Switch Theme:

What does the Imperium think happened to Lion El'Jonson and Caliban?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord




Lake County, Illinois

So, after the Heresy Lion El'Jonson returns to Caliban. After which Caliban is gone and so is Lion El'Jonson. What happened is of course a big secret. So what did the other primarchs and other Imperial leadership think happened? I'm sure somebody must have noticed that a primarch and his homeworld just disappeared. How did they explain this without raising questions?
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Whatever the dark angels told them, something along the lines of “chaos attacked our home world and the lion sacrificed himself heroically”
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





In the Caliban trilogy, it's stated that DA neophytes are first told that the Lion died fighting Horus, and IIRC that battle destroyed Caliban, so I imagine that's the story they give everyone else. The advantage of having 10,000 years to make it all up is that no one is around to say first hand that you're wrong! Oh, hey, Bobby G...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/17 18:13:04


 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord




Lake County, Illinois

 frightnight wrote:
In the Caliban trilogy, it's stated that DA neophytes are first told that the Lion died fighting Horus, and IIRC that battle destroyed Caliban, so I imagine that's the story they give everyone else. The advantage of having 10,000 years to make it all up is that no one is around to say first hand that you're wrong! Oh, hey, Bobby G...


Sure, if you had the luxury of waiting 10,000 years to tell anyone about it. But most of the loyalist primarchs were still alive at the time. And they might want to know what happened to their brother. And they aren't really dumb enough to be tricked easily. And they know for a fact that he wasn't killed by Horus. So...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/17 19:52:32


 
   
Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

«By Horus» doesn't necessarily mean «by Horus in person», it might be by Horus like by the forces of Horus ?

   
Made in be
Dakka Veteran






I thought informing about it or anything of the true past and especially doubting the official version is considered heresy and that anyone proclaiming knowledge of the "truth" can expect a visit from the inquisition.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/17 21:13:01


 
   
Made in se
Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh






Reading, UK

In Leman Russ: The Great Wolf Leman mourns the loss of his brother primarch. The story he has been told is that he died during the battles of the Scouring.

No pity, no remorse, no shoes 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Albino Squirrel wrote:
 frightnight wrote:
In the Caliban trilogy, it's stated that DA neophytes are first told that the Lion died fighting Horus, and IIRC that battle destroyed Caliban, so I imagine that's the story they give everyone else. The advantage of having 10,000 years to make it all up is that no one is around to say first hand that you're wrong! Oh, hey, Bobby G...


Sure, if you had the luxury of waiting 10,000 years to tell anyone about it. But most of the loyalist primarchs were still alive at the time. And they might want to know what happened to their brother. And they aren't really dumb enough to be tricked easily. And they know for a fact that he wasn't killed by Horus. So...

Well, for the DA recruits they basically did.

For the Imperium at the time, the intimation was that the Dark Angels became very insular as they grappled with the whole thing, and had little contact with the galaxy as a whole. Within those limited contacts, they could tell any story they wanted, and since the other primarchs had their own things to deal with (creating the codex, driving the legions back into the warp, splitting into chapters, etc.) it's unlikely that the others would have been around to personally ask any of the DA about it. I mean, the fact that the whole planet blew up is a pretty worthy sign that Jonson went down swinging in an epic fashion on its own, it's not like they would've been told, "Uhhh, he died from poison or maybe a lucky bolt round...? Or something?" to make them think twice about it being in any way suspicious.
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





Florida

So the interesting thing now is, what does he tell everyone when he comes back?

But with the awful writing of GW main, I know it will be stupid or no-one will even question where he has been.

Even though Bobby G should punch him in his loins. "You were just napping this whole effing time?!"

SickSix's Silver Skull WIP thread
My Youtube Channel
JSF wrote:... this is really quite an audacious move by GW, throwing out any pretext that this is a game and that its customers exist to do anything other than buy their overpriced products for the sake of it. The naked arrogance, greed and contempt for their audience is shocking.
= Epic First Post.
 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




 SickSix wrote:
So the interesting thing now is, what does he tell everyone when he comes back?


"Hey guys, did I miss anything?"
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 SickSix wrote:
So the interesting thing now is, what does he tell everyone when he comes back?


"I was laid low into a coma by the fell powers and was being healed by an enigmatic alien species. You know how that's like, don't you brother? Anyway, have you met my buddy Cypher?"

Roboute's response was lost in the din of Inner Circle heads exploding.
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

Fake news...

6th Ed Codex has the Dark Angels' explanation centred around a warp storm claiming Caliban.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord




Lake County, Illinois

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Fake news...

6th Ed Codex has the Dark Angels' explanation centred around a warp storm claiming Caliban.


Ah, the old "lost in the warp" excuse. Same lie the Space Wolves used when Leman Russ went traitor, right?
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Fake news...

6th Ed Codex has the Dark Angels' explanation centred around a warp storm claiming Caliban.


I believe this is correct. If pressed I can go upstairs, dust off my 6th ed copy and confirm.

I know for a fact I read the explanation previously.

Although honestly, the way it's described in imperial fiction is just flatly hard to believe. For one thing, in the 8th ed codex it literally says that Azrael seriously contemplated attacking Guilliman's fleet (when the DA+ successors had just lost ~1000 marines) or fleeing since he thought he was coming to punish them (he was actually coming to drop off some Primaris marines). The Grey Knights are basically onto their gak. Other than that they are somehow successfully fooling the Inquisition, even though the Inquisition has opened up several inquiries about the DA's behavior. Somehow the Imperium really is just that dopey that they bought the warp storm hypothesis swallowing Caliban. I know, hard to believe. But technically true. It was the warp storm that destroyed Caliban.

Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. 
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

The best fake news has an element of truth, and the grim resolve to plug leaks...

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

Wasnt there a blurb in the sixth or seventh edition codex that says the Inquisition already knows, but lets the Dark Angels continue to think no one knows to ensure they fight harder?

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 frightnight wrote:
 SickSix wrote:
So the interesting thing now is, what does he tell everyone when he comes back?


"I was laid low into a coma by the fell powers and was being healed by an enigmatic alien species. You know how that's like, don't you brother? Anyway, have you met my buddy Cypher?"

Roboute's response was lost in the din of Inner Circle heads exploding.


Lol.
We spent all this time living, hiding, working in secret and mistrust for you to...

*collectively walk off for a strong drink wondering if they nerd to update their CV and find new jobs*

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator




Sleeping in the Rock

I believe the explanations given to people varies book to book, and likely varies depending on who they are trying to convince. Tell whatever lie they most want to hear sort of a thing. As a warp storm destroying Caliban and killing the Lion. And Horus and his traitors destroying Caliban and killing the Lion are both stories I've read. Though they are not necessarily mutually exclusive, if they were I'm not sure it would matter, since the Imperium is so vast and so rarely shares information between branches, it's probable that different people all have wildly different ideas of what happened and have no way of fact checking.

As for the inquisition knowing the truth, I'm not 100% sure either way. But many of them are absolutely aware of the Dark Angels skirting on legion building, but choose to ignore it as they have so far been loyal and are too valuable to throw away. Though this has led to a distrust that sees the Dark Angels very pure geneseed being used less than would be expected for the creation of new chapters. So I expect it's plausible that the Inquisition knows some of the truth of the fate of Caliban, but not certain. But why do anything? If those that remain are loyal, valuable and clean house by themselves, then it would be a waste to just get rid of them.

"In Warfare, preparation is the key. Determine that which your foe prizes the most. Then site your heavy weapons so that they overlook it. In this way, you may be quite sure that you shall never want for targets."
— Lion El'Jonson


"What I cannot crush with words I will crush with the tanks of the Imperial Guard!"
- Lord Commander Solar Macharius
 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Background
Go to: