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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Q: If a unit declares a charge against an enemy unit that is entirely on the upper level of a terrain feature such as a ruin, Sector Mechanicus structure, etc., but it cannot physically end its charge move within 1" of any models from that unit (either because there is not enough room to place the charging unit, or because the charging unit is unable to end its move on the upper levels of that terrain feature because of the expanded terrain rules for it – as with ruins, for example), does that charge fail? A: Yes.


This is a new addition to the FAQ for the CRB, but seems at odds with the rules in the book in other places. Specifically, these ones:

Ruins (pg 248)
Infantry are assume to be able to scale walls and traverse through windows, doors and portals readily. These models can therefore move through the floors and walls of a ruin without further impediment.


Wobbly Model Syndrome (pg 177)
In cases like this, we find it perfectly acceptable to leave the model in a safer position, as long as both players have agreed and know it's 'actual' location.


We already know that you don't require LoS to fight in the Fight Phase, so my question is this; how does this new addition to the FAQ, which doesn't actually touch either of the above rules, interact with fighting across multiple levels inside a ruin?

If the top floor is occupied entirely with the defending squad, such that there is no space for the attacker, can they still successfully charge? Considering that the attackers can pass/fight through the floor and can climb the walls, with wobbly model meaning that we don't need to precariously hook our models onto the wall somehow but still have them count as being there?

Presumably the line about 'expanded rules preventing you from ending movement on the upper levels' refers to monsters, cavalry and the like, but what about Infantry? The rules still appear to permit them to climb up and engage units on upper levels, but it's really quite poorly worded.


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




"not enough room to place the charging unit" means they have to be able to be placed (wobbly model not withstanding).

Bad call imo. Immunity to assault is very easy to achieve.

DFTT 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin






Captyn_Bob wrote:
"not enough room to place the charging unit" means they have to be able to be placed (wobbly model not withstanding).

Bad call imo. Immunity to assault is very easy to achieve.


Agree 100%. Locally we have a bunch of LOS blocking terrain, which is great, until someone plops a unit of scouts in a ring around the top. Now they are immune to CC unless you can land your entire unit in the middle (fat chance).

   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






The new ruling is in line with the previous rules. The WMS stipulated that the model was placed in a way that it was in danger of tipping over not that tit could not be placed all.

But yeah, the end results are sill awkward. They should just allow fighting in CC to one floor up or down from where you are.

   
Made in gb
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller





Makes camping upstairs in ruins rather OP.

i think a tournament rule will have to be that objective markers cannot be on scenery

TO of Death Before Dishonour - A Warhammer 40k Tournament with a focus on great battles between well painted, thematic armies on tables with full terrain.

Read the blog at:
https://deathbeforedishonour.co.uk/blog 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

So if I can place 1/4 of my base on the terrain, but not enough of my base for my model to balance, does that mean I can't assault?
   
Made in gb
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller





Yes, it does.

Units up in tight ledges will be very hard to assault as they can remove the models furthest from you when you shoot them!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/16 22:06:41


TO of Death Before Dishonour - A Warhammer 40k Tournament with a focus on great battles between well painted, thematic armies on tables with full terrain.

Read the blog at:
https://deathbeforedishonour.co.uk/blog 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






It might be worth investing in blue tack (or another sticky substance) to use on the bottom of your bases for melee units that you feel are going to have to traverse ruins.

This rule is stupid as all hell. I don't want to risk my (or my opponents) models, mashing them close together to try and get into combat and it makes no sense that a unit can become effectively immune to melee by sitting in a ruin.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It might be worth investing in blue tack (or another sticky substance) to use on the bottom of your bases for melee units that you feel are going to have to traverse ruins.

Clever. I like it.

Also might put one ork boy really unbalanced on his base so it stands on a corner instead of flat. We'll call him 'Da Clima'

But realistically, can you imagine anyone ever actually using this one part of the FAQ in game without being labeled a no-fun WAC ****?
   
Made in us
Steadfast Grey Hunter




 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It might be worth investing in blue tack (or another sticky substance) to use on the bottom of your bases for melee units that you feel are going to have to traverse ruins.

This rule is stupid as all hell. I don't want to risk my (or my opponents) models, mashing them close together to try and get into combat and it makes no sense that a unit can become effectively immune to melee by sitting in a ruin.


Yeah, it's a bad ruling, I can picture a bunch of ultramarines in their tree fort with a "No Bugs Allowed" sign.

Granted I have a magnet in each of my bases... can I just use a strong N52 on the other side of a wall to hold them there?
   
 
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