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The new FAQ doesn't allow stacking of multiple FNP benefits. This means Iron Hands don't even benefit their Venerable Dreadnoughts.

There was already almost no incentive to play Iron Hands in the first place. Their Strategem is bad, the Warlord Trait is bad, and the Tactic itself was already meh.

There isn't any point to the army whatsoever now.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The new FAQ doesn't allow stacking of multiple FNP benefits. This means Iron Hands don't even benefit their Venerable Dreadnoughts.

There was already almost no incentive to play Iron Hands in the first place. Their Strategem is bad, the Warlord Trait is bad, and the Tactic itself was already meh.

There isn't any point to the army whatsoever now.

Doesn't this FAQ literally only prevent the stacking of FNP on that one unit, and possibly stacking with a warlord trait? It's the slightest of slight nerfs.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The new FAQ doesn't allow stacking of multiple FNP benefits. This means Iron Hands don't even benefit their Venerable Dreadnoughts.

There was already almost no incentive to play Iron Hands in the first place. Their Strategem is bad, the Warlord Trait is bad, and the Tactic itself was already meh.

There isn't any point to the army whatsoever now.

Doesn't this FAQ literally only prevent the stacking of FNP on that one unit, and possibly stacking with a warlord trait? It's the slightest of slight nerfs.

Nope.
"Some units have abilities that allow them to ignore the damage suffered each time it loses a wound (e.g. Disgustingly
Resilient, The Flesh is Weak and Tenacious Survivor). If a model has more than one such ability, you can only use
one of those abilities each time the model loses a wound."

How is this not exactly what Halsey wrote?

Ushtarador wrote:
How is this not exactly what Halsey wrote?

Because it doesn't stack with the Venerable Dreads ability as well, which was the only real thing going for Iron Hands.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Ushtarador wrote:
How is this not exactly what Halsey wrote?

Because it doesn't stack with the Venerable Dreads ability as well, which was the only real thing going for Iron Hands.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:Doesn't this FAQ literally only prevent the stacking of FNP on that one unit, and possibly stacking with a warlord trait? It's the slightest of slight nerfs.

The "that one unit" is venerable dreadnoughts.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Ushtarador wrote:
How is this not exactly what Halsey wrote?

Because it doesn't stack with the Venerable Dreads ability as well, which was the only real thing going for Iron Hands.

Which is exactly what I wrote...

Except I disagree with the silliness that is 'My Venerable dreads are now 1/6th more likely to take wounds?!' ABANDON FACTION!

Do we need a poll for who got it worst?

Bharring wrote:
Do we need a poll for who got it worst?

Almost certainly.

Well I used to like squats so...

You should switch to Grey Knights. I heard they didn't even get the Smite nerf so it should be a great community to join ....

So the list of options worthy of being in the poll:

GK
BA
Vanilla Marines
Iron Hands (specific chapter)
Chaos Demons
CSM
Celestine
Ynnari
Corsairs
Orkz (because it can't have been good for Orkz - this is 40k!)

Bharring wrote:
So the list of options worthy of being in the poll:

GK
BA
Vanilla Marines
Iron Hands (specific chapter)
Chaos Demons
CSM
Celestine
Ynnari
Corsairs
Orkz (because it can't have been good for Orkz - this is 40k!)

I'm tilting my head at this list, is this sarcasm or?

Orkz being on the list was sarcasm. And pointing out that we just had a bunch of changes that may have actually helped Orkz, and it's not even their codex!

The others, I've seen complaints about how bad that particular thing got nerfed.

(I'm the only one who's complained about Corsairs, but I'm fairly sure they got it worst.)

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Ushtarador wrote:
How is this not exactly what Halsey wrote?

Because it doesn't stack with the Venerable Dreads ability as well, which was the only real thing going for Iron Hands.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:Doesn't this FAQ literally only prevent the stacking of FNP on that one unit, and possibly stacking with a warlord trait? It's the slightest of slight nerfs.

The "that one unit" is venerable dreadnoughts.

And Venerable Contemptors and Chaplain Dreads. Who now get 0 benefit from the Chapter Tactics. It was an unnecessary nerf for literally NO good reason.

You might want to move this to the Salt Containment thread. You aren't going to get much sympathy in the general population for something this corner case. I play Iron Hands and don't even consider it a nerf.

Two units lost a 1/6 save.








This makes it an utterly useless Chapter Tactic, I agree. /s

It feels 'unnecessary' until you're hitting things with 2x 5+++ saves, on top of their ordinary saves...

Very necessary change, as they specified this in many of the places they give out a +++, but not all the places.

IH just had 2 units and potentially an HQ that got marginally worse. But a super cheesy and annoying way to run some other factions that impacted the game much more got stopped. Net gain, but I feel bad for IH (but not as bad as I feel for GK or Corsairs).

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Two units lost a 1/6 save.








This makes it an utterly useless Chapter Tactic, I agree. /s

They lost literally an ability for a Chapter Tactic that was meh in the first place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bharring wrote:
It feels 'unnecessary' until you're hitting things with 2x 5+++ saves, on top of their ordinary saves...

Very necessary change, as they specified this in many of the places they give out a +++, but not all the places.

IH just had 2 units and potentially an HQ that got marginally worse. But a super cheesy and annoying way to run some other factions that impacted the game much more got stopped. Net gain, but I feel bad for IH (but not as bad as I feel for GK or Corsairs).

And that happened HOW often exactly that they needed to blanket hit everyone?

well that is one army i can remove from my todo list.

the fact that their dreads(venerable from gw and several others from FW) could get multiple wound save rolls was the only reason for me to make a dread heavy SM army.

This may seem like a minor deal to some, but the ven dread and warlord thing were basically the only synergies that existed for IH CTs. When you don't have much to start with, losing that little you do have hurts all the more.

Maybe now they'll change their ability to something a fair bit more useful.

I'd like to see them change the chapter tactic to provide a FNP, or to increase an existing FNP by (i.e. a 6+++ becomes a 5+++).

I'll still use Iron Hands. The chapter tactic in conjunction with techmarines means my dreadnoughts are still quite resilient. Ven dreads are good, but losing a stackable 6+ is not game-breaking.

If you're upset, just play Raven Guard. Strike from the Shadows got amazingly good now.

One of my favorite builds for CSM was an Iron Warriors Daemon Prince with Tenacious Survivor Warlord Trait (+1 Wound, 6+ FNP), the Fleshmetal Relic Armor (2+ Armor, heal a Wound every turn), Delightful Agonies Power (5+ FNP), and the Iron Within, Iron Without Strategem (6+ FNP).

Wish I woulda used that bad boy more often now

Iron Hands have never been competitive.

It’s a small nerf sure. But Iron Hands have very little to begin with. GW has pretty much ruined them this edition.

 Primark G wrote:
Iron Hands have never been competitive.

Did you just kinda forget about 6th and 7th edition? Like, completely?

Multiple FNP saves are just tedious and slow the game (though they are far from the worst culprit.). From a playability purpose I support this change. Obviously, IH need something to compensate. Personally I'd get rid of the FNP and give them +1T on all infantry and leave it at that.

CassianSol wrote:
Multiple FNP saves are just tedious and slow the game (though they are far from the worst culprit.). From a playability purpose I support this change. Obviously, IH need something to compensate. Personally I'd get rid of the FNP and give them +1T on all infantry and leave it at that.

+1 to the FNP. So that ven goes from 6+++ rerolled to 5+++. Bit better than before and also faster to roll.