Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I've recently got back into 40k with and started up a Kult of speed/evil sunz orks. I'm not looking for a competitive list as i prefer to stick to the fluff of an army, which currently has Warboss on bike, big mek with shokk attack gun, 3 nobz on bike, 6 warbikers, 12 shoota boyz, 20 slugga boyz, 5 burnaz and a battle wagon which comes in at around 1,300pts.

For the next 200 i was looking to add a waz mek flyer amd either 20 gretchin ot make the shootas up to 20? And need zome tactics/advice on what would be best to get up to 2000 im thinking another 6 bikers and another flyer is prefreable

More boyz if you don't want to get shot off the board all the time in 1-2 turns. 30 boyz and several units for 2k.

Alas orks are in pretty bad shape ATM as they have boyz, stormboyz and kustom mega kannon that works. Kommandos used to work but new FAQ pretty much made them boyz except worse.

Bikes, vehicles etc all are pretty darn bad :-/ Well dakka jets are decent.

Good news is codex is close(ish) so that might help. I would hold up on major purchases until that hit. Don't buy more than you can paint in 3 months or so!

While I wouldn't paint the picture as black as tneva did, I agree on getting more boyz first. Even for a full mounted army, you should at least be able to field three units to get 5CP.

Other advice:
- Those 12 shoota boyz seem to be missing a trukk
- If you have burnas, you most likely have the bits for lootas from the same box still lying around. Combine them with some bodies from a boyz box to get yourself some lootas. The models for the orks are identical, not conversion skills needed.
- Don't build the Wazbom Blastajet, it will be severe disappointment. You can buy the kit though, it has all the parts for the other three planes, plus an additional sprue you can use to kitbash other things (for example, mek guns). You can then build the plane with all options for dakka jet, burna bommer and blitza bommer and just have it count as whatever you are fielding it as.

Well in the background the Evil Sons love vehicles, so I reckon fitting some rocket buggies into your list would be cool.

They are not the best atm but are pretty cheap and cheerful for flavour

 Jidmah wrote:
While I wouldn't paint the picture as black as tneva did, I agree on getting more boyz first. Even for a full mounted army, you should at least be able to field three units to get 5CP.

Other advice:
- Those 12 shoota boyz seem to be missing a trukk
- If you have burnas, you most likely have the bits for lootas from the same box still lying around. Combine them with some bodies from a boyz box to get yourself some lootas. The models for the orks are identical, not conversion skills needed.
- Don't build the Wazbom Blastajet, it will be severe disappointment. You can buy the kit though, it has all the parts for the other three planes, plus an additional sprue you can use to kitbash other things (for example, mek guns). You can then build the plane with all options for dakka jet, burna bommer and blitza bommer and just have it count as whatever you are fielding it as.

Shootas are missing more bodies. Trukk is going to be waste of points for shootas. Too expensive. If you really want to add trukk give one to tank bustas or burnas. Then at least the trukk's protection isn't for unit that's cheaper than trukk...You would be better off having double the boyz!

As for lootas would be better off waiting for codex before investing money for box of boyz. As is lootas are totally useless so why waste money on them? If codex helps yeah that's good idea(have 15 of them myself from when they were actually useful).

My advice for you is to buy and build what you think looks cool without too much regard for efficiency. Build efficient units - don't go throwing 50/50 shootas and sluggas or all power klaw nobs or whatever, but don't feel like your purchasing decisions have to be dictated by whats good now.

Orks haven't gotten their codex yet, and it's undoubtedly going to contain quite a lot of buffs for things that are not currently useful.

tneva82 wrote:
Shootas are missing more bodies. Trukk is going to be waste of points for shootas. Too expensive. If you really want to add trukk give one to tank bustas or burnas. Then at least the trukk's protection isn't for unit that's cheaper than trukk...You would be better off having double the boyz!

He is obviously building a kult of speed army and even more obviously not playing anything remotely close to competitive. If you are going to field 12 boyz, put them in a trukk. The trukk will serve his purpose when he has bought enough boxes of boyz to build a unit of tank bustas

As for lootas would be better off waiting for codex before investing money for box of boyz. As is lootas are totally useless so why waste money on them? If codex helps yeah that's good idea(have 15 of them myself from when they were actually useful).

Strong words from someone who is planning on using burnas. Those actually are a waste of money, as they utterly fail at both shooting and combat, while lootas can at least shoot and kill things. Not efficient as efficient as a KMK, but better than most units we have.
Also, when rules change, plastic stays the same. Not building those lootas is the bigger waste of money.

Lol didn't say i always put maximized units but at least burnas can hit stuff orks normally can't due to needing 7 to hit which is impossible. However faq also removed from them their biggest weakness which was range. 32" is enough to at least try since unit changed since i have models anyway from when they didn't suck

And not building them now doesn't waste money as it's free. Building costs money as he needs to buy boyz just for that when he's critically low on boyz. 32 boyz needs like tripple minimum.

If codex comes and helps lootas he can build them just as easily and for same price as now. No loss. Building them now can easily cost money and is even likely.

Their biggest weakness is that they don't do jack. There is literally nothing in the game they are good against.
d3 auto hits is worse than any space marine shooting a storm bolter, and even the d6 flamers in general don't see play in any army. The only things they can reliably kill are no more than half of their points, it gets worse if you add a transport.

Any model that has -2 to hit or more at least T5 and 3+, so even a 45 auto-hits won't be able kill it, which is the maximum a unit of brunas can hope to archive. And even at -2, the KMK is more point efficient than burnas.
Not to mention that all army-wide -1 traits cancel out if you are close enough to burn the model. Might as well shoot rokkits from the same distance.
-3 is so rare, it's not even worth thinking up a strategy for it.

So, unless you are really convinced that you want to spend 200+ point for a ~60% chance to kill a unit of rangers, there is no competitive reason to actually field a chinork with burnas.

 Jidmah wrote:

Not to mention that all army-wide -1 traits cancel out if you are close enough to burn the model. Might as well shoot rokkits from the same distance.

1-2 hits(needing 6+ due to advance) from rokkits aren't THAT scary either. 23.5 hits meanwhile does threaten many characters.

Burnas also kill more infantry than tank bustas in general(terminators maybe excluded). They kill more T4 3+ save guys than tank bustas would kill even if they auto wound and auto ignores saves(which they don't).

Not saying they are great but then again has anybody yet even tried? Burna's just got serious change so previous experience isn't telling all. I'm not convinced they can't be usable on fairly relaxed meta which doesn't field super competive armies. At least I'm not going to not bother to try since I happen to have the models anyway. Wouldn't be buying models for it but since it's case of pulling up models from box...I never play 2 games with same list anyway so I'm taking some non-optimal units anyway as orks don't have long list of competive options anyway.

I'm with Scotsman: buy what you think looks cool and work around its relative competitiveness. I run at least 9 bikes every game I play which is considered pretty universally to be a solid 'meh' to 'bad' decision. But who cares, I'm not trying to win a major event I'm trying to have fun with my buddies. Also if you roll 6s a lot any unit can be quite good

I would buy a Trukk next (its a really fun kit) then throw something scary in there, I have Nobz in one of mine and Tank bustas in another. Nobz kits are great fun too.

Just go with whatever you like the look of though man, forget competitiveness with Evil Sunz, we aren't there yet but hopefully then codex will change that.

Jacob26w wrote:
So I've recently got back into 40k with and started up a Kult of speed/evil sunz orks. I'm not looking for a competitive list as i prefer to stick to the fluff of an army, which currently has Warboss on bike, big mek with shokk attack gun, 3 nobz on bike, 6 warbikers, 12 shoota boyz, 20 slugga boyz, 5 burnaz and a battle wagon which comes in at around 1,300pts.

For the next 200 i was looking to add a waz mek flyer amd either 20 gretchin ot make the shootas up to 20? And need zome tactics/advice on what would be best to get up to 2000 im thinking another 6 bikers and another flyer is prefreable

Orks are fun to build and paint, focus on that but be prepared for a rough time on the tabletop. I would suggest some more boyz and some mek guns (lot of parts for costumization later on)

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Not to mention that all army-wide -1 traits cancel out if you are close enough to burn the model. Might as well shoot rokkits from the same distance.

1-2 hits(needing 6+ due to advance) from rokkits aren't THAT scary either.

Selective perception is selective.
You are not going to kill that flyer turn 1 with burnas, neither are rokkits. The difference is that your chinork is within 8" of the enemy army and dead next turn or at least has a model within 1". If the chinork falls back, the passengers may not shoot.
Every other turn, the chinork doesn't need to advance at all. Even in turn 1 you could just move normally and still fire your rokkits at a target 18" away. You could even deep strike the chinork turn 2 and unload vom 10" into whatever allaitoc or ravenguard thing you want gone, most likely killing it instantly. Meanwhile then burna chinork, which somehow survived the ordeal needs to chase whatever it was trying to kill for two more turns, hoping you don't roll a 1 for shots in any of them.
This the reason why we see neither burna wagons nor burna trukks this edition.

23.5 hits meanwhile does threaten many characters.

Which ones exactly? How many of those are worth throwing away 200+ points?
Oh, and don't add the chinork's skorcha to the numbers to make burnas seem better.
If you want to blow up characters, the dakka jet does that way better for less points, is harder to kill and can do it from a distance.

Burnas also kill more infantry than tank bustas in general(terminators maybe excluded). They kill more T4 3+ save guys than tank bustas would kill even if they auto wound and auto ignores saves(which they don't).

You're missing the point. Burnas SUCK at killing infantry. They also suck at killing bikes, vehicles, monsters, characters, fortifications, flyers, non-fliers, and gretchin. Just because some dedicated anti-tank unit is worse at killing something doesn't make burnas good.
d3 S4 hits with no AP at 8" range is not worth 14 points. Especially not if you can get 3 shoota boyz to do the same. Every other shooting option is vastly superior to them, including lootaz.

Not saying they are great but then again has anybody yet even tried? Burna's just got serious change so previous experience isn't telling all. I'm not convinced they can't be usable on fairly relaxed meta which doesn't field super competive armies.

Oh, believe me, I've tried. Nothing like driving a battlewagon with 20 burnas inside up to a unit of gaunts. In every previous editions those gaunts wound have been gone afterwards. In 8th? Nope, 5 survive and charge the wagon to keep it from shooting and disembarking for the rest of the game. So good!
After a total of 4 games of trying everything, burna wagons, trukks, even foot slogging 2x15, they went back to the case. They utterly failed at doing anything useful, even in perfect situations where they got the charge on space marines. I even tried using them as anti-air weaponry. There simply isn't a single thing they do well. Nob bikers and deff dreads are totally awesome in comparison.

At least I'm not going to not bother to try since I happen to have the models anyway. Wouldn't be buying models for it but since it's case of pulling up models from box...I never play 2 games with same list anyway so I'm taking some non-optimal units anyway as orks don't have long list of competive options anyway.

Feel free to play whatever you want. Just don't be a hypocrite about someone taking four boyz out of his box of 12 to build lootas he has around anyways. Unlike burnas, lootas at least manage to do their job, which is shooting multi-wound models from a distance.

 Jidmah wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Not to mention that all army-wide -1 traits cancel out if you are close enough to burn the model. Might as well shoot rokkits from the same distance.

1-2 hits(needing 6+ due to advance) from rokkits aren't THAT scary either.

Selective perception is selective.
You are not going to kill that flyer turn 1 with burnas, neither are rokkits. The difference is that your chinork is within 8" of the enemy army and dead next turn or at least has a model within 1". If the chinork falls back, the passengers may not shoot.

T4, W5, 3+ save. That's not that tough target. Even without deffguns that's 4.5 wounds in average. It's about 50-50 thus.

Who's btw talking about fliers?

You could even deep strike the chinork turn 2 and unload vom 10" into whatever allaitoc or ravenguard thing you want gone, most likely killing it instantly. Meanwhile then burna chinork, which somehow survived the ordeal needs to chase whatever it was trying to kill for two more turns, hoping you don't roll a 1 for shots in any of them.

If you deep strike be prepared you might not even be within 12" so 6+ to hit.

Oh, and don't add the chinork's skorcha to the numbers to make burnas seem better.

Why not? It's part of the unit. It's part of what's shooting. You don't take just one unit but whole package. Or do you not factor in advance+charge from warboss when thinking about units?

Face it 8th ed is game of combo's.

You're missing the point. Burnas SUCK at killing infantry. They also suck at killing bikes, vehicles, monsters, characters, fortifications, flyers, non-fliers, and gretchin. Just because some dedicated anti-tank unit is worse at killing something doesn't make burnas good.
d3 S4 hits with no AP at 8" range is not worth 14 points. Especially not if you can get 3 shoota boyz to do the same. Every other shooting option is vastly superior to them, including lootaz.

Better than tank bustas. And shoota boyz. Especially when you want something with huge reach. These burnas have 32" range.

After a total of 4 games of trying everything, burna wagons, trukks, even foot slogging 2x15, they went back to the case. They utterly failed at doing anything useful, even in perfect situations where they got the charge on space marines. I even tried using them as anti-air weaponry. There simply isn't a single thing they do well. Nob bikers and deff dreads are totally awesome in comparison.

You have already had 4 games with new lootas? doubtful. It's been only what 3.5 days...

Feel free to play whatever you want. Just don't be a hypocrite about someone taking four boyz out of his box of 12 to build lootas he has around anyways. Unlike burnas, lootas at least manage to do their job, which is shooting multi-wound models from a distance.

There's difference about taking models you already own and buying more models for something that a) is bad b) could just as well become worse in codex.

If he has money to burn sure but as it is to do so now costs money for sure while waiting for codex doesn't actually cost him anything. If lootas are good with codex he can build them now. Or what? You think GW plastics are some sort of weird magical plastic that will melt away if not used within X days of purchace? Lol. Those bits he will have when codex drops. If lootas are useful, build them. If not he can always use those bits elsewhere or sell(people still play older editions so odds are good he can find somebody who plays edition where lootas don't suck and wants to buy them). If he builds now he a) has to spend money b) could very likely end up with lousy unit with codex c) has lost those bits. All for unit that's 100% useless.

There's nothing of value lost by waiting the 2-3 months with only to lose by jumping the gun. It's not like he doesn't have plenty of other more pressing units to buy. Hell if he's building speed freak army lootas are also dead wrong option thematically so if he's building speed freak army he wouldn't be using lootas and if he's not building speed freak army those 12 boyz needs something more than trukk and is just what he ended up getting in some box.

Jacob26w wrote:
So I've recently got back into 40k with and started up a Kult of speed/evil sunz orks. I'm not looking for a competitive list as i prefer to stick to the fluff of an army, which currently has Warboss on bike, big mek with shokk attack gun, 3 nobz on bike, 6 warbikers, 12 shoota boyz, 20 slugga boyz, 5 burnaz and a battle wagon which comes in at around 1,300pts.

For the next 200 i was looking to add a waz mek flyer amd either 20 gretchin ot make the shootas up to 20? And need zome tactics/advice on what would be best to get up to 2000 im thinking another 6 bikers and another flyer is prefreable

I’m with you on the Evil Sunz / Speed Freaks approach! I’ve currently got a Trukk with Tank Bustas inside, six Warbikers, some Wartrakks and Deffkoptas and a Dakka jet. I feel like can never have enough bikers, and I’d like a Painboy on bike, Big Mek on bike with force field, and a Trukk to put some Burna Boys, plus an add cased deffrolla Battlewagon for some Boyz or Nobs.

I’d really recommend the Trukk and jet kits - the kits are fantastic, and lots of fun to build and paint.

Agree with a few other posters - buy the models that look cool and fit with how you want them to behave. If you’re playing against mates then hopefully they are of the same mind, in which case the lack of efficiency of the units shouldn’t really matter. For example, Deffkoptas look awesome and suit the feel of the army, despite costing a gazillion points each.

A fluffy cult of speed army can be quite decent in any meta that is not as competitve as tournaments.

Biker boss, big mek on bike with KFF, zhadsnark but also cheap warbosses or weirdboyz in a battle wagon are good HQs.

3+ units of boyz in trukks or BWs are also decent.

Then stormboyz are amazing and lone skorchas can be useful.

Tankbustas or nobz (even meganobz) in trukks work as well.

I'm not fond of the flyers but at least a couple of them are consiered okish at least.

With the models you have I'd add some tankbustas in a trukk and another trukk of boyz. I'd also ditch the SAG big mek since he doesn't fit the theme of the army. Burnas aren't exactly a kult of speed unit and they're also quite lackluster, but they can be embarked like other squads if you want them. Avoid biker nobz, bring two units of bikes instead and use those nobz as regular warbikers nobz. Use the third one as a second warboss or big mek on a bike, alternatively field 3x3 units of bikes, each squad lead by a nob. Maybe you can start with something like that:

Warboss on bike, pk
Big mek on bike, kff, killchoppa
12 boyz in a trukk
12 boyz in a trukk
20 boyz in a BW
4 warbikers
4 warbikers
7-10 tankbustas with bomb squigs in a trukk

It's about 1300-1350 points. With a couple of skorchas and the dakkajet you could reach 1500ish points. Maybe a second wagon with boyz+nobz and/or another trukk of bustas could complete the 2000 points list.

Strictly fluffy you need;
-Dakkajet
-Blitza Bomma
-Buggies
-Moar Bikes or Boyz in Red Trukkz

Stormboyz are sort of a Blood Axe vibe I thought. Battlewagonz are too slow unless it is red, any boyz on foot are out unless they are some Goff Boyz hitching a ride on an Evil Sunz trukk, a SAG mek wouldn't be able to keep up standing around shootin

 Rismonite wrote:
Strictly fluffy you need;
-Dakkajet
-Blitza Bomma
-Buggies
-Moar Bikes or Boyz in Red Trukkz

Stormboyz are sort of a Blood Axe vibe I thought. Battlewagonz are too slow unless it is red, any boyz on foot are out unless they are some Goff Boyz hitching a ride on an Evil Sunz trukk, a SAG mek wouldn't be able to keep up standing around shootin

Agree on the stormboyz and footslogging Mek being a no, but there should be a Mek on a bike- someone has to build and maintain all those machines! I kinda like a Bw with rolla tho, for a mad max big trukk feel.

It’s expensice in real world money, but I jut saw on the FAQthat the Chinork is now open topped. Feel like that fits in nicely now too.

Thanks, so with a few tweeks ive been working with,
HQ
Warboss bike PK - big mek on bike KFF PK - big mek SAG
FA
4 bikers nob pk - 4 bikers nob big choppa - wartrakk big shoot
Elite
Runtherd x2 - 3 nob bikerz 2 pk - 7 tank bustas nob PK, tank hammer x2 duel rokkit pistols - 5 burna -trukk
TROOP
20 slugga boys nob big choppa, kustom
12 shoota boys, big shoota nob rokkit shoota, trukk
12 shoota boys, big shoota nob kustom rokkit, trukk
20 gretchin
HS
Battle wagon, kannon, 4 big shoots, klaw
FLYERS
Dakka jet - dakka jet -blitza bomma

I know the SAG isnt too fluffy but i like him.

Any advice on how to run the list? Im gonna use the tank huntas in more of a close range AT with them and the burnaz in one trukk

Cheers