sorry to ask, but is that really a thing? I ask out of sheer disbelief - I mean. I've heard jokes dressed up as rumours for that kind of thing. But never really thought it was real.
I've lived in the South my whole life and have been gaming since the early 90's. This is absolutely not a thing.
As for a lack of community, I really do understand that. Most people in my area seem to think that any wargame that isn't a historical is "satanic" because of that anti-D&D craze back in the 80's. Anything fantasy based (or Warhammer-style sci-fi) is considered evil and you can be shunned for playing them or showing interest.
I'm sorry to ask, but is that really a thing? I ask out of sheer disbelief - I mean. I've heard jokes dressed up as rumours for that kind of thing. But never really thought it was real.
I've lived in the South my whole life and have been gaming since the early 90's. This is absolutely not a thing.
It depends on where you live. For a good chunk of central and northern Alabama, it definitely is. Yeah, there are a few areas that are more accepting (namely Huntsville and a few parts of Birmingham), but it’s rough to have any nerdy hobbies or interests.
As for a lack of community, I really do understand that. Most people in my area seem to think that any wargame that isn't a historical is "satanic" because of that anti-D&D craze back in the 80's. Anything fantasy based (or Warhammer-style sci-fi) is considered evil and you can be shunned for playing them or showing interest.
I'm sorry to ask, but is that really a thing? I ask out of sheer disbelief - I mean. I've heard jokes dressed up as rumours for that kind of thing. But never really thought it was real.
I've lived in the South my whole life and have been gaming since the early 90's. This is absolutely not a thing.
Whereas I grew up in Kentucky, where it was a thing, and now live in rural Oregon where I have recently had co-workers banging on about the evils of D&D.
So maybe it's a thing, after all.
More on topic, where I live now I have to drive about an hour to find fellow gamers where we play at an FGS.
There's a comic book shop 30 minutes away that sells a ton of GW.
They have no in-store gaming and make no effort to connect players.
Facebook and other social media have not been that useful but we've established a group to help with that.
I completely get the frustration of wanting to hobby/game and having nobody or even just a very limited/hard to access player/player(s).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/15 16:57:30
In my business I've lost customers because they found out I was into evil fantasy stuff. And that's up in Canada. It absolutely is a thing.
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
But in the 1980s the game came under an extraordinary sustained assault from fundamentalist religious groups who feared its power over young minds.
In 1979, 16-year-old child prodigy James Dallas Egbert III disappeared from his room at Michigan State University. A private investigator, William Dear, was hired by James's parents to find their son. Despite apparently knowing little about roleplaying games, Dear believed that D&D was the cause of Egbert's disappearance.
In truth, Egbert suffered from, among other things, depression and drug addiction, and had gone into hiding - in the utility tunnels under the university - during an episode of self-harm. The well-publicised episode - referred to as the Steam Tunnel Incident - prompted a number of works of fiction, including the novel Mazes and Monsters and 1982 Tom Hanks film of the same name.
Egbert later died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound in 1980. Despite the evidence regarding his mental health problems, some activists believed Egbert's suicide was caused by D&D.
In 1982, high school student Irving Lee Pulling died after shooting himself in the chest. Despite an article in the Washington Post at the time commenting "how [Pulling] had trouble 'fitting in'", mother Patricia Pulling believed her son's suicide was caused by him playing D&D.
Again, it was clear that more complex psychological factors were at play. Victoria Rockecharlie, a classmate of Irving Pulling, commented that "he had a lot of problems anyway that weren't associated with the game".
At first, Patricia Pulling attempted to sue her son's high school principal, claiming the curse placed upon her son's character during a game run by the principal was real. She also sued TSR Inc, the publishers of D&D. Despite the court dismissing these cases, Pulling continued her campaign by forming Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons (BADD) in 1983.
Pulling described D&D as "a fantasy role-playing game which uses demonology, witchcraft, voodoo, murder, rape, blasphemy, suicide, assassination, insanity, sex perversion, homosexuality, prostitution, satanic type rituals, gambling, barbarism, cannibalism, sadism, desecration, demon summoning, necromantics, divination and other teachings".
Pulling and BADD launched an intensive media campaign through conservative Christian outlets as well as mainstream media, including an appearance on current affairs show 60 Minutes opposite D&D co-creator Gary Gygax.
In 1985, Jon Quigley, of the Lakeview Full Gospel Fellowship, spoke for many opponents when he claimed: "The game is an occult tool that opens up young people to influence or possession by demons."
These fears also found their way into the UK. Fantasy author KT Davies recalls "showing a vicar a gaming figure - he likened D&D to demon worship because there were 'gods' in the game".
Veteran roleplayer Andy Smith found himself in the unusual position of being both a roleplayer and a Christian. "While working for a Christian organisation I was told to remove my roleplaying books from the shared accommodation as they were offensive to some of the other workers and contained references to demon-worship."
Looking back now, it's possible to see the tendrils of a classic moral panic, and some elements of the slightly esoteric world of roleplaying did stir the imaginations of panicked outsiders.
"Since fantasy typically features activities like magic and witchcraft, D&D was perceived to be in direct opposition to biblical precepts and established thinking about witchcraft and magic," says Dr David Waldron, lecturer in history and anthropology at Federation University Australia and author of Roleplaying Games and the Christian Right: Community Formation in Response to a Moral Panic. "There was also a view that youth had an inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality."
While the wilder claims about the nature of D&D tended to emanate from evangelical groups, they prompted wider suspicion.
"The memes from this campaign proliferated and, being published largely uncritically in the initial stages, led to a wide-ranging list of bizarre claims," says Waldron. "For example, that when a character died you were also likely to commit suicide."
Quoted the most pertinent part, more info behind the link.
Although when we moved location, the committee of the local church hall where my club now meets had concerns that we weren't gambling (given that for brevity I'd explained what we did as card and dice based games this was understandable) but not a hint of anything rese,bling the nonsense above.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/15 18:09:15
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
I used to live in Dubai and Qatar for 9 years or so; the latter was completely dry in terms of hobby communities, so I mostly used the time to model, paint and absorb more of the lore. I used any holidays back to the UK to pick up my supplies and whatnot, but I mostly just had to accept being alone in the hobby, with one or two glimmers of getting others interested, that only ever amounted to a game or two with a few models. I knew that, eventually, I would plant my feet back in the UK, where the hobby community is obviously thriving; hopefully a similar option may be available to you in the future.
I lost those customers in mid November. One of their acquaintances mentioned that I was at a gaming convention and within a week I got two calls from two separate businesses to tell me they can't do business with me until I repent and stop spreading demonic influences. I know, 2017, not 2018...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/15 21:38:22
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
frozenwastes wrote: I lost those customers in mid November. One of their acquaintances mentioned that I was at a gaming convention and within a week I got two calls from two separate businesses to tell me they can't do business with me until I repent and stop spreading demonic influences. I know, 2017, not 2018...
Well I have to concede that that is pretty crazy.
Maybe they were just still really pissed about 8th edition.
Strombones wrote: Yes. There was a belief that Dungeons and Dragons was related to Satanism by fringe Christian groups in the 1980's.
The same does not extend to "non historical table top gaming" in 2018.
You say that like anyone who believed it in the first place would be well informed or open minded enough to draw the distinction.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Strombones wrote: Yes. There was a belief that Dungeons and Dragons was related to Satanism by fringe Christian groups in the 1980's.
The same does not extend to "non historical table top gaming" in 2018.
You say that like anyone who believed it in the first place would be well informed or open minded enough to draw the distinction.
Either way, of all the places I have lived and gamed in the South East, and trust me the list is long, I've never once found Warhammer 40k to be connected to Satanism. Of course I can't rule out that it is possible, as I certainly believe frozen wastes unfortunate story above. My point was that i don't believe there is a broad cultural taboo that could get one shunned from a community in the ways that playing D and D in rural 1980s Missouri would.
frozenwastes wrote: I lost those customers in mid November. One of their acquaintances mentioned that I was at a gaming convention and within a week I got two calls from two separate businesses to tell me they can't do business with me until I repent and stop spreading demonic influences. I know, 2017, not 2018...
Well I have to concede that that is pretty crazy.
Maybe they were just still really pissed about 8th edition.
Lol.
And some people took the loss of the old world harder than others.
I think it's also a more likely to be encountered in small towns and rural areas. The last time I encountered such attitudes in a city was in the 90s.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Time zones are an issue but I know there are some groups of people that do Skype/hangout video hobby chat together. The other people might be far away, but it's still cool to be able to paint or make terrain while chatting with people.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/15 22:17:05
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
It’s not a big deal in the bigger cities (Huntsville and Birmingham, like I said in my earlier comment), but it’s a huge issue in the smaller communities where a lot of people, including myself, live. I’ve had friends stop talking to be for mentioning any type of wargame, and I know of several game stores that have been run out of business because the communities discovered that they allowed D&D or wargames to be played on their property (or sold them). This is in the past couple of years. In my case, I wasn’t able to even think about wargaming until I moved closer to Birmingham because there was absolutely no one who sold them or allowed them in the store. It’s a pain, but that’s just how it is in my area.
I'm in the US but I live up in the mountains of Colorado. Most of my friends have never heard of 40k or they aren't interested in games that aren't computer based. It can be depressing at times, but I've grown to love the hobby portion. Collecting models, painting, and reading the codices for fluff. It's all addicting for me and I hope to have a little bit of everything one day.
Praying to get a game of 9th edition in before Summer.
I feel the pain. Here in a part of NY that is not NYC, the closest 'local' store is an hour plus drive away. I have to work, and simply can't be driving out there all the time for the chance of maybe getting in a game. It has led me to greatly curtail any purchasing, and in fact has led to a selloff of some stuff. I have just had to face the reality that for my foreseeable future, there is very little chance there would be any gaming in it.
As for a lack of community, I really do understand that. Most people in my area seem to think that any wargame that isn't a historical is "satanic" because of that anti-D&D craze back in the 80's. Anything fantasy based (or Warhammer-style sci-fi) is considered evil and you can be shunned for playing them or showing interest.
I'm sorry to ask, but is that really a thing? I ask out of sheer disbelief - I mean. I've heard jokes dressed up as rumours for that kind of thing. But never really thought it was real.
Yes, it's all a load of fresh raw sewage, but there are people that believe it. Not just hook, line, and sinker, but rod, reel, boat, and a year's subscription to Bass Master magazine.
Not sure why this should surprise you, given the way the American political situation has been shaking out the past couple decades. Not to mention the climate-deniers, the flat-earthers, the creationists, etc, so-on, and so forth.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/16 00:32:11
I have a couple stores in my area that still sell 40k and could potentially have players: one here in town, which is pretty small and usually kinda dead, and one about 45 minutes to an hour's drive away, but both are mostly made up of Magic players or people looking for board games. 40k product just kinda sits on a shelf with an occasional interested customer who comes by to scoff at the prices and then look at something else, barely anyone buys the stuff anymore, but I assume there's just enough people buying to justify stocking it. Both stores sometimes have 40k events but I've always either been too busy to play in them or they're scheduled for days when I have to work (the one that's farther away does Necromunda on Tuesdays...I'd have loved to participate but I work Tuesday nights so that kinda killed it for me).
I remember there used to be a decent amount of 40k players at one time. One store had an Apocalypse event spanning an entire room full of tables for the midnight release of 5th edition and the room was pretty much packed, but I hardly see anyone playing the game when I go to the store anymore, and I don't remember the last time they ever had a big event like that. Not sure if 6th/7th killed the game around here or what, haven't really been playing much myself since then, either, so I don't know enough about the local community to really say.
In any case I have a different problem, personally: my brother, the one I talked 40k with the most and one of the only people I still occasionally played with, died in his sleep from a heart attack on March 14th at 28-years-old. Needless to say it hit my entire family pretty hard and dealt a pretty heavy blow to my enthusiasm for 40k and almost literally all of my hobbies, since we were into all the same kinda stuff. I was in the middle of building a new Tau commander and had planned on getting some other stuff built in anticipation for the new Tau codex but it's been sitting on my desk untouched since then, and I haven't even touched the new fething book at all after I picked it up from the store. I've been contemplating just selling everything and getting out of it altogether, and I still have to go through all his 40k stuff and figure out what to do with it, too. I'm just not the same person I used to be, and I don't know if I even really want to play the game ever again. Not sure what, if anything, I can do about that.
And yeah, the stigma towards tabletop gaming and D&D in particular is real. My mom is/was one of those types and I remember many arguments with my dad about his "satanic" D&D models and books and how she didn't want us boys ever touching that "demonic" stuff ourselves. She still hates the stuff even now, but it's more because she sees it as stupid or a waste of time/money more than anything else, doesn't really push the whole religious angle anymore...although last time her, my brother and I all ate out together she said something about how she thought Monster energy was evil or bad for you because it has the "mark of the beast" on the can, so I guess there's still a little bit of that kinda stuff lingering around in her head.
Desubot wrote: Why isnt Slut Wars: The Sexpocalypse a real game dammit.
"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game."
mrsevenplus7 wrote: Plus, I honestly i don't wanna depend on online stores as my only source of equipment (I don't wanna wait 2 weeks for a paints to ship every time one of my bottles empties).
Are there art supply stores near you? Acrylic paints are still acrylic paints, and one is paying extra for convience with the tiny jars and dropper bottles. (Admittedly, it is better than having to mix your own colors from scratch as one must with artist's acrylics.)
mrsevenplus7 wrote: I love warhammer. I love the lore, the factions, and the game itself. It is truly one of the best setting i have ever read about and will always remain one of my most favorite things in the whole world. games workshop shop has given us a great gift and it kinda sucks not being able to share it with anybody i know.
Perhaps if you can get a starter box and prepare two armies you can get an opponent if you provide the means. That's something I had to do with WHFB a long time ago (1980s-1990s).
As for the AD&D "Satanism" crap, had to deal with it even here in L.A. during the 80s, but L.A. is large and secular, so they could harass you as an individual, but they couldn't run you or the hobby stores out of town.
My good buddy is going to be moving out of the state this year, and he'll be the last of the people I know who is willing to play any of this stuff. Not sure what i'm gonna do after that, i'm not particularly a sociable dude and making new friends has never been a thing i'm good at. Everybody at my LGS seems to play card games and i'm not sure how to go about seeing if anyone does/or is interested in tabletop miniatures games. For the near future it just looks like i'm going to be collecting and doing more hobby oriented stuff.
Thargrim wrote: My good buddy is going to be moving out of the state this year, and he'll be the last of the people I know who is willing to play any of this stuff. Not sure what i'm gonna do after that, i'm not particularly a sociable dude and making new friends has never been a thing i'm good at. Everybody at my LGS seems to play card games and i'm not sure how to go about seeing if anyone does/or is interested in tabletop miniatures games. For the near future it just looks like i'm going to be collecting and doing more hobby oriented stuff.
Talk to the manager or any employees you may have dealt with before. See if they’re open to hosting a wargaming night as a test to get a feel for the community interest. If you have multiple armies, offer to host some demo games as part of it. They may shoot you down, but they may think it’s a great idea. You’d never know if you don’t ask.
Thargrim wrote: My good buddy is going to be moving out of the state this year, and he'll be the last of the people I know who is willing to play any of this stuff. Not sure what i'm gonna do after that, i'm not particularly a sociable dude and making new friends has never been a thing i'm good at. Everybody at my LGS seems to play card games and i'm not sure how to go about seeing if anyone does/or is interested in tabletop miniatures games. For the near future it just looks like i'm going to be collecting and doing more hobby oriented stuff.
Talk to the manager or any employees you may have dealt with before. See if they’re open to hosting a wargaming night as a test to get a feel for the community interest. If you have multiple armies, offer to host some demo games as part of it. They may shoot you down, but they may think it’s a great idea. You’d never know if you don’t ask.
Agree with this statement 100%.
Most tournaments or any wargaming days in my area were mostly organised by WAAC players and people who take winning a bit to serious. Until, my local GW manager organised a gaming day at my FLG which really boosted 40k in my area by getting new people into the hobby and asking my GW manager to operate these days at least monthly .
Right now, we have a club that meets up every 2nd Tuesday and we have on average of 15-20 people per night from a club of 32 people.
mrsevenplus7 wrote: I have still to find the necessary material to make a good wash ). I could just purchase all of the necessary items online but a lot don't ship to my country. Plus, I honestly i don't wanna depend on online stores as my only source of equipment (I don't wanna wait 2 weeks for a paints to ship every time one of my bottles empties).
Deathwatch 
AdMech 
