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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Would like to hear from any dakka members from Germany on this. . .

Is this legit?

Mrs Merkel herself has previously admitted that such 'no go zones' are indeed a reality amid pledges to 'do something about them'.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5620795/Most-Germans-fear-no-zones-believe-police-afraid-patrol.html

I keep hearing different things about how well things are going in various places, some say everything is great, others say there are real concerns. A lot of the negative stuff is in tabloids, but if you read CNN they will say no issues for the most part, so I feel the stories are posted with an agenda in mind.

Are any of you seeing this first-hand? What does the typical German say of the situations?
   
Made in us
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





Take a pole of americans and I can bet you would get the same result. They would probably claim the same about down town Detroit. The answer is no. There are no “no-go” areas.

 insaniak wrote:
Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons...
 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

If it is about immigration and is in the Daily Mail then you can safely discard it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/16 14:22:06


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Made in gb
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

Not German but visit occasionally and never heard of them.

It's also worth noting that the Daily Mail is what we call "gutter press" and not in any way a reliable source of news. I wouldn't rely on anything they say unless there's a citation to the origin of the information, which in this case is (unsurprisingly) completely absent.

From my recollection; the migrants have caused an increase in crime stats, though the largest growth has been crime *against* migrants, not by migrants. Most of the large anti-migrant news reports have turned out to be rubbish.

So I would err towards no-go zones not existing in the way portrayed - the information is either made up or distorted.
   
Made in es
Inspiring Icon Bearer




KTG17 wrote:
Would like to hear from any dakka members from Germany on this. . .

Is this legit?

Mrs Merkel herself has previously admitted that such 'no go zones' are indeed a reality amid pledges to 'do something about them'.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5620795/Most-Germans-fear-no-zones-believe-police-afraid-patrol.html


A poll ran by Bild? Seriously, these guys:



"UFO cult wants to clone Hitler"



Hitler ordered construction of UFOs

It's basically Germany's Sun, with some added craziness and a fondness of all things Hitler and UFOs. Google a bit, there are quite a few gems there. And yes, those articles were in the cover (along with the occasional topless girl).


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/16 14:28:45


 
   
Made in de
Experienced Maneater






Yeah, you'll find stuff for No-go zones on the web if you search for it. None of them credible.

Some parties are using the flood of migrants to Germany to create pseudo-problems (without any source), twisting sources, disregarding fact based arguments as "Lügenpresse" (Fake news basically) and fire up the fear of migrants with made up stats. And the web offers the best platform for this kind of uninformed rage.

It's just like Abraham Lincoln once said: "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."

   
Made in gb
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The Institute for Studies found that reading the newspaper is worse for you than smoking, and much less educational.

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Made in nl
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We talked about this at length in the German election thread. Merkel only used the word no go zones in relation to preventing them from forming as a consequence of criminal activity. She didn't bring up foreigners, migrants or Muslims in relation to it once. Its a false connection being conjured up.

As for migrant crime rate, again from the same thread. Its not noticably different between Germans and migrants. Were talking about differences of 0.01% in most cases.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/16 14:51:30


Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Some funny responses here lol
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I'd imagine there's about as many in Germany as there are in London.

And that's none. Even though according to Das Daily Heil, I apparently drive through one ten times a week on my commute to and from work.

It's a load of sensationalist nonsense designed to stir up further nationalist nonsense.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Glasgow, Scotland

Are these "no go zones" a popular topic for the American press? I seem to only hear them being discussed by Americans. The locals meanwhile are like "meh, its a bit dodgy if some drunks are about sometimes".
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Are these "no go zones" a popular topic for the American press? I seem to only hear them being discussed by Americans. The locals meanwhile are like "meh, its a bit dodgy if some drunks are about sometimes".


It's a popular subject for the American and European far-right because they have an equal disdain for foreigners, left-wing (compared to them) governments, and facts.

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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

What is a *no-go* zone? Can someone define that?

Here in the states, I'll describe what I think is a *no-go* zone:
1) Doesn't mean the police or fire dept won't go there
2) Just means, you don't loiter around in this area due to high crimes
3) IE. East St. Louis and some parts of Oakland is a "no-go" zone for me... at times, you'd be forgiven for thinking you're on a "Escape from LA" set.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah I am sure every large city in the US has an area you don't stop and ask for directions in. I just wasn't sure if the ones in Germany are of enclaves of refugees or something.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/16 16:05:24


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles

 whembly wrote:
What is a *no-go* zone? Can someone define that?

Here in the states, I'll describe what I think is a *no-go* zone:
1) Doesn't mean the police or fire dept won't go there
2) Just means, you don't loiter around in this area due to high crimes
3) IE. East St. Louis and some parts of Oakland is a "no-go" zone for me... at times, you'd be forgiven for thinking you're on a "Escape from LA" set.


I've only heard the term used to refer to neighborhoods associated with high immigrant, and especially Muslim immigrant, populations. I've never heard of it used to describe a "generic" unsafe neighborhood. There always seemed to be a racial and or religious "other" element added to the term. Just my observations, though.
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Under the relaxed definition of "high crime area" you don't want to loiter in, I imagine nearly every city in the US has one.

I think the definition KTG is going for is the one originally floated by a Fox News commentator in 2015:

Well these no go zones exist not only in France, but they exist throughout Europe. They’re sort of amorphous, they’re not contiguous necessarily, but they’re sort of safe havens and they’re places where the governments like France, Britain, Sweden, Germany don’t exercise any sovereignty. So you basically have zones where Shariah courts were set up, where Muslim density is very intense, where the police don’t go in, and where it’s basically a separate country almost, a country within a country.

...

In Britain, it’s not just no go zones, there are actual cities like Birmingham that are totally Muslim where non-Muslims just simply don’t go in. And parts of London, there are actually Muslim religious police that actually beat and actually wound seriously anyone who doesn’t dress according to Muslim, religious Muslim attire. So there’s a situation that Western Europe is not dealing with.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/16 16:32:39


 lord_blackfang wrote:
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Bristol

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

I've only heard the term used to refer to neighborhoods associated with high immigrant, and especially Muslim immigrant, populations. I've never heard of it used to describe a "generic" unsafe neighborhood. There always seemed to be a racial and or religious "other" element added to the term. Just my observations, though.


This. Most of the places which peddle nonsense like "no go zones" aren't pointing at the violence and hostility to the police in a community with a large proportion of white skinheads as those people are often its target demographic.

It pretty much always has a racist, xenophobic or anti-islam slant, ranging from a dog whistle to a bullhorn depending on the publication in question.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ouze wrote:
Under the relaxed definition of "high crime area" you don't want to loiter in, I imagine nearly every city in the US has one.

I think the definition KTG is going for is the one originally floated by a Fox News commentator in 2015:

Well these no go zones exist not only in France, but they exist throughout Europe. They’re sort of amorphous, they’re not contiguous necessarily, but they’re sort of safe havens and they’re places where the governments like France, Britain, Sweden, Germany don’t exercise any sovereignty. So you basically have zones where Shariah courts were set up, where Muslim density is very intense, where the police don’t go in, and where it’s basically a separate country almost, a country within a country.

...

In Britain, it’s not just no go zones, there are actual cities like Birmingham that are totally Muslim where non-Muslims just simply don’t go in. And parts of London, there are actually Muslim religious police that actually beat and actually wound seriously anyone who doesn’t dress according to Muslim, religious Muslim attire. So there’s a situation that Western Europe is not dealing with.



And it goes without saying that it was all utter bs then and remains so now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/16 16:33:54


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
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Made in us
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Leerstetten, Germany

The Bild is a daily newspaper focused on "shock" articles, with headlines that they know will result in people picking up the paper. A poll of Bild readers will get the same result as a poll of any random xenophobic right-wing group.

As for the admission by Merkel that no-go groups exist, it requires some logical leaps to come up with that conclusion. When the topic of "no-go zones" first became a thing, it was described as areas where police are refusing to go and law enforcement was non-existent. The "no-go" was for police.

What Merkel is talking about is "there are areas where people are afraid to go to". Which is different than "there are areas where police are refusing to enforce the law". If people are scared of an area, either because of actual criminal statistics or bigotry, that is one thing. But that doesn't equal some sort of admission that Germany has areas that are under total control of immigrant Muslim populations, where Sharia law rules the neighborhoods and German police are refusing to enter to enforce real laws.

Edit: the actual Merkel interview, just for transparency:

https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Ich-kann-Erfolg-sehr-gut-teilen-article20309326.html

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/16 16:43:20


 
   
Made in gb
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Colne, England

Is it time to drag out the Daily Mail Headline generator?

Brb learning to play.

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Reminds me of the time I had a guy at work tell me about the “no go” zones in the UK where sharia law was practiced and the police stayed away.

Tried to tell him it was bs but he wouldn’t listen. Alex Jones had convinced him.

"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

As with flat earth, one wonders if these people ever actually go to the "no go zone" to find out for themselves if it's true?

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

 Kilkrazy wrote:
As with flat earth, one wonders if these people ever actually go to the "no go zone" to find out for themselves if it's true?


And risk being pulled up in a sharia court for being white in a Muslim zone? Or walking into the set of judge dredd.

Anyone capable of critical thinking should know these claims just don't pass the sniff test. If they did exist there would be some evidence of them; barriers or checkpoints, and the police/government would be cracking down on them.

Those that want to believe in no go zones will be able to visit and confirm in. Since the odds are there will be no police presence and potentially no white people. Or their EDL t-shirt causes a negative response.

There are some areas in the UK that have very dense Muslim populations and have Arabic/Urdu signs, but having visited a few I've never had any problems beyond not being able to read the Arabic signage.

There are of course areas I wouldn't want to loiter in but not because of race or outlaws.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/16 20:07:21


 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





KTG17 wrote:
Yeah I am sure every large city in the US has an area you don't stop and ask for directions in. I just wasn't sure if the ones in Germany are of enclaves of refugees or something.


Are you not getting the answers you wanted in here?

Insidious Intriguer 
   
Made in de
Battlefield Tourist






Nuremberg

There are some rough areas in Berlin and other major cities, but no, there are no "no go" areas where the German state does not exercise control. These things are just scare stories concocted by dishonest media to push an agenda. Germany is the safest and most civilized country I've ever lived in. I've been here for going on 7 years and had more trouble in my two years in the UK (in an area with bugger all immigrants) or my however many years in Dublin. And by trouble, I just mean run of the mill antisocial behaviour.

Please, think about what this means with regard to how much you should trust the people pushing this nonsense.

   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




The only no go zones I read about (never seen one, especially not the type that gets mentioned in the US "press") were about some east german cities where Neo-Nazis have a bigger presence which leads to attacks against left leaning activists, immigrants, or refugees and where the police didn't help (due to being right wing or even Nazi sympathisers). If you add that left leaning people move out of those areas it can leave a rather extreme right wing taste in some areas.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Mysterio wrote:
KTG17 wrote:
Yeah I am sure every large city in the US has an area you don't stop and ask for directions in. I just wasn't sure if the ones in Germany are of enclaves of refugees or something.


Are you not getting the answers you wanted in here?


What? Not even sure how you can read that post and then think to ask me that.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 Steve steveson wrote:
Take a pole of americans and I can bet you would get the same result. They would probably claim the same about down town Detroit. The answer is no. There are no “no-go” areas.


Depends on what your definition of No-go Zone is.

No-go Zone's do not literally exist in the sense that Police, authorities, people of certain ethnic groups etc cannot and do not ever go there.

But there most certainly do exist areas which Police forces consider high risk (or more risky than most other places) for them or others to enter, for whatever reason, and so they only go there in force.

And no, before some rabid leftist here trys to label me as a far right bigot, I personally do not think the term "No-go Zone" does or should apply only to areas dominated by Muslims and other ethnic minorities. I think a neighbourhood full of Neo Nazis who hate and attack the Police is just as much a No-Go Zone as one full of discontented Muslim immigrants.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/04/17 02:47:39


 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


And no, before some rabid leftist here trys to label me as a far right bigot, I personally do not think the term "No-go Zone" does or should apply only to areas dominated by Muslims and other ethnic minorities.


OK...

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


I think a neighboured full of Neo Nazis who hate and attack the Police is just as much a No-Go Zone as one full of discontented Muslim immigrants.


Huh?

Insidious Intriguer 
   
Made in gb
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What about my post do you not understand?
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





I'd love to be able to dismiss this story as total nonsense carried by the usual suspects, The Daily Mail, FOX News, The Sun etc. And that is kind of true, those papers are all running this story, as part of the usual nonsense they run to scare people about Islamic hordes.

However, here's what Merkel said;

Interviewer: What does zero tolerance actually mean?
Merkel: It means, for example, that there shouldn't be any no-go areas, that is no place where people are too scared to go. There are places like that and we have to name them as such and do something about them. And I think that as the interior minister, Thomas de Maziere has done a very, very good job.

That's a pretty clear statement from the Chancellor that there are no-go areas in Germany. Of course, as always it gets more complicated. The interviewer failed to pick up on this and ask a follow up on where those areas are and exactly who they are a no-go area for. Other reporters subsequently followed up, asking for a list of no-go areas and clarification of what Merkel means by no-go area. Merkel's office refused to provide a list or clarify what she meant, and instead issued a statement that Merkel's words spoke for themselves.

So Merkel is walking away from the comment and hoping it goes away. By my reading, if the claim was actually true there'd be a clear imperative and some easy political gains from launching a policy and focusing police resources on targeted locations. The fact she isn't doing that is strong evidence that there is no real problem, no neighborhoods full of gangs that police won't enter. Likely Merkel was just playing for a strong on crime position, and oversold it with some claims that were more substantial than she intended. It's really like any time a politician claims welfare scams are out of control or big companies are evading tax or whatever, it's a political line sold to a certain audience, it isn't actually evidence of anything in itself.

But of course people can interpret it other ways. It's certainly true that the German Chancellor actually said Germany had no-go zones, and that's kind of a big deal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
No-go Zone's do not literally exist in the sense that Police, authorities, people of certain ethnic groups etc cannot and do not ever go there.

But there most certainly do exist areas which Police forces consider high risk (or more risky than most other places) for them or others to enter, for whatever reason, and so they only go there in force.


Agreed, but the problems certain media outlets play something of a two card trick between those two definitions. They create an impression of the existence of the first group, areas even police won't go, and when pushed for evidence they retreat to the latter definition of places where police recognise higher risk or even just areas where crime is higher than average. It's a deliberately dishonest ploy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/17 04:46:31


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